Van's Air Force
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Tech counselor etiquette
- Thread starter OrenAir
- Start date
BillL
Well Known Member
Special procedure?
Not particularly, just ask.
While is is good to have them come look and paper helps with your DAR, go to EAA.org and look at what to expect and not to expect from the TC. They are mostly to see if you are following the plans and quality looks safe, not necessarily "good". I'm sure some are more talkative than others, but they don't usually provide advice on mods and such.
Not particularly, just ask.
While is is good to have them come look and paper helps with your DAR, go to EAA.org and look at what to expect and not to expect from the TC. They are mostly to see if you are following the plans and quality looks safe, not necessarily "good". I'm sure some are more talkative than others, but they don't usually provide advice on mods and such.
BrianDC
Well Known Member
We have a few Tech counselors in this area. I had Lee Ragsdale take a look at my project twice now (his info is on the EAA site as well as the EAA Chapter 186 site).
Basically I sent an e-mail asking if he had some time to come over and look at my project (including details of what I was building / what stage I was at). Based on his availability and mine, we came up with an agreeable time for him to come over. As far as prep work, I basically cleaned up my shop a bit so he could get access to my work.
After looking your work over and generally talking about your progress he provided a write-up for my records. I look at these visits as a good way to judge if I'm doing a good job or if I need to go back and clean up some items.
Basically I sent an e-mail asking if he had some time to come over and look at my project (including details of what I was building / what stage I was at). Based on his availability and mine, we came up with an agreeable time for him to come over. As far as prep work, I basically cleaned up my shop a bit so he could get access to my work.
After looking your work over and generally talking about your progress he provided a write-up for my records. I look at these visits as a good way to judge if I'm doing a good job or if I need to go back and clean up some items.
It's a mixed bag. I had one come over to look at my tail kit when I finished and the only comment I remember was "well it won't win any awards"...what an a$$hat, and it's the tail flying on my plane now. Another TC came over, chatted for a few minutes, looked things over and pronounced it all good. His comment was "I like your plane!"...it's a useful concept, but to say that the quality of the inspection can vary is vastly understating the case. Good luck
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
The most I've ever accepted is/was a soft drink and the promise of a beer at Oshkosh when the plane is finished.
sglynn
Well Known Member
Tech Councilor
What is the etiquette for tipping, paying, gift certificate or etc. for Tech Councilors. I've had one guy faithfully come three times and offered helpful info each time. I never offered him anything, because I'm just not inclined to think to. But should I have offered him something? Its not too late.
For example the CFIs that provide BFI's at Fly-In events usually get $50 bucks even though it is volunteer for them.
thanks for telling your experiences in this area.
What is the etiquette for tipping, paying, gift certificate or etc. for Tech Councilors. I've had one guy faithfully come three times and offered helpful info each time. I never offered him anything, because I'm just not inclined to think to. But should I have offered him something? Its not too late.
For example the CFIs that provide BFI's at Fly-In events usually get $50 bucks even though it is volunteer for them.
thanks for telling your experiences in this area.
As others have said, Tech counselors are supposed to be volunteers who offer their services for free. That said, if they have to travel significantlyto get to you, then offer to pick up expenses, or offer a good beer, or buy lunch. I give the same service regardless of if I am offered something or not - its part of being an EAA volunteer.
BTW - don?t overlook the advantages of using modern technology. I have been working with a builder out in teh middle of Nevada for over a year now as he builds a -10. I did a first visit out there, and since that time we have ben using emailed pictures and FaceTime to answer questions as he has them. It works great, is very fast, and saves a lot of Avgas!
bpattonsoa
Well Known Member
Dan, you are the man!
They shouldn't! EAA Technical Counselor visits ARE on a voluntary basis.
Jesse
Well Known Member
As has been said, it?s a voluntary service. I?ve only been asked to look at one build, and I looked at it a couple of times. It was well built and the builder and I are friends now. I didn?t charge for that service. I did charge to help him do final assembly and first flights at my shop.
As an FYI, I?ve NEVER had a DAR ask if a TC has looked at it in probably 30-40 inspections I have been a part of.
As an FYI, I?ve NEVER had a DAR ask if a TC has looked at it in probably 30-40 inspections I have been a part of.
kentlik
Well Known Member
Now, this is good! Really good...
rleffler
Well Known Member
The local FSDO has asked about tech counselor visits on at least three inspections that I'm aware. I was also asked by my insurance broker. I have no idea what they did with that information.
