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Approach speeds

M5fly

M5fly

Well Known Member
Now that I'm instrument rated I'd like to use my -6A to stay current. I only have a KX-125 Nav/Com and GNC 250XL GPS, so while I can't actually fly IFR I can certainly use it to fly practice LOC, VOR, and LDA approaches with the VFR GPS or ForeFlight as my DME. So what approach speeds does everyone commonly use in the RV? We did 90kts in the 172 during training.

Any other tips for hand-flying the RV for this type of thing? I imagine you need to be much farther ahead of the plane in order to get slowed down to a reasonable speed prior to the IAF vs what I was used to in the 172.
 
You can legally fly IFR with that NAVCOM. You might not be able to file /G or legally use that GPS for enroute or approaches, but you can absolutely file and fly IFR with that NAVCOM if you meet the rest of the requirements.
 
bill.hutchison said:
You can legally fly IFR with that NAVCOM. You might not be able to file /G or legally use that GPS for enroute or approaches, but you can absolutely file and fly IFR with that NAVCOM if you meet the rest of the requirements.
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That's true, it just wouldn't be very useful without an IFR approved way to identify intersections/waypoints for approaches. About the only other way is getting vectors until below the clouds and then being cleared for the visual. I'd also need to install a clock and rate of turn indicator (which would be easy to do) if I wanted to use it for actual IFR.
 
M5fly said:
Now that I'm instrument rated I'd like to use my -6A to stay current. I only have a KX-125 Nav/Com and GNC 250XL GPS, so while I can't actually fly IFR I can certainly use it to fly practice LOC, VOR, and LDA approaches with the VFR GPS or ForeFlight as my DME. So what approach speeds does everyone commonly use in the RV? We did 90kts in the 172 during training.
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I am curious what approach speeds people fly with the RV9A?

Also, it seems my local approach no longer use time from IAF to determine missed approach point. Is this true throughout system or just my local airport?
 
It sounds like you have a bare minimum (or even less) of the required flight instruments, no backups; if so it is probably wise to avoid any real time in IMC.
To answer your original question: there is no one best speed. Going into KRNO with a jet behind you? Be prepared for ATC to ask for best possible forward speed. Hoping over to CA’s central valley in the winter? Be prepared for 1/2 mile visibility in fog, which means configured for landing well before DA(H), so maybe partial flaps and 75 kias. Practice various speeds/flap configurations, so you can do what’s need in various situations. Along the way you’ll decide what works best for you for ‘routine’ approaches.
 
PilotjohnS said:
Also, it seems my local approach no longer use time from IAF to determine missed approach point. Is this true throughout system or just my local airport?
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I’m sure you meant, “time from FAF...”. And yes, there are still VOR and LOC approaches (and NDB, if you can find one) that use time to determine the MAP.
 
I use 120 kts on practice approaches to keep the multiple approaches total elapsed time down, but would feel comfortable at 90 kts. The airplane is very stable on the ILS at 120 kts.
 
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M5fly said:
That's true, it just wouldn't be very useful without an IFR approved way to identify intersections/waypoints for approaches. About the only other way is getting vectors until below the clouds and then being cleared for the visual. I'd also need to install a clock and rate of turn indicator (which would be easy to do) if I wanted to use it for actual IFR.
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Pretty sure the GPS has a clock you can use....your transponder may also have one depending on the model.
 
BobTurner said:
It sounds like you have a bare minimum (or even less) of the required flight instruments, no backups; if so it is probably wise to avoid any real time in IMC.
To answer your original question: there is no one best speed. Going into KRNO with a jet behind you? Be prepared for ATC to ask for best possible forward speed. Hoping over to CA’s central valley in the winter? Be prepared for 1/2 mile visibility in fog, which means configured for landing well before DA(H), so maybe partial flaps and 75 kias. Practice various speeds/flap configurations, so you can do what’s need in various situations. Along the way you’ll decide what works best for you for ‘routine’ approaches.
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Completely agree, if I was to make it IFR I'd likely only use it as a tool for getting in and out of a coastal marine layer, or similar. Either way, mostly looking for the "ideal" starting point without considering other factors such as jet traffic, wx, etc. Sounds like 90-100 KIAS would be a good starting point.
 
