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When to Paint, how much should it cost?

Sully73

Active Member
I am building an RV-4 in my home shop. I am a few months away from completion of the wings and fuselage.
Question: Should I paint, then do the final assembly and flight check or do the final assembly, fly it, then paint.

The big difference is the cost to paint. My friend runs a local auto paint shop (and has painted several airplanes) will paint it for $6-7 K. The local airport paint shop quoted $20-25K.

Thanks in advance
 
Paint

Most folks fly first then take the plane to a paint shop where fairings and controls are removed. When painting is done someone ,usually not the builder, reassembles the parts. The thought is that major adjustments may be needed after phase one and that there would be impossible matching to do

The reality in my opinion is that rarely do RVs need any major changes and that the wing to fuselage joint is faired by a narrow strip of aluminum and the rubber fillet if used. If painted prior to assembly that fairing in the wing joint can be trimmed after paint and assembly and the rough edge hidden by the rubber. If paint before assembly, the builder will install controls and fairings once for all.

Therefore I think painting before final assembly is a smart move. Others may disagree .
 
IMO you should fly the plane first before paint. Something might need a tweak or replacement during phase 1.

Plan on about 10k-12k for a basic 3 color paint job.
 
Good Question

This is a very good question.

I would really like to paint prior to final assembly, but that means transporting it to paint shop in a U-Haul.

So how many people did find enough changes needed during phase 1?
 
There are a dozen RV's at my home field. I think they were all painted before final assembly, and I do not remember any of them requiring paint damaging surgery following paint/assembly.

I'd paint before assembly.
 
This is a very good question.

I would really like to paint prior to final assembly, but that means transporting it to paint shop in a U-Haul.

So how many people did find enough changes needed during phase 1?
It can be done either way. It is a little more work to do it in pieces. One the very first RVs that I worked on came to the shop on a trailer. I asked if it would be better to fly it first and the reply was “it will be ok. I built it right” After the plane flew for the first time, the owner decided to tweak the trailing edge of an aileron. He tweeked just a little to much and had to build a new one.
 
I am building an RV-4 in my home shop. I am a few months away from completion of the wings and fuselage.
Question: Should I paint, then do the final assembly and flight check or do the final assembly, fly it, then paint.

The big difference is the cost to paint. My friend runs a local auto paint shop (and has painted several airplanes) will paint it for $6-7 K. The local airport paint shop quoted $20-25K.

Thanks in advance

Given that this is being done by an auto shop, take all the parts to him in the phases he can deal with prior to final assembly. No brainer to spend $300 in trailer rental to save $15,000. You don't want to fully assemble, do phase I and then rip it all to pieces and drive it to his shop. Different options when the painter is at an airport and has a hanger. I painted both of my planes and did them prior to final assembly; No regrets and no changes that required repaint. You can't really account for accidents or builders mistakes in this equation. If they happen, you deal with them. You can always bring another aileron to your buddy for paint, if required.

Larry
 
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5 homebuilts under my belt; all 5 painted in components prior to first flight and no rigging changes required. The RV-14 will be painted completely, and have all fairings and wheel pants on before first flight.

I have access to a large downdraft auto booth; it takes me a looong 3-day weekend to paint a RV sized plane.
 
Prep

For those who paint themselves or use an autobody shop, do you do the alodine prep and stuff, or just shot primer and go?
 
I did my own paint, prior to assembly. No regrets, not the best paint job but can't beat the cost of under $3000 Canadian.

Only caution I'd have with using an automotive paint shop is that they don't typically care about the weight that they are adding where we care a lot. If the shop can keep the weight as low as possible for good coverage, then why not?
 
Assembly after paint

Assembly after paint here - no issues. Also, I didn't have to re-do the weight and balance, and don't have to stop flying for weeks waiting for the paint shop.

If you had asked me before, I would have said fly before paint, but after my experience, I think paint before fly is a very good option. The only negative for me was that the paint shop was pretty far from my house, so flying there would have been more convenient and cheaper, but sounds like for you it's the opposite.
 
paint, then do the final assembly
is THE answer. You will save time and $$$$.
Even though u built a -4, meaning it was built and not merely assembled, if done to plans and manual, it will fly straight and level, and no major tweaking will be necessary.