When I presented my build documents when the conversation switched to getting the Repairman, the TC reviews were placed in the binder along with all my build docs.
flion
Well Known Member
You never know what you'll get. I had an A&P IA teach me to rivet on the tail of my RV-6A. There were a few dings but he didn't say I needed to redo anything. Then I finished the wings, moved to Flagstaff, and built the fuselage. When I moved the kit to a hangar to finish it up, I thought I'd get a TC in to look before I started in on the expensive stuff. I called the only guy in the area, who showed up, looked my project over, and told me it was terrible - all the dings needed to be repaired with extensive skin patches, I should be using special nesting dimple dies, and so on. I was shocked but I had no experience so I couldn't refute him. He called me the next day and said he'd thought it over and wanted to talk with me. I thought he'd reconsidered how harsh he'd been but, no, he said I had no mechanical ability ("not mechanically inclined" was how he put it) and that I should probably sell the project. I questioned that - if it was that bad would it be ethical to sell?
Anyway, by that time I'd been meeting some of the local pilots and when they heard the story and who the TC was, they surmised he wanted me to sell the project so he could buy it cheap. A few A&P and A&P IAs looked at it and said it was fine. I even got the DAR who was inspecting another aircraft to look at mine and he saw nothing to worry him (later he would do the inspection and made me replace one poorly riveted nutplate). So the plane flew and, while it is not show quality, has given no major problems.
After that incident, I decided that no other building in our area should suffer that. So I convinced the builder of a Lancair Propjet to become a TC along with me. Between us we cover turbine and conventional engines and metal and fiberglass construction, plus we know local A&Ps to give assistance when our experience falls short. Our mission is to assist and advise; when we point out a problem, the attitude is 'it can be fixed, no worries' not 'you should not be a builder.' By the way, the standing joke is still that I'm not mechanically inclined...
My point is that there is no real regulation of TC quality. I'd be willing to bet that if your TC is a builder (the one discussed above was an A&P with no experimental experience) then you'll have a good experience. Even so, there's bound to be a few bad apples in the basket, so be sure to get second or even multiple opinions before you react to what you've been told. That's not a bad thing to do even if your first TC gives you a glowing report; the more eyes you get on a project the more chance you'll have of catching small errors. If you enjoy the building process then you will find that making corrections is as engaging as the rest of building, which takes a lot of the angst of having your work inspected away.
Hey, if a Navy plane pulled from the depths of Lake Michigan can be restored to flying condition, then any small error you make on your project can certainly be fixed.
Anyway, by that time I'd been meeting some of the local pilots and when they heard the story and who the TC was, they surmised he wanted me to sell the project so he could buy it cheap. A few A&P and A&P IAs looked at it and said it was fine. I even got the DAR who was inspecting another aircraft to look at mine and he saw nothing to worry him (later he would do the inspection and made me replace one poorly riveted nutplate). So the plane flew and, while it is not show quality, has given no major problems.
After that incident, I decided that no other building in our area should suffer that. So I convinced the builder of a Lancair Propjet to become a TC along with me. Between us we cover turbine and conventional engines and metal and fiberglass construction, plus we know local A&Ps to give assistance when our experience falls short. Our mission is to assist and advise; when we point out a problem, the attitude is 'it can be fixed, no worries' not 'you should not be a builder.' By the way, the standing joke is still that I'm not mechanically inclined...
My point is that there is no real regulation of TC quality. I'd be willing to bet that if your TC is a builder (the one discussed above was an A&P with no experimental experience) then you'll have a good experience. Even so, there's bound to be a few bad apples in the basket, so be sure to get second or even multiple opinions before you react to what you've been told. That's not a bad thing to do even if your first TC gives you a glowing report; the more eyes you get on a project the more chance you'll have of catching small errors. If you enjoy the building process then you will find that making corrections is as engaging as the rest of building, which takes a lot of the angst of having your work inspected away.
Hey, if a Navy plane pulled from the depths of Lake Michigan can be restored to flying condition, then any small error you make on your project can certainly be fixed.
Everyone?s time is valuable. I greatly appreciated the time my TC provided and those inspection sheets were handed over to the insurance company for a nice 10% break on the premium. I asked him what his favorite adult beverage was and provided him one of those each time he came by. IMHO, it?s just common courtesy, even for volunteers.
az_gila
Well Known Member
That is the key, the more eyes the better.
However, one thing A&Ps tend to be better at is engine installations - builders tend to have looked at far fewer examples, certified or not - and this is an area were the plans get 'thinner' and engine variations come into play.
It's also an area where certified aircraft techniques are probably good.
