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Can I log the time in a friend's RV-9A?

R

ron sterba

Well Known Member
Im just several months from firing up my RV9A. I have flown right seat with the owners in their RV9As. In all cases I got to fly the 9's in cruise, downwind and base legs.is this time logable as PIC in a RV9A? Was wondering if this time could be used toward transition time reqiuired by insurance companys for my RV9A?

Thanks
Ron in Oregon.
 
ron sterba said:
Im just several months from firing up my RV9A. I have flown right seat with the owners in their RV9As. In all cases I got to fly the 9's in cruise, downwind and base legs.is this time logable as PIC in a RV9A? Was wondering if this time could be used toward transition time reqiuired by insurance companys for my RV9A?

Thanks
Ron in Oregon.
Click to expand...

I think you could log the time in your log book as PIC during the portion of the flight you were acting as Sole Manipulator of Controls. I bet your insurance company wants the other pilot to have certain credentials in order for the time to count towards your transition training. Check with the insurance company to see what they require of the transition training pilot.
 
As long as you are otherwise qualified to fly the aircraft, you may log that portion of the flight that you are sole manipulator of the controls.
 
5years ago, for insurance, it was 5 hours of instruction or ten hours total in type. I still recommend some dual time with an instructor.
 
Just curious about the "dual" or "transition training" requirement I keep hearing about. Is this only if you have hull insurance? I have never been required by any insurance company to have any transition or dual for the Rocket, RV, or even as a near zero time TW pilot back when I bought the Hiperbipe. I have also only carried liability insurance for all my airplanes.
 
Falcon wanted a cfi signoff for liability only for my RV4. I could not find a cfi so just started flying without insurance. after 14 hours(around there) they still would not give me a policy without cfi signoff (this was all US Specialty as the underwriter). I told falcon to go pound sand, and they billed me anyway. I should add that they did cover my ferry pilot for his 40 minutes in the airplane, so I guess they deserve to be paid for that.

Went to nationair with my 14 hours and they gave me the standard liability policy.

This was an rv4, and was this past march.
 
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You can log the PIC time if you are otherwise qualified, but you'll have to ask your insurance company the other part of the question.

I am carrying liability and hull, and my insurance company wanted 5 hrs in type from an approved instructor. They had a list, it's the list of our well known RV instructors. I drove to Dallas and did training in an RV-7A, which made my insurance company satisfied.

I would recommend anyone flying an 9/A with a fixed pitch prop for the first time to try really hard to get some landings in the same type of aircraft with an instructor. After flying the usual 172s and Cherokees, and even the RV-7A, there's a significant difference in how the 9 behaves when you take out the power. It takes a while to learn how to slow down AND descend at the same time.
I practiced go-arounds a lot my first 50 hours in the 9A.
 
Just to be clear, to log the time you must be 'rated', that is, you have a private or commercial certificate that says 'airplane single engine land'; and be the sole manipulator of the controls during that time. That's it. No TW endorsement is needed if it's a 9 instead of a 9A. Of course you cannot be THE PIC in that case, but you can log it as PIC time. One of the most confusing regs there is.

Insurance companies set their own requirements, which change all the time, depending on however they're feeling that day.

Finally, Falcon and Nationair are brokers, not insurance companies. It is their job to act as your representative. In principle they both have access to all the insurance companies, so in this case it sounds like Falcon didn't do their job very well. However, as to being paid, the fine print in virtually all aviation insurance contracts talks about 'earned premium schedule'. This means that the moment you say 'yes' you are obligated to pay a certain amount. If you cancel one day later you will get a partial refund but a lot less than 364/365. It is not pro rated.
 
Well then I will log the time!

I guess the easiest was the cruise and turns about a point were a learning curve to establish that horizon/cowl gap. It's a one finger airplane in cruise and nothing like the thousand hour in the sky Hawk. Well thanks everyone for your advise,,,,,,! And transition training should go well. Has anyone thought of installing speed brakes like the ones on the Lansairs.

Thanks
Ron in Oregon
 
Speed brakes are not needed on RVs. They just add weight and complexity.

RVs are not at all difficult to slow down. It just takes a small learning curve.
 
Jeremy, What a FUN phase of flight! Does anyone do the slip on a regular basis in the 9A? Is it a good speed reducer?