This ain't no funky prototype of an unproven design... almost 11K flying RVs, more by the day :D
 
I painted mine before the first flight. No issues at all.

Mine was painted by an auto painter as well, but he is also a pilot with one certified and two EAB aircraft.

Your price seems reasonable. I had about $5k in materials alone, but I have a larger aircraft (RV-10).

Talk with your painter about alondine and primer prep. It’s going to depend on the type of paint you’re using and the painter’s preference. I suspect many will prefer bare aluminum.
 
Hi Jon. I think you will find that painting before final assembly will be easier if you intend to get it done off-airport. It also makes the components much more manageable to paint, as it allows you to get into all the inaccessible areas. I painted primarily for corrosion protection, so if you want to do this properly, then having the components off the aircraft makes this much easier. It also allows the painter to position the component the way they want them for ease of application. The other thing will be spray booth size.
I second the paint thickness concerns. I watched my film thickness very closely during my paint job, to keep weight to a minimum. Also ensure you check the control surface balances after the job is complete.
I painted relatively early. I'd finished the airframe and canopy, but didn't have the interior complete, avionics or engine in, but all of that came together relatively quickly. The final fiberglass pieces (cowl, wheel pants etc) were painted after everything was wrapped up.
Tom.
RV-7
 
Paint first

I built my -4 and painted everything before flight. I'm not a pro painter, but good enough ,so I did my own.I washed the all the parts using soap/water and scotchbrite for mechanical etch. I alodined all the surfaces using clean cheesecloth wipe on rinse off method.I shot PPG primer, then 2 coats of PPG Desothane liberated from a dayjob overstock. In the end, I have about $400 in prep and primer materials, and an all white plane. Im happy...12 years and not a scratch on it, no paint peeling off, ect. Any "auto painter" can easily do the paint in their booth. Many talk of the "Tweaks" and adjustments, but If your cowling fits and clearances are good ( be sure you have installed/removed the cowling several times WITH engine,prop,spinner and gear leg fairings in place). That is an area that you will goon up the paint if it isn't just right. When you assemble the plane, it is done. If you have the ability, put the wings on and use 4 "stove bolts(they arent a close tolerance fit) per side even if its out in the yard and get the rear spar drilled up to the correct wing incidence and make the flap rod cutouts so you don't need to re-work after paint. Also, the aileron push tubes at full travel can often interfere with the cut-outs in the fuselage , requiring the cut-outs to be enlarged. When you final assemble with paint, you don't want to have to pull off the wings, and the -4 is not the easiest to get the spar stubs in/out the first time. Get it done! The fun is about to start!
 
For those who paint themselves or use an autobody shop, do you do the alodine prep and stuff, or just shot primer and go?

two planes painted at home and no alodine here. I first scuff (maroon pad) with a water / dish soap solution until a break free condition then rinse (during the rinse phase you are check for ANY areas where water doen't fully adhere to the Al). Allow to fully dry and then scuff again dry immediately before primer and clean with wax grease remover. It is critical that primer goes on within a few hours after scuffing (less than 2 hours preferred). An auto painter that deals with 99% application on steel may not know or understand this, so push the issue with them. This issue is unique to Aluminum.

Epoxy primer with a proper prep will provide and equal level of corrossion resistance as alodine without the exposure to toxic chemicals. Remember, that stuff gets rinsed off with a hose and goes straight to the ground water after it rolls down your driveway.

Larry
 
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I can only think of one RV built near me that flew before painting. Most of the others were painted before they came to the airport, a few were painted in a shop on the airport.

I always cringe when I see a photo of an unpainted, but clearly planning on getting painted, RV that's just done it's first flight with the caption "congratulations on finishing your RV." So much can go wrong in disassembly, painting, and re-assembly. It's nowhere near finished. Don't get impatient, get it painted.

