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Any Cross Canada Flight Planning Tips?

Flying Canuck

Well Known Member
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I'm planning a trip for mid March from my home in Red Deer, Alberta to the east coast, Summerside, PEI. First off I'm well aware that the weather may make this not possible - I'm prepared to postpone the trip to coincide with Canadian summer, that 2 week period in July.

I'm doing my early flight planning and intend to take 2 days to cross eastbound, overnight in Wawa, ON. I'm keeping the length of day in mind and steering clear of any night landings at unfamiliar airports. My return flight would be spread over 3 days since I'm more likely to be against the wind. Actual travel dates are flexible within 2 or 3 days.

I'll be filing flight plans, getting radar services - particularly in the 90% over remote land, carrying simple tools, survival gear and supplies and have the ability to do my own tie downs. I will call ahead to verify fuel and parking at my planned stops.

My current route with stops is

Eastbound Day 1 - Red Deer, AB -> Yorkton, SK -> Dryden, ON -> Wawa, ON
Day 2 - Wawa, ON -> La Tuque, PQ -> Summerside, PE

Westbound Day 1 - Summerside, PE -> Sherbrooke, PQ -> Kingston, ON (family stop)
Day 2 - Kingston, ON -> Wawa, ON -> Dryden, ON -> Morden, MB
Day 3 - Morden, MB -> Swift Current, SK -> Red Deer, AB

Legs are generally under 3 hours and none look to be more than 2/3 of a tank of fuel. Weather may change these routes. Any suggestions for different stops?

Ultimately, my question for the experienced Canada crossers out there, what's something you wish you knew before crossing or wish you'd done differently?
 
A friend just flew a similar route to Quebec in his helicopter. He raved about Steinbach. I'd look into Steinbach instead of Morden.
 
wawa

Suggest if weather is good do not STOP in wawa. Many a vfr pilot has been trapped there for days and days due to unique weather. When we flew back from bc we hit hope, red deer, moose jaw etc
Wawa is a pretty spot but just one of those places that turns IFR a LOT and for long stretches. Enjoy your travels.
 
And this is exactly why I started this thread. Wawa is right on the lake, so that makes sense. I'll look at the northern stops. Problem there is I'm not sure how long of a day I can handle, don't want to push too hard especially in an area that airports and civilization are scarce.

Steinbach looks pretty good.

Of course I could look at crossing south of the border, but that's a whole other set of issues. I'd imagine the midwest is more hospitable than northern Ontario and Quebec though.
 
I?m one of those pilots that got stuck in Wawa, after two day we back tracked to Sault st Marie for better weather and was able to move forward the next day. There isn?t much to keep you occupied in Wawa , could not get a rental car there either.
 
I picked up my 4 in Medicine Hat and flew it back to CNC3 Ontario in mid May a few years ago. Got as far as Dryden the first day (in no hurry) avoiding a few snow squalls around Kenora. Spent 3 days in Dryden waiting for the weather in the Marathon/Wawa areas to clear (800' ceilings and freezing rain). Not even a movie theatre in Dryden. Once the weather cleared, on the way home, I got fuel in Marathon at the card lock pumps, stretched a bit and kept going.

I totally agree with your idea of 2-3 hour legs. You can get pretty stiff, especially if it is cold in the plane, as it was in my new to me 4.

That was my first long cross country. One thing I learned was to watch the time changes as you go. I didn't account for it being 2 hrs later and almost got caught in the dark when I got to Dryden. Lesson learned!

Have fun!

Al
 
Claude, sounds like a fun trip if mother nature cooperates , only thing I might add to what's been said is don't be ironclad to your stops or your route, since sometimes it's advantageous to go several hundred miles out of your way to pick up favourable winds and weather , just last year I had a fantastic view of downtown Indianapolis on my way to sun& fun in Lakeland FL,
On this length of trip I would definitely have an EAPIS on file So as to make filing in and out of the US to take advantage of winds , WX and often times less expensive fuel , plus our friends south of the boarder often have courtesy cars available for the asking !
Have a fun trip
 
Please consider taking the US route, either south of superior or around Chicago. It will not add much, if any, miles to your trip and it is a lot safer. There are a bunch of airports to chose from in the states. Heck you can cross back into Canada at Windsor and stay at our place on our farm strip. We are 1.5nm. north of CYQS. From there it is a beautiful flight along the shore of Toronto, Lake Ontario and then following the St.Lawerence. Highly recommended.
If you are interested call me at 519-281-1369 and I will talk you through the US and Canadian customs procedures. No big deal, there are good agents on both sides of the border.
 
Tom, you make a lot of sense here, especially considering the lousy weather across the continent this month. I drool all over those many airports all over the US route - sharp contrast to northern Ontario where you spend most of your time without an airport in an hour's range. I played with a route south of Superior, re-entering at Sudbury. Avoids the isolated north and works out to an extra hour and a small amount more fuel - which I'm fairly sure filling the tank on the other side of the border a few times will more than make up for. The peace of mind is worth a lot more than anything else.