Ron
 
ron sterba said:
Jeremy, What a FUN phase of flight! Does anyone do the slip on a regular basis in the 9A? Is it a good speed reducer?

Ron
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I slip occasionally. I wouldn't say it reduces speed, the plane will in fact speed up if you let the nose down. But it will add drag and steepen the angle of descent.
What's working best for me is to keep the nose high, looking for about 60 knots on final. The plane will finally slow down and descend. Slip or S-turn as required. Power is at idle for most landings.
Power off stall speed with full flaps for my plane is 42 knots, so 1.3Vso is 55 knots. Speeds like that or lower are required to have any hope of being close to the quoted landing distance, and would be necessary for any real short field purposes.
The hard part for me was that transition training taught me to keep 90 mph on final (more appropriate for a RV-7A, even then still too fast). The instructor was being very conservative.
 
chipf said:
I slip occasionally. I wouldn't say it reduces speed, the plane will in fact speed up if you let the nose down. But it will add drag and steepen the angle of descent.
What's working best for me is to keep the nose high, looking for about 60 knots on final. The plane will finally slow down and descend...
Click to expand...

High AoA is an effective speed brake on the 9. There is a fairly long thread concerning the -9 landing technique, and this one is discussed heavily. I sometimes bring the nose up right on the burble and the airplane comes down like a freight elevator. IIRC, this was considered borderline reckless by some here, but it works for me.
 
ron sterba said:
Jeremy, What a FUN phase of flight! Does anyone do the slip on a regular basis in the 9A? Is it a good speed reducer?

Ron
Click to expand...
Not a -9A but a -9, and yes, I slip mine regularly!

As ToolBuilder said, the landing technique has been discussed at length.

I get my FP RV-9 slowed down before the pattern, drop in all the flaps abeam my touchdown point and trim for 60 kts (heavy) and 55 kts solo/light.

Once established at that speed, I fly the entire pattern w/o touching the trim or flaps. Strong winds, crosswinds, whatever are all flown the same way. Expect that I may use 60 kts, regardless of the loading.

Then I can use power for distance and pitch for speed. Simple as that.

(Yes, I have landed in very strong crosswinds with full flaps, like 35 kts direct crosswind, in my taildragger -9 using the above technique. The -9 is just a great flying plane!)
 
I've 400+ hours in RVs but only had a small amount of RV-9A time when I bought mine. I did two landings with the owner before I actually paid for it, and the landings went quite well, so I knew I was safe... as long as I acknowledged my limitations in the new plane. After 20 or so landings, and getting the idle speed adjusted back down to where it belongs, I'm now relatively proficient in the RV-9A. However, there were tricks for doing things like keeping the cylinder head temperatures under control on climbout (I do climbouts at 120 knots, traffic pattern at 65).

As far as traffic patterns go, time in other RVs is of little benefit when transitioning the the RV-9A (no opinion on RV-12 time). The -9A with a fixed pitch prop doesn't come down very steeply. Like other planes, the -9A is pitch sensitive in the flare, so fingertips and finesse are the order of the day.

I was unable to find a RV-9A instructor, and have not applied for an LODA to give dual in mine (I may or may not), but would be happy to chat with you on the phone if you're interested. And don't forget that the EAA Flight Advisor program (I'm one) is established to help new owners' first flights in new (to them) airplanes.
 
Ron,

I am based in Salem now. If you want to do some flying message me. You can log all the time, including the landings. I can sign your log book.

I slip my -9 all the time. It's not nearly as effective as other types of airplanes I have flown but it gets the job done.
 
Welcome HOME TONY!

Oh my Gosh! You are back home! Yes I'll take you up on that flying of course and we now have 8 RVs based at Salem. 5 grampa/gramma RV 9As, one RV 3,4, &. 12. Be glad to show you around.

Ron in Oregon. Aka

I am based in Salem now. If you want to do some flying message me. You can log all the time, including the landings. I can sign your log book.

I slip my -9 all the time. It's not nearly as effective as other types of airplanes I have flown but it gets the job done.[/QUOTE]
 
Thanks Ron. It's great to be in Salem. My wife grew up there and I am from Washington so we feel "home". Oregon is such an amazing place to fly. I can't wait to hook up with the local crowd. Let's do some flying next week. I will message you later.
 
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