Also, consider how well your fibreglass parts (and cowl) are sealed. If you get a drop or two of oil on the outside of the cowl while pouring in a quart, can you remove it so the paint will stick? And if something *does* happen and you lose a quart over the side on one of those early, unpainted flights (say you do a roll and get some negative G, and the breather belts out a large amount), how well will you clean the oil out of the skin joints, around rivet heads, etc. before someone puts paint on it?
 
I did not have a place to do painting, so went the fly-phase I, then paint. Yes the price in in that range you mentioned. There was no paint shop on field and no auto/plane experienced either and no suitable place for me to do it. Yes, I have painted cars in a garage, and that was not an option.

If doing another plane, paint before assembly would seriously be pursued. The cost difference would be large enough to get any issues repaired to your perfection. The only issue might be paint color matching, as some paint colors are affected by the application technique.
 
Another thing to consider. The fuselage makes an awesome wing holder. The wing is held by just one end and at the perfect height.
 
I have to say I very much wish I had painted before flying. Sadly I have been flying over 5 years and it’s still bare. It would have been much easier to paint it before it was assembled.
 
Paint before final assy

I shot white in my garage, part by part, some parts in stages - I did the fuse in three sections. I did some metallic grey in larger accents over that. Vinyl over that for more color. I alodined before riveting ( and won’t again). About $2500 in paint materials. There are spots that make it a three to five foot paint job, but in the sun, the lightest pearl of the paint hides everything. I’ll do it the same way for the -8. My log suggests I have about 60 hours all told in paint, not including the FG prep done earlier.

My process was wash/degrease the alodined surface, wash primer, sealer, top coat. Shoot, clean gun, shoot, clean gun, shoot. No more than 30 minutes between coats. It’s proven super tough.

In the future I’m going to look at high quality DTM, which seems to be getting better every year.

If you’re shooting a base coat, esp white, choose one of the major car OE colors. From there you can get touch up paint from autozone. :)
 
Another thing to consider. The fuselage makes an awesome wing holder. The wing is held by just one end and at the perfect height.

Actually, it's much easier to paint the wings, horizontal & vertical stabs, feathers, etc, leading edge up than horizontal. Every booth, even the cleanest downdraft booths, have "stuff" that lands on the paint. The issue is minor and easiest to mitigate with the LE up
 
Actually, it's much easier to paint the wings, horizontal & vertical stabs, feathers, etc, leading edge up than horizontal. Every booth, even the cleanest downdraft booths, have "stuff" that lands on the paint. The issue is minor and easiest to mitigate with the LE up

I had my wings on a rotating stand and came to same conclusion, LE or TE up worked best.
 
For those who paint themselves or use an autobody shop, do you do the alodine prep and stuff, or just shot primer and go?

I painted mine in pieces in my garage at home. I did not use alodine. Instead, I used a DTM (direct to metal) epoxy primer from Eastwood, the car hotrod people. I confirmed with them that it is suitable for aluminum with no prep other than scuff and clean.

Then I used the rest of Eastwood's base coat clear coat system, their spray gun and their buffing products. It came out very nice.

I still haven't flown so I can't prove it durability but it sure looks nice.
 
Actually, it's much easier to paint the wings, horizontal & vertical stabs, feathers, etc, leading edge up than horizontal. Every booth, even the cleanest downdraft booths, have "stuff" that lands on the paint. The issue is minor and easiest to mitigate with the LE up
I guess I did it wrong over 300 times.
 
Thank You Everyone for the great information and advise. I appreciate your feedback and this Forum!
 
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For those who paint themselves or use an autobody shop, do you do the alodine prep and stuff, or just shot primer and go?

I’m SEM rattle canning everything that can’t be seen, in contact with other parts, and has been deburred/maroon scotchbrited. These parts are interior bits that don’t get painted.

The interior and exterior that get painted are getting Sherwin williams wash primered, primer, then epoxy painted. All before assembly since I can do it in my garage. The smaller pieces means I can conform to the 16 hour rule without having to rescuff stuff.
 
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