Frugal Glass Panel?

OK...so I am going to go glass to convert my steam system to glass IFR.

What's the best and most frugal way of making my ship a glass IFR ship?

I currently have:
- GTR200 comm
- Garim G5 (not installed, just ordered) to replace steam
- Trio EZ-pilot

I was thinking:
1) Garmin g3x (used non-touch)
2) WAAS GPS.... what would you suggest? garmin 625? 430w?
3) another Nav/Comm?
4) VOR head?

I am open and prefer to go used due to cost savings.

Thanks,
D

I am in the process of planning an IFR upgrade my panel, which is based on a GRT Sport SX. GRT has some excellent products, so definitely check them up and they can steer you in the right direction.

I also have a used Dynon D10 ($500 at the time) as a backup instrument, with it's own backup battery. You could probably find a D10A on the used market very affordably if you wanted a backup unit.

I am currently torn between adding a Val Nav2000 ($1300) so I can at least shoot the occasional ILS, or sucking it up and going with either a GPS400W or GTN625. I already have the tray for a 400W mounted.

If you already have a reliable Comm radio, and don't need/want a Nav radio, a GPS400W paired with your EFIS is all you need. You can find them used for under $6k. But, if you are going to spring for a new G3X, you can get a new GTN625 for the same or less than a used 400W as a part of their special package deal. Personally, this drives me nuts because I would buy a GTN625 tomorrow for $5500, but since I'm not also buying a G3X, I can't. And I'm not going to pay $8-9k for one. Maybe I can find somebody buying a G3X who doesn't want a GTN625...

Lastly, I don't know if you have an autopilot or not, but I am in the process of installing that now, before adding any IFR upgrades.

Chris

You Didn't Say Anthing about Comm, so Assuming that's Covered...

Stick with the 625-the ground based stuff will likely soon be a thing of the past for GA. Add a 345 transponder that will make you 2020 compliant and allow weather and traffic to show on the G3X. Add in a heated pitot, a backup portable GPS, a two axis AP, and you've got a very solid platform.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

"...best and most frugal..." is a classic contradiction in terms! Terry's suggestions are more the former.
Do you need ADSB-out (Phila or NYC class B, or over 10,000'?)? What kind of shape is your transponder in? If you have a good mode C transponder, consider the Echo UAT. If you need a new transponder, look at the Trig TT22.
Older non-WAAS gps' are cheap, but then by law you need a VOR. If my home field had an ILS I'd consider this. (Look at a used SL-30, still the best nav receiver ever built. No vor head, pretty much any efis will display the data). The downside is that these gps boxes are getting old; if nav-data support goes away, they become worthless. I would bite the expensive bullet and go for a WAAS gps (and a $400 handheld VOR, and make sure I could use it if the gps failed, to get into my alternate). Unfortunately used prices for a 400W are still pretty high, and you also have to subscribe to database updates. Good news is the 400W can do double-duty, serving as the approved gps source for either the Echo or TT22 ADSB-out.
Does Trio make a vertical module you can add to your existing autopilot? Or can a new Trio Pro head drive your existing servo? The GRT HX integrates nicely with the Trio Pro, for what that's worth. I think the HX's are starting to show up on the used market, as people upgrade to bigger HXr units. Everyone likes what they have, I'm a GRT fan.

dmat said:

OK...so I am going to go glass to convert my steam system to glass IFR.

What's the best and most frugal way of making my ship a glass IFR ship?

I currently have:
- GTR200 comm
- Garim G5 (not installed, just ordered) to replace steam
- Trio EZ-pilot

I was thinking:
1) Garmin g3x (used non-touch)
2) WAAS GPS.... what would you suggest? garmin 625? 430w?
3) another Nav/Comm?
4) VOR head?

I am open and prefer to go used due to cost savings.

Thanks,
D

Click to expand...

Hello D,

It is hard to beat a G3X system, but since you have ordered a G5 and are thinking along those lines, you could also consider something like this.



Something else to consider is a big GDU 37X or GDU 4XX display mounted in front of the pilot alongside the G5 instruments. These displays will automatically receive the flight plan or procedure, including all curved paths and holding patterns, from the GNS/GTN unit over RS-232 and give you a bigger and more conveniently located display that can supplement the GNS/GTN display in the radio stack.

The GDU can also connect to a wide variety of ADS-B and SXM traffic/weather receivers (GTX 345, GDL 51/51R/52/52R, GDL 39/39R) and provide that powerful capability as well. The GDU 37X has 3 RS-232 ports and the GDU 4XX displays have 6 RS-232 ports to provide an almost unlimited capability to interface with important devices.



