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Vans Wing Attach Service Bulletin Procedures (merged thread)

Mine was tested to 6 Gs without the bolts

I did my Phase 1 testing to 6 Gs and I missed the installation of these bolts. After 6 years and 550 hours and a severe turbulence encounter, everything is fine and the bolts went right in last week. Seems like the bolts are for the 9 G margin.
My 2 cents.

By the way, 6 Gs sucks. Did descending turns and built up to it. This gave me the ability to release pressure immediately if I started to grey out.
 
Here's a photo. Wasn't intended to document the bolt install so it's sub-optimal, but it shows the bolts on the left side.

Thus confirming what I'd suspected: I installed them.

i-xFBHP2Z-L.jpg
 
Thanks to all for your descriptions and pictures. I pulled the wing fairings on my purchased RV-8 and could see the nut plates, but no bolt threads. Pulled seat pan to install bolts, but they were already installed, just too short to see on the back side. I assume I should remove and replace with the correct length, and for future reference, is there a standard for number of threads that should be exposed on backside of nut plate?

Thanks
Terry
 
422CT said:
Thanks to all for your descriptions and pictures. I pulled the wing fairings on my purchased RV-8 and could see the nut plates, but no bolt threads. Pulled seat pan to install bolts, but they were already installed, just too short to see on the back side. I assume I should remove and replace with the correct length, and for future reference, is there a standard for number of threads that should be exposed on backside of nut plate?

Thanks
Terry
Click to expand...

I think it's 1 and a 1/2 threads min. protrusion. Been a while so I'm not 100% sure.
 
As a brand new owner, this SB was my very first maintenance task. This RV-9A has aileron boots installed. I tried taking off the stick boots and threading a cheap boroscope through the outer seat ribs, but I couldn't get a good angle on the head of the scope and wasn't convinced I was seeing what I needed to see.

I resorted to plan B and took off the left seat pan completely and lifted up the right seat pan enough to look - all the bolts were installed.
 
No bolts no plates ...nuzzing!

WAM120RV said:
Did my 9A today, but did not remove the wing root fairings as I knew this would be a waste of time if the bolts were not fitted, and could casue damage to the paintwork.

My advise if you dont have a camera that look there is just to remove the floor. It takes less than an hour, in my case only to find that I had done it right in the first place.

However, what Schrito says makes good sense for everyone. I have now started to photograph every finished up part on my 4 primarily because my Inspector has failing eyesight. I now have a photographic record of all nuts tightened with 1.5 threads showing which I can blow up so he can see it.
Click to expand...
Hello, I too have a 9A with a WAM 120 but I am not a builder. Having lifted the floor I find that whilst the holes are there the bolts and nut plates are missing. Your advice please if you would be so kind?
Are the anchor nuts riveted on to the frames W-706? L&R? If this is the case I think I am just going to have to resort to using nuts and washers. I think this seems to be the only solution if only I can get the nuts in place!
Many thanks. Dennis. GCDZD EGTU
 
SB raises serious questions about quality control

LifeofReiley said:
There are many RV's flying with these bolts not installed, this SB should resolve this issue. :) Mel Asberry (DAR) has come upon this issue quite a few times and its on his list of items to check for sure during his DAR inspections.
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You would imagine that the alarm bells would be ringing for a reasonably astute person when he got to the end of his project and discovered that he still had four long 1/4" bolts sitting in his inventory. :rolleyes:

So much for quality control. ;)

But then again, I believe Vans once reported that they came across an RV that had no bolt connecting the rear wing spar to the fuselage. :eek:
 
Missing nut plates

Boldv said:
Hello, I too have a 9A with a WAM 120 but I am not a builder. Having lifted the floor I find that whilst the holes are there the bolts and nut plates are missing. Your advice please if you would be so kind?
Are the anchor nuts riveted on to the frames W-706? L&R? If this is the case I think I am just going to have to resort to using nuts and washers. I think this seems to be the only solution if only I can get the nuts in place!
Many thanks. Dennis. GCDZD EGTU
Click to expand...