The border crossing logistics are a small hurdle, but I ordered my decal this afternoon with express shipment. I'll need to arrange a few things like cell service and ForeFlight coverage, but those won't be too difficult. In addition to the airport count, the more southern latitudes should give me better weather too - I hope.

I think I understand the basics of the border crossing - eAFIS, prior notice to customs at the Airport of Entry, stay in your plane and wait for the customs agents, cross on a flight plan and in contact with ATC. What I'd like to see is something that highlights the differences in flying south of the border, radio procedures in particular. I'm going to dive into the internet and see if I can find a primer, but really I have one question. In Canada we're on 126.7 enroute (or with center/approach etc. for flight following). Who do you talk to in the US? I keep seeing videos where ATC says "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved." If you aren't talking to someone for flight following, who are you talking to when you aren't at an airport? Is the a frequency that pilots give position reports on?

Now the other thing I need to do before leaving is finish installing my wheel fairings and get enough testing in to know what to expect for cross country performance. Enough with this winter stuff, I've had no flying weather here for more than a month.
 
Claude,
When you are transferred to a US controller ask them for flight following. That should be all that is necessary. If you just enter US airspace, call the nearest facility and ask. Look on your charts for a center frequency or use the nearest feature on GPS or iPad app.

Funny, I like flying in Canada and find controllers there helpful.

Jim Butcher
 
Another day, another plan. Each time I end up further south. As it looks now, my cross Canada trip only has about 3.5 hours in Canadian airspace eastbound.

Eastbound
Day 1 - 7 hours: Red Deer, AB to Willington, ND to clear customs
-- to Morris, IL for the night (fuel stops in ND and MN)
Day 2 - 7.5 hours: Morris, IL to Fredericton, NB to clear customs (fuel stops in PA and NH)
-- to Summerside, PE

Westbound
Day 1 - 4.5 hours: Summerside to Kingston, ON (fuel stop in PQ)
Day 2 - 8 hours: Kingston, ON to Port Huron, MI to clear customs (skirt Toronto to the north)
-- to Aberdeen, SD for the night (fuel stops in IL and MN)
Day 3 - 6 hours: Aberdeen, SD to Lethbridge, AB to clear customs (fuel stop in MT)
-- to Red Deer, AB

Based on historical weather, it's a little less than 15 hours east and a little over 18 hours west. Actually not a lot longer than staying in Canada, less than 2 hours more each way. And this leaves me a whole pile of options should the weather strike in addition to keeping me away from the Great Lakes weather effects for much of the trip.

Of course I'm not committing to this trip until the day before so I can have the best weather picture possible. I've also got a return flight to an airport 2 hours away planned for Monday so I can get some confidence in my range and cruise performance now that I have all of my wheel and gear fairings installed.

If I keep moving my plan south each day, I should be connecting through the Bahamas by the end of the week.
 
Claude
Sounds like a great trip plan! We did virtually the same trip in our first 7A, oh so many years ago. You remind us that we should again head east.

You hadn?t mentioned it in your border crossing preparations, don?t forget to apply for the annual border sticker from DTOPS. And allot significant time when entering your first eapis web submission, that website is not the easiest to work through.

Cheers
 
You hadn?t mentioned it in your border crossing preparations, don?t forget to apply for the annual border sticker from DTOPS. And allot significant time when entering your first eapis web submission, that website is not the easiest to work through.

Cheers

I did order my sticker this past Wednesday and paid for the express shipping so hope that arrives in time. I've already setup my account for eAPIS, yes it's a bit clumsy. I just need to remember our passports and the other paperwork that I don't normally carry.
 
The number of your sticker should be with your proof of invoice. This will satisfy the border agents.

That's good to know. All I see on there is my account number and order number, but I'll certainly bring this along if I don't get the sticker. It clearly states that I paid for my sticker.

Thanks Tom.
 
As Tom says, just your receipt is fine. That's what we did last summer.

Port Huron is a good place to clear customs. The agents come from the nearby bridge, so you may have to wait in your plane. It's not too obvious and often no one monitors unicom, but customs will meet you at the east most building on the ramp. Sort of adjacent to the threshold of runway 10.

Have a great trip!

Jim Butcher
 
Hi Claude, whatever routes you choose, do not stop in Thunderbay if you do not want to pay an arm and a leg for fuel. Paid $65 ramp fee plus the most expensive avgas in Canada last summer.

Enjoy

Michel
 
Port Huron is a good place to clear customs. The agents come from the nearby bridge, so you may have to wait in your plane. It's not too obvious and often no one monitors unicom, but customs will meet you at the east most building on the ramp. Sort of adjacent to the threshold of runway 10.

Have a great trip!

Jim Butcher

I would recommend that you NOT go to Port Huron to clear US Customs. As is pointed out above the agents come from the bridge and in my experience they are usually grumpy and late.
It has been several years now since I last cleared there so it may have gotten better. Avoid Port Huron if you can and go to Saginaw Mi. instead (KMBS) there the Custom agents are much friendlier and always on time.

