Van's Air Force
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Picking a fuel injection system
- Thread starter gh6gh6
- Start date
Martin Sutter
Well Known Member
Picking a Fuel Injection System
After flying my carburetted 0-360 RV6 for over 2000hrs I am now flying my new RV7A with an IO-360M1 wich is fuel injected.
The first thing I noticed is that it takes a different routine to start it and I have not totally mastered that one yet. I have experienced four major backfirings at start-up due to using an improper procedure. The only casualty was my air filter, since I have an aluminium sump it was able to take the hit without damage. After talking with Bart of Aero Sport Power I have not experienced any more "shot gun blasts" on start up.
Once started the fuel injected engine runs much smoother and the EGT's are within a few degrees of each other during all operating parameters allowing me to run lean of peak. Rich of peak I can lean the fuel flow more agressively because I do not have to to stop leaning because the first cylinder peaks a 100 degrees before the others as is the case with my carburetted engine and therefore I burn less fuel at the same power setting I normally use.
The fuel injected engine is more expensive to buy and you need a more expensive boost pump. Operating procedures are a little more complex but overall it was the right choice for me. The smoother running and better fuel economy are a good trade off for me since I fly 150 to 200 hrs a year. My fuel injection system is the Precision Silver Hawk and so far I am very satisfied with it.
Martin Sutter (2400 RVhrs)
After flying my carburetted 0-360 RV6 for over 2000hrs I am now flying my new RV7A with an IO-360M1 wich is fuel injected.
The first thing I noticed is that it takes a different routine to start it and I have not totally mastered that one yet. I have experienced four major backfirings at start-up due to using an improper procedure. The only casualty was my air filter, since I have an aluminium sump it was able to take the hit without damage. After talking with Bart of Aero Sport Power I have not experienced any more "shot gun blasts" on start up.
Once started the fuel injected engine runs much smoother and the EGT's are within a few degrees of each other during all operating parameters allowing me to run lean of peak. Rich of peak I can lean the fuel flow more agressively because I do not have to to stop leaning because the first cylinder peaks a 100 degrees before the others as is the case with my carburetted engine and therefore I burn less fuel at the same power setting I normally use.
The fuel injected engine is more expensive to buy and you need a more expensive boost pump. Operating procedures are a little more complex but overall it was the right choice for me. The smoother running and better fuel economy are a good trade off for me since I fly 150 to 200 hrs a year. My fuel injection system is the Precision Silver Hawk and so far I am very satisfied with it.
Martin Sutter (2400 RVhrs)
Performance Airflow
The flying -6 I bought had Performance Airflow injection. I was a fan of carbs, but now like injection better.
Smooth, easy to lean and the engine doesn't cut off at the top of a loop.
Airflow also has custom restrictors so you can do the GAMI thing.
I put a .001 larger restrictor in #3 and cured it of being the hottest cylinder.
The flying -6 I bought had Performance Airflow injection. I was a fan of carbs, but now like injection better.
Smooth, easy to lean and the engine doesn't cut off at the top of a loop.
Airflow also has custom restrictors so you can do the GAMI thing.
I put a .001 larger restrictor in #3 and cured it of being the hottest cylinder.
AP Fuel Injection
Airflow performance has been good to me. Reliable, and predictable. Don Rivera has been great to work with. I enjoy engine tuning and optimization (expirementing!) that is not possible with a carb so it is a source of enjoyment. No experience with other FI other than flying rentals.
Airflow performance has been good to me. Reliable, and predictable. Don Rivera has been great to work with. I enjoy engine tuning and optimization (expirementing!) that is not possible with a carb so it is a source of enjoyment. No experience with other FI other than flying rentals.
dan
Well Known Member
Mostly from word of mouth recommendations that the AFP system kicked butt. I don't know if there's a huge difference from AFP to Bendix/Precision. I'm certainly no expert and I never ran "the other one" on my RV-7 to compare. What I like about AFP is Don Rivera (a very knowledgeable dude) and the way they can help you tweak your restrictors inexpensively, if need be, to balance your cylinders.gh6gh6 said:
The Lycoming parts catalog. There may be something on Sacramento Sky Ranch's web site, but maybe not. It's a very simple part that Van's actually calls out on the FWF drawings for the horizontal induction IO-360.gh6gh6 said:
NOTE...there are at least two styles...one that just dumps right out (onto crossover exhaust in our case, yikes!):
...and another that has a barbed fitting so you can install a hose (in my case, per plans, hose to a tube) and draw the dumped fluid away from the exhaust and out the back of the cowling:
Martin Sutter
Well Known Member
Picking a Fuel Injection System
In response to Dan's question I would like to add that I do have a sniffle valve installed. This leads me to another issue: Is it common for a little fuel (a spot about 2" in diameter) to pool on the floor after the airplane is parked? When I turn the engine off I kill it with a smooth pull on the mixture at about 1000rpm.