The new V4.00 G5 software that will be out soon even supports dual navigators (with source select provided on the G5) so in this example the GDU 470 could be GPS1 and the GTN 625 (for example) could be GPS2 and either could be used to fly and couple to the optional autopilot.

Thanks,
Steve

g3xpert,
The Garmin part numbers and letters are like a foreign language. A newbie has no idea which components are required. It would be helpful to those shopping for avionics if there was a list of part numbers with a brief description and price for each. Ideal would be, say, four lists with a total price for each. For example:
Complete deluxe IFR system.
Minimum IFR system.
Deluxe VFR system with traffic and weather displayed.
Minimum VFR system.
Thanks

AMEN Joe...AMEN!

g3xpert said:

Hello D,

It is hard to beat a G3X system, but since you have ordered a G5 and are thinking along those lines, you could also consider something like this.

Something else to consider is a big GDU 37X or GDU 4XX display mounted in front of the pilot alongside the G5 instruments. These displays will automatically receive the flight plan or procedure, including all curved paths and holding patterns, from the GNS/GTN unit over RS-232 and give you a bigger and more conveniently located display that can supplement the GNS/GTN display in the radio stack.

The GDU can also connect to a wide variety of ADS-B and SXM traffic/weather receivers (GTX 345, GDL 51/51R/52/52R, GDL 39/39R) and provide that powerful capability as well. The GDU 37X has 3 RS-232 ports and the GDU 4XX displays have 6 RS-232 ports to provide an almost unlimited capability to interface with important devices.

The new V4.00 G5 software that will be out soon even supports dual navigators (with source select provided on the G5) so in this example the GDU 470 could be GPS1 and the GTN 625 (for example) could be GPS2 and either could be used to fly and couple to the optional autopilot.

Thanks,
Steve

Click to expand...

Impressive presentation.

Mich48041 said:

g3xpert,
The Garmin part numbers and letters are like a foreign language. A newbie has no idea which components are required. It would be helpful to those shopping for avionics if there was a list of part numbers with a brief description and price for each. Ideal would be, say, four lists with a total price for each. For example:
Complete deluxe IFR system.
Minimum IFR system.
Deluxe VFR system with traffic and weather displayed.
Minimum VFR system.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Joe if you want to go this route and install it yourself to save money, this is going to take research on your part. There is quite a bit of legwork involved. Otherwise drop it off at a shop, tell them what you want, then pick it up and pay the bill in a week.

If you want to see different systems look in the g3x install manual and it shows how to wire up the systems and kind of what is involved. Aircraft spruce has the prices listed out for all of the systems and allows you to build what you want.

I do installs of g3x systems on the side and I'm covered up for a few months after I get back from deployment. It supports my flying habit and gives other people an option to get glass installed at a fraction of the big dealers. Look around in your area and ask around as I'm sure there's many more like me out there that can lead you down the right path if you aren't willing to do the research on your own.

Hey Timber,

No need to jump on Joe. This was a thread started by myself and if you want to jump on anyone, feel free to jump on me.

But I will say, Joe made a good point, it would make it easy for me if the garmin dealer who posted to give me a rundown as it would make my decision easier and would probably lean me towards purchasing. it's all about customer service.

Timberwolf said:

Joe if you want to go this route and install it yourself to save money, this is going to take research on your part. There is quite a bit of legwork involved. Otherwise drop it off at a shop, tell them what you want, then pick it up and pay the bill in a week.

If you want to see different systems look in the g3x install manual and it shows how to wire up the systems and kind of what is involved. Aircraft spruce has the prices listed out for all of the systems and allows you to build what you want.

I do installs of g3x systems on the side and I'm covered up for a few months after I get back from deployment. It supports my flying habit and gives other people an option to get glass installed at a fraction of the big dealers. Look around in your area and ask around as I'm sure there's many more like me out there that can lead you down the right path if you aren't willing to do the research on your own.

Click to expand...

Really? Is that how you make major purchases? Just drop your [car, boat,
house, etc] off at a dealer, tell them to do what they think best, and you'll write a check for whatever they want to charge? (Oh, and you think you'd get it back in a week?)

Boy, do I have a bridge for you....

dmat said:

Hey Timber,

No need to jump on Joe. This was a thread started by myself and if you want to jump on anyone, feel free to jump on me.

But I will say, Joe made a good point, it would make it easy for me if the garmin dealer who posted to give me a rundown as it would make my decision easier and would probably lean me towards purchasing. it's all about customer service.

Click to expand...

For general information on pricing and part numbers, one good reference would be our experimental pricing guide (linked from Garmin.com/experimental). It will help walk you through step by step to build a G3X/G3X Touch system but is also a helpful reference for pricing on standalone products like radios, audio panels, G5, etc.