PilotjohnS said:
I am curious what approach speeds people fly with the RV9A?
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I'm still dialing this in, but I bring it down to 85 KT with 5 degrees of flap before intercepting the glideslope. That way I can pull back to descent power when I've got the GS, add 10 more degrees of flap and settle in at about 75 KT. This leaves me with a configuration that can go either way easily at MDA. If I'm landing I'll drop the rest of the flaps and bring it back to 65 or lower. If I'm going missed, I'll ease the power in and climb at about 80 until I've got positive rate, retract flaps and speed up to something a little easier on my CHT.

I have a C/S prop, so I generally go to 19" coming down to the IAF/intercept altitude. As I join the FAC I'll pull back to 16" or so to get it down to 85 KT, add flaps and a little power back in to maintain that speed until GS capture. I find I have plenty of time from 10-11 NM back from the runway to slow to 85 from anything below 120. With that in mind, I can start the approach as fast as my cruise speed as long as I'm planning to have it below 120 by the time I turn it in on FAC.

This matches my speeds for a VFR circuit (pattern) where I plan 85 KT with flaps 5 abeam the numbers on downwind and flaps 15 and 75 KT on base.

EDIT: A few other responses came in while I was typing the above. The most important thing that I've had to learn with the speed is the ability to be able to manage my speed in any situation. I guess that experience will only add to this. What I describe above is the ideal setup that I've come up with. But being able to keep the speed up all the way down will be something to work on. Not a big deal if I'm planning to go missed, but I don't think I can plant it on the runway if I'm crossing the runway at 90 KT.
 
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I fly a 6 with fixed pitch prop. I keep it at 100 until DA. I’ve never had an issue dropping flaps and getting stopped in half the runway.
 
What speed do you carry over the threshold when VFR? Probably around 1.3 x Vs (or Vso). The approach speed should be a speed that you can easily and comfortably transition from after breaking out at minimums to crossing the threshold at 1.3 x Vso.
 
In my 7A with an IO360 and a fixed pitch prop, I am at IAF at 1700 RPM 2.5 deg pitch up and 90 Knots. I find 1450 RPM and pitch level (no flaps) gives me a 500 FPM decent rate.

I like flying the approach at 90 Knots because that is under the max flap extension speed of 95 Knots. So I have the option of dropping flaps and completing the landing or executing a go around without worrying about a flap over speed condition.
 
-7 IO360, CS prop. I find the stability better at 100kts (or more), but have recently tried a touch of flap and it seems that 1/2 -1 sec of flap allows 90kts with less wallowing. YMMV
 
M5fly said:
Completely agree, if I was to make it IFR I'd likely only use it as a tool for getting in and out of a coastal marine layer, or similar. Either way, mostly looking for the "ideal" starting point without considering other factors such as jet traffic, wx, etc. Sounds like 90-100 KIAS would be a good starting point.
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I fly my approaches in the 6 between 90 and 110 knots; faster if ATC requests it. I find that faster is easier to maintain the LOC and GS, especially on turbulent days. I will often start slowing to 90 knots at 1000' AGL. Some would say best to keep everything constant all the way down. I would not want to break out at 200' and 120 knots with no flaps on a 4000' runway though, so plan accordingly.

While some say stabilized approach, I say you need experience in managing everything on the way down. I have had some days where a lot of throttle movement and changes are required to keep a stable speed and if you have enough experience to deal with this, it should be no issue to slow from 110 to 90 and still stay on the GS. Best to pick some windier days for practice occasionally to keep your skills up.

If doing 90 kts and no flaps, I have no issues breaking out at 200' adding flaps and safely landing within 4000' of runway. Practice this VFR and you will get a feel for things. I can't imagine too many runways less than 4000' that have an ILS or GPS with 200' MDA.

Larry
 
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Pilot8 said:
I use 120 kts on practice approaches to keep the multiple approaches total elapsed time down, but would feel comfortable at 90 kts. The airplane is very stable on the ILS at 120 kts.
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Same here, if it's clean weather and I'm flying practice approaches I'll generally run in the 110-120 knots range to play nice with traffic. If it's in actual conditions and fairly low, I target 90 knots.
 
This is great info, thanks to all. Since the RV goes exactly where you point it, it seems like staying on GS would be a little easier than a Cessna. Of course, I won't be able to try precision approaches until I get something that will give me vertical guidance. This will just keep me from getting rusty without spending a fortune on rentals with IFR capability. One of these days I'd like to have dual G5's with a GNC 355.
 
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