What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

angle valve oil cooling

[email protected]

Well Known Member
there sure is a lot of discussion on oil cooling... given the high temps reported from many angle valve 360 and 390 installs and reading many oil cooling adventures i have gone down the path of using a larger oil cooler with flow control for the feed air. vans has a nice sheet metal plenum frame for the -10 that mounts to the firewall that is set up for the 20006a 13 row cooler. fitting it to my -7 is close but the parts will fit within the mount and so far appear to be relatively conflict free. i will be fitting 4" scat or sceet tubing from the baffle, over the top of the mount and down to the sheet metal box plenum... it looks like it will end up being about 18". to gain a bit of extra duct space at the entry i have lopped off the bottom block on the transducer manifold (not in the photos).

img3057y.jpg


as positioned the cooler will fit through the engine mount and can be rotated into position after rounding the mounting flange edges... it is tight and requires patience but it does fit, at least with the fuel supply hose from the pump disconnected.

img3053r.jpg


as i have the assembly taped to the firewall, the left magneto can come straight out about 2 inches before it will need to be free of gear restriction... i have not yet pulled the magneto... how far out does it have to be perfectly inline for removal and installation? i can get a bit more if needed but the overall placement is best here. once free from gears i expect that it can slew slightly and it will clear fine.

i will keep the thread posted with notable install progress.
 
Not to bee too FaceBookie but....

I like it, the installation looks very professional and well done.:cool:
 
Looks good...

...but be prepared to block at least some of it off in the winter. I have a standard Van's supplied oil cooler mounted on the LH rear baffle wall of my YO-360-A1A per the plans. With temperatures only as low as 40F here in the north east the oil temp struggled to get up to 140F with the oil cooler fully exposed to the air flow.

Jim Sharkey
 
cooler

I have the standard cooler on th lh rear baffle on my angle valve 360 and it provides alot of cooling. Have not had the temps over 203 F and with the temps around freezing yesterday, running at 23 sq and 100 rich of peak my oil temp never got to 180......looks like i need to start closing it off for the winter to get the temps back up. This engine has just over 50 hrs on it, the first 25 hrs it was running much warmer but has settled down now that it has broke in.
 
Stephen,
It's a good thing you are using a large cooler, because your installation is far from ideal in an aerodynamic sense. The duct you created forces the air to make a 90 degree turn into the cooler in a VERY small distance/space. The duct will cause the incoming air to become turbulent, not a good thing for heat transfer. Longer, gradually tapering ducts are the ideal. Of course, the amount or lack of available space often compromises the duct size and shape. That said, one should always strive to make the least tortured path for the air that is possible.
From an aerodynamic standpoint, mounting the cooler horizontally would allow the air to to make a straight approach to the cooler. The exit air would also be pointed straight down towards the cowl exit. I think a lot of builders run into oil cooling issues because they do not take the aerodynamics of the path the air must take to get to the cooler into account. Just my opinion and worth what you paid for it. Hopefully, the large size will overcome this shortcoming.
Charlie Kuss
 
Last edited:
No need to be elaborate...

I have an IO-360-a1b6d engine and I have the el cheapo oil cooler from Van's mounted directly to the rear of the baffle just like Mark did it in the pictures on his website. We basically have the same engine. No issues. I forgot the model number but I use the cheaper oil cooler from Vans that's still rated for 200 hp engines. Highest reading I've ever recorded or noticed is probably around 210 after a long, steep climb in the middle of summer. 170 to 180 is what it reads 99 percent of the time. Use thick angle to keep the cooler from cracking the baffle material back there.

http://rv8bldr.tripod.com/the_engine.html
 
Lucky - if you come across the model num,ber of the cooler please post it. I'm collecting info on what coolers are being used on what engines and how successful they are.

Also, where do you live? What OAT do you think you werre seeing when you saw 210 on the long climb?

Good to hear your installation is working well.
 
I was going to go that route too, but had a second battery there so it was not possible. However, with the space available there it seems like a sound option. I've had issues with the standard baffles cracking around the oil cooler, even with reinforcement gussets.