If you have any questions and want to work with us directly, feel free to contact us at [email protected] or the 1-866 number below.

Regards,
Brian

Through observation over the years, I've realized that there's a characteristic of human behavior I've named 'center of the universe syndrome'.

Example: Me: "I'm new in these parts, and I'm trying to find the hardware store."
Old time resident: "No problem. Just go down past Joe's land, and take a left where Fred's old barn used to be. You can't miss it."

LRU
GSU
GMU
GTP
GEA
And of course,
FOB


;-)

cost,time, fun and usage.

We went through this for a long term gain over what we were used to setting behind. As an old steam gage driver, I had to think long and hard about teaching an old dog new tricks. After a lot of digging, I found that it was worth the time and money to go for it and do it all myself. There are a few very good systems out there and I don't want to take sides. I found it to be a very good learning experience to do it all alone. It is nice to know your system inside and out once you have it up and working. It also makes it easy to diagnose problems while on the move. We chose to keep it simple and light, but IFR if we were to need it down the road. The support you can get from Garmin and the other makers these days is over and above the call. The manuals are all on line and updated free and very often these days. Soft-wear is updated and easy to install. It will take a little time to go over and over the plans and ask a few questions, but you can do it by yourself and end up with a good system.
We have an auto pilot (305) a G3X touch a 16 Wat. 255 nav-com and a marker beacon in a 340 audio panel along with ADS-B receiver installed. We have enough extra room now in a small panel (RV-8) to add a 650, 400, 625 or so for GPS approaches and to add a G 5 if we want. You can buy it used and peace at a time, the extra fuel money you save will take you a lot of places. Don't be afraid to go for it, even old dogs can learn even if it takes a little longer. Just 2 cents from this point of view. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888

rv7charlie said:

Really? Is that how you make major purchases? Just drop your [car, boat,
house, etc] off at a dealer, tell them to do what they think best, and you'll write a check for whatever they want to charge? (Oh, and you think you'd get it back in a week?)

Boy, do I have a bridge for you....

Click to expand...

Absolutely not. You're missing the point. If you're not going to do the legwork to familiarize yourself then you are at the mercy of someone else. There's so many different resources out there but it requires a little bit of effort to educate yourself on what systems do, how they interact, and what it would take to fulfill YOUR particular needs.

In this case the OP seems to have a grasp and a decent start. The way I read it is he wants to know how best to proceed to give him the ability to have a basic glass panel that is still able to get him out of a bind for Instrument work if needed.

Mich48041 said:

g3xpert,
The Garmin part numbers and letters are like a foreign language. A newbie has no idea which components are required. It would be helpful to those shopping for avionics if there was a list of part numbers with a brief description and price for each. Ideal would be, say, four lists with a total price for each. For example:
Complete deluxe IFR system.
Minimum IFR system.
Deluxe VFR system with traffic and weather displayed.
Minimum VFR system.
Thanks

Click to expand...

Always amazed to see pilots that struggle with acronyms and abbreviations, yet pilot an aircraft in the national airspace system under IFR

bkthomps said:

Always amazed to see pilots that struggle with acronyms and abbreviations, yet pilot an aircraft in the national airspace system under IFR

Click to expand...

See post #13. If you're not an MD, how many medical acronyms are you familiar with? Not a Lawyer? How many legal acronyms?

With hardware, many model numbers have nothing to do with the hardware's function. That's the problem with lists/charts/etc with no description included.

The factory rep [edit: or a current user] knows what each # refers to, so everybody else does, too: Center of the Universe principle. ;-)

bkthomps said:

Always amazed to see pilots that struggle with acronyms and abbreviations, yet pilot an aircraft in the national airspace system under IFR

Click to expand...

Try flying an Airbus. Then you'll realise what "struggling with acronyms and abbreviations" really means.

bkthomps said:

Always amazed to see pilots that struggle with acronyms and abbreviations, yet pilot an aircraft in the national airspace system under IFR

Click to expand...

You don't need a pilots license to buy an RV kit, or start building and planning it for that matter.

I am not a pilot yet. Notice I said "yet".

I do appreciate thorough explanations that most give on this forum. It really helps to flatten the learning curve.

rackley16 said:

You don't need a pilots license to buy an RV kit, or start building and planning it for that matter.

I am not a pilot yet. Notice I said "yet".

I do appreciate thorough explanations that most give on this forum. It really helps to flatten the learning curve.

Click to expand...

my comment wasn't directed at you- and congrats to you, that's AWESOME, welcome aboard and enjoy the ride