Enjoy your trip, I plan to fly from Kitchener to Vancouver Island in mid August.
 
My trip is not happening next week as hoped, weather just doesn't look like it's going to be worth dodging. My next open dates are early July, hope that's better.

Thanks for the Port Huron report. Saginaw is a bit out of the way, Flint is better, any experience there?
 
customs

Detroit city airport or pontiac michigan are good. Have done both dozens of times with good results. Just remember do not exit plane before they come out to you or they get all crazy and you are in for serious attitude. They will walk around your plane with geigercounter or whatever its called scanning for nuclear signature. Fast and easy.

Funny 95% of US airports you better not get out....but in Fort Pierce florida, you sit in your plane for 30 minutes......they dont come out and the fuel guy finally comes over and says....you have to get out and go in.... funny but not so much. A simple sign or an agent just stepping out of the door and waving to you would be nice.
 
No to KISN

I would suggest that you avoid Williston KISN. I cleared there last year on way to SnF and got charged ramp fee from FBO despite filling up with more than 75 gallons of fuel. Good thing was it was a Saturday and they have a weekend discount!
Going to try and clear in Minot KMOT this year and hopefully have better experience.
Just a side note....I have cleared at Great Falls,MT KGTF over 10 times and never a issue in case you wanted make a nice easy 2 hour flight and have the customs experience behind you.
If you want to chat more Im over here in Rocky Mountain House CYRM
 
Must be something new at Williston, or they were having a bad day. I?ve cleared there many times, customs agents always friendly there. But I don?t usually pick up fuel there, too expensive. I find most ports of entry airports fuel pricing higher than airstrips near by so usually clear there, than hop over to the next airport enroute & fill up. One time fuel cost difference worked out to near $40 for a fill up, so was well worth adding 20 minutes to my travel time. Check the fuel pricing websites before flight planning, a small diversion could make a big difference.
 
Must be something new at Williston, or they were having a bad day. I?ve cleared there many times, customs agents always friendly there. But I don?t usually pick up fuel there, too expensive. I find most ports of entry airports fuel pricing higher than airstrips near by so usually clear there, than hop over to the next airport enroute & fill up. One time fuel cost difference worked out to near $40 for a fill up, so was well worth adding 20 minutes to my travel time. Check the fuel pricing websites before flight planning, a small diversion could make a big difference.

Yes Customs was Ok. He must of been lonely & wanted to visit too long 😬
Yes the fees came from the FBO. Crazy. I fueled up but didn?t use any services,not even the washroom, & they charged me $35. Doesn?t make sense when I bought fuel. When I questioned it they said i was getting the cheaper weekend rate. What a scam
 
My trip is officially deferred now, the weather east of the Great Lakes just doesn't excite me. I saw the fuel prices at KISN and already planned to not fuel there. I was just going to hop east another 45 minutes and fill up at Garrison, ND. I do understand that the custom reporting point at KISN is on the Signature ramp, but I wouldn't get any services from them.

I will be taking a trip next week just because it would be a shame not to go anywhere on my vacation days. Not sure where I'm going, but it will probably be south via Great Falls and remaining east of the cumulus granite.

Wayne, we met a couple of years back on the Skywings ramp in Red Deer. I was admiring your 7. I think you had brought a nephew up for some flight training. I've done a couple of touch and gos at YRM, great place to fly.
 
You have a great memory Claude. Yes I remember meeting you as well now that you have put it in context.
Just an idea for your vacation flight.....after clearing customs at Great Falls or Helena, head south thru St.George,UT or Cedar City then make a short 1 hour flight over the Grand Canyon & land at Sedona (SEZ). Great restaurant at Sedona & good fuel prices. Spectacular scenery
Just a thought.
If you need more info on that area email me.
Fly safe & enjoy
 
Grand Canyon and Sedona are on my must do list, but I'm not quite ready to tackle the mountains. I'm looking at taking a mountain orientation course with Bluegoose Aviation in Montana in May to get that experience. Until then, I'll fly over (solo - only have 1 place O2), but not through.

My current planned trip is down to Denver along the east side of the Rockies, returning a little further east, flying by Badlands, Mount Rushmore, and Devils Tower. Should be good and scenic.

Anyone with "must see" stops/flybys along that route? I think we'll check out the Denver Air and Space museum, but nothing else planned.
 
You don't need the decal, it's just an annual entry user fee for entering the US. However, it's the same (or nearly the same) price as a single entry. You order the decal through CBP's DTOPS website, but order early. I ordered 3-1/2 weeks ago, paid for express shipping and still haven't seen mine. I'm counting on the receipt (which says "not a receipt") to prove that I ordered the decal to make it so I don't have to pay the entry fee. Of course if I get the decal on Monday, before I leave on Tuesday, I can use it.

I'm not aware of anything similar required for entering Canada, but if you are stopping in Canada on the way up, I'm sure you'll need to cover the US entry fee when you re-enter in Alaska.
 
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