Several people have told me that managing the flow of air both in and out of the cooler is important. Some people have even built fiberglass ducting just for that purpose. It's on the to-do list. :rolleyes:

I'd be surprised if you need to block that air vent off. Seems the -390s run the oil hot and the CHTs cool. But that's not scientific data, just anecdotal.
 
oil cooler for angle valve engines

Here's how I did mine.
On the RV-8, the motor mount tubes make the use of Van's RV-10 mount hard to fit - everything was in the way.

But a very slight redesign that changed the angle of the cooler a little bit more downward worked great. I have a 20006a cooler, and the cooler mount plenum is supplied by 3.5" scat. Some people say that 3" is too small. Many find that 4" supplies so much air that the oil cooler needs to be covered part way. So I compromised and used 3.5". I also made a 'throttle valve' in the flange on the baffle where the scat attaches, so I can adjust the flow with a cockpit control.

100_1802a.jpg


I get oil temps of 210F on long climbs on hot days. At 8500ft cruise 24 sq'ed, it drops to 185F.
There are some that criticize the design of the firewall plenum, but the wedge shape actually does a very good job of evenly distributing air flow through the face of the cooler. The 90 degree turn that occurs inside the plenum is at VERY LOW flow velocity, and the losses are insignificant. That's why we use plenums for things like this. (and engine cooling too!)
I would like to have the oil cooler flow exit more vertically, and I may put a curved diffuser on the outlet eventually, but the key thing for me was matching the angles of the motor mount tubes.
 
Last edited:
... I also made a 'throttle valve' in the flange on the baffle where the scat attaches, so I can adjust the flow with a cockpit control.
....


isn't there a thermostat that controls the oil flow to the cooler?
won't that maintain/control the oil temperature?
 
isn't there a thermostat that controls the oil flow to the cooler?
won't that maintain/control the oil temperature?

Yes but it doesn't close down completely so you still need to block the oil cooler in really cold regions.
 
Partial oil temp control with Vernatherm

The internal "thermostat" to control oil temp is called a Vernatherm, and it basically just provides a bypass route for the oil, so it isn't forced to go through the cooler. But apparently a moderate amount of oil always does still circulate through the cooler, because many folks find that the oil stays too cool, especially in winter in the north. So people end up covering up a portion of the cooler, or making some kind of control to limit how much cooling air runs through the cooler.
 
as i have the assembly taped to the firewall, the left magneto can come straight out about 2 inches before it will need to be free of gear restriction... i have not yet pulled the magneto... how far out does it have to be perfectly inline for removal and installation? i can get a bit more if needed but the overall placement is best here. once free from gears i expect that it can slew slightly and it will clear fine.

I don't think anybody addressed your question about the mag. Take the harness off (3 torx screws) and you'll get even more wiggle room. You should have no problem getting that mag off...assuming the oil cooler hoses don't end up interfering (worth planning that now).

But don't take my word for it. Just take the mag off now to make sure you don't have a conflict later. And don't be afraid to take it off...now's the time to learn about mag timing. You'll want to become an expert at it at some point anyway...why not now? (Ignore me if you're already uber-mag-expert)
 
update on progress

most conflicts have been resolved. i have been able to use standard vans lengths for the oil lines and pressure sensors. no way to fit the oil cooler through the engine mount without removing the left magneto. with everything mounted it looks like i will have excellent access to the oil filter and magneto. i am just about ready to commit to drilling the firewall.

oilcoolerprogress.jpg

the oil supply to the cooler needs a 90 fitting, the 45 on the return is fine... with a slightly longer line i would use a straight fitting.

4inchsupply.jpg

i am not sure just where i will cut into the back of the baffle yet... i think that i will wait until after the cowling is fitted up. the inline airflow control control arm looks like it will have an easy clean run well out of the way.

transducerview.jpg

with the transducer block rotated there is about 1/2" of clearance and all of the braided stainless is well clear.
 
Back
Top