Martin Sutter (2400hrs RV time)
In response to Dan's question I would like to add that I do have a sniffle valve installed. This leads me to another issue: Is it common for a little fuel (a spot about 2" in diameter) to pool on the floor after the airplane is parked? When I turn the engine off I kill it with a smooth pull on the mixture at about 1000rpm.
Martin Sutter (2400hrs RV time)
Captain_John
Well Known Member
Stupid question here:
What exactly does the Sniffle Valve do?
CJ
What exactly does the Sniffle Valve do?
CJAllen Barrett
Well Known Member
The sniffle valve is a one way valve that allows pooled fuel to exit the plenum area of the sump. When there is manifold pressure, a little check ball gets sucked up to a seat and prevents an induction leak. it is normal for a few drop of fuel to exit the sniffle valve on shut down. The reason is the engine driven pump is still pumping as long as the engine is rotating. Even with the mixture at idle cut off, there is still a minute amount of fuel being pumped through the system. When the engine stops any fuel that has not made its way past the intake valve will migrate to the plenum chamber. Since there is no MP, the sniffle valve does it's job and the fuel drains.
It's amazing how much fuel it doesn't take to make about a 2 inch wet spot on the hanger floor.
Allen
It's amazing how much fuel it doesn't take to make about a 2 inch wet spot on the hanger floor.
Allen
dan
Well Known Member
Allen,Allen Barrett said:
I noticed the sniffle valve that you guys used on Marc Cook's IO-390-X. And you mention "check ball" here. This is different than the Lycoming part variants, which have a "wafer" or diaphragm (that's what mine has). I'm curious where you guys get that slick little sniffle valve that you used on Marc's engine?
Allen Barrett
Well Known Member
my last response must have been kicked off, so I'll just answer Dans 'q'. it is an Airflow Performance sniffle valve P/N 1090138. I have yet to see one of these valves malfunction, not so with the certified valves.
Allen
Allen
Dave
Yes I read through Dan's challenges. Not sure I want the hassle.
On the other hand I see on the Matronic's archives that some have found the Bendix injectors hard to impossible to balance for LOP Ops without going to Precision for help.
Decisions decisions. All part of the fun.
Thanks
Ian
Yes I read through Dan's challenges. Not sure I want the hassle.
On the other hand I see on the Matronic's archives that some have found the Bendix injectors hard to impossible to balance for LOP Ops without going to Precision for help.
Decisions decisions. All part of the fun.
Thanks
Ian
Which FI require return lines
On some FI systems, return lines are required back to a fuel tank. Is that all systems? Do some dead head at the distribution manifold? spider? (unsure of terminology being a sailor).
This would require making a decision before buttoning up the fuel tanks, correct?
On some FI systems, return lines are required back to a fuel tank. Is that all systems? Do some dead head at the distribution manifold? spider? (unsure of terminology being a sailor).
This would require making a decision before buttoning up the fuel tanks, correct?
I have the vertical servo on the IO 360 using the airflow performance pump. No return line is required. All of the plumbing is already installed on the pump and it does kind of have that plate of spaghetti look to it...but, all I had to do was hook up the IN and OUT. It works fine. I think that this is the pump that VAN's sells.
I am just learning here so I could be wrong but my understanding is the AFP and the Silver Hawk do not need return lines to the tank. They return to the pump but not the tank.
If I am wrong we will hea about it in short order.
I just read up on the new ECi FI system and it does require a return line to the tank and uses the Andair fuel selector valve.
Plumbing the return fitting and capping it like J Coloccia has done seems prudent to me.
If I am wrong we will hea about it in short order.
I just read up on the new ECi FI system and it does require a return line to the tank and uses the Andair fuel selector valve.
Plumbing the return fitting and capping it like J Coloccia has done seems prudent to me.
Fi
After owning an FI equiped AV, the thought of a mixer, was apauling, so FI it was. I purchased the Silver Hawk FI, and Van's pump kit. After all was said and done, I should have purchased it from Airflow Performance. Van's pump kit is AFP. AFP provided all the little odds and ends required to install on the -10.
As to the Silver Hawk system, it is an enbodiment of the Bendix RSA5. It does not required a return system. It is a very simple, very reliable, and proven system. As for FIs, it's simplicity, literately makes it bullet proof. Would be nice to have the automatic mixture unit as on the RSA5AB1. It would eliminate setting fuel mixture. Can't have everything.
T88
RV10
After owning an FI equiped AV, the thought of a mixer, was apauling, so FI it was. I purchased the Silver Hawk FI, and Van's pump kit. After all was said and done, I should have purchased it from Airflow Performance. Van's pump kit is AFP. AFP provided all the little odds and ends required to install on the -10.
As to the Silver Hawk system, it is an enbodiment of the Bendix RSA5. It does not required a return system. It is a very simple, very reliable, and proven system. As for FIs, it's simplicity, literately makes it bullet proof. Would be nice to have the automatic mixture unit as on the RSA5AB1. It would eliminate setting fuel mixture. Can't have everything.
T88
RV10