If you do not have the nutplates installed on your spars:
1-Remove wing root fairings,
2- visually confirm nutplates are missing using mirror & light thru gap where spar slides into fuselage.
3- fashion (customize to required shape) wrench to install nuts thru fuselage side forward of spar
4- contact cement the 1/4" washers to the an365 nuts, makes easier for installation
5- carefully position nut assembly with wrench while buddy inserts & tightens bolt from inside the plane.
6- keep cursing to a minimum
 
Captain Avgas said:
You would imagine that the alarm bells would be ringing for a reasonably astute person when he got to the end of his project and discovered that he still had four long 1/4" bolts sitting in his inventory. :rolleyes:

So much for quality control. ;)

But then again, I believe Vans once reported that they came across an RV that had no bolt connecting the rear wing spar to the fuselage. :eek:
Click to expand...
Bob,

Are you referring to QA as it relates to the materials sent from Vans or are you thinking in terms of the builder? Either way your comment sounds like a non-builder comment. I say that because as a builder, I missed the install on my plane. I agree my QA was lacking in regards to these bolts but I know how I missed the installation of these bolts. However, I would absolutely disagree with you if you are implying there was a QA problem with the kit materials Vans sends to builders.

It is my impression you are thinking when installing these bolts there would be X number in the kit and if you had 4 bolts in your bin left over you know something is missing on the airplane. Well perhaps in a professional manufacturing facility there would be multiple people along with multiple procedures in place that would track all hardware at all times. As much as I would like to operate like that in my shop I am afraid it doesn't work quite that way. I have bins that house all types and sizes of bolts. When I need a 4-13A bolt I walk over to the 4-13A bolt bin and take one out. There may be 5, 10, 15, who knows how many bolts sitting in that bin. Definitely not just the exact amount needed to install the wing spar.

So, if you are thinking there should be better QA in order to know exactly how many 4-13A bolts Vans had in the kit, in my shop those Vans bolts ended up in a bin with a bunch of other 4-13A bolts from Aircraft Spruce (and yes they are all new bolts). I have to take responsibility for not installing these bolts. I was the builder. I was the person doing the work and following the plans. And the plans do indeed call out these bolts. Somehow I missed them. I don't like it for a minute that I did. At the same time I am thankful for a resource such as this forum that gives me the opportunity to have people I don't even know press me to stay on top of these type of issues and to be critical of my work. Without any of this I would still be ignorant of these missing bolts. Who knows the consequences of that behavior? Honestly I don't know how anyone can build, own or fly any of these planes without having the access to other builders and pilots like we find on this forum.

Perhaps if I had prepped the wing install better by gathering all called out hardware and placing them in separate containers on a "build" table I would have been better prepared for the QA examination of the build. Given this was my first RV build that idea is something I will take to any future RV build for sure, if I ever do build another RV. The saying goes: "Ignorance is bliss, but with knowledge comes wisdome". Well I consider myself a little less ignorant now and just a bit wiser having made this mistake, the many others I made to this point and, I am sure, from the ones I will make in the future. I will never be able to avoid making mistakes, but when I do make a mistake again I hope I never stop learning from it.

Live Long and Prosper!
 
???

Captain Avgas said:
You would imagine that the alarm bells would be ringing for a reasonably astute person when he got to the end of his project and discovered that he still had four long 1/4" bolts sitting in his inventory. :rolleyes:

So much for quality control. ;)

But then again, I believe Vans once reported that they came across an RV that had no bolt connecting the rear wing spar to the fuselage. :eek:
Click to expand...

Huh... it's not like there is a perfect match with hardware and parts. I would suspect that most builders end up ordering lots of miscellaneous hardware during the course of the build and the idea of discovering a problem from an extra part in the bin is pretty unlikely...

At the end of my build here is what I had 'left over' ;)

screenshot20101226at756.jpg
 
Ralph Inkster said:
If you do not have the nutplates installed on your spars:
1-Remove wing root fairings,
2- visually confirm nutplates are missing using mirror & light thru gap where spar slides into fuselage.
3- fashion (customize to required shape) wrench to install nuts thru fuselage side forward of spar
4- contact cement the 1/4" washers to the an365 nuts, makes easier for installation
5- carefully position nut assembly with wrench while buddy inserts & tightens bolt from inside the plane.
6- keep cursing to a minimum
Click to expand...
Many thanks Ralph for your helpful suggestion. Dennis King (Boldv.)
 
RVbySDI said:
Bob,

Are you referring to QA as it relates to the materials sent from Vans or are you thinking in terms of the builder? Either way your comment sounds like a non-builder comment. I say that because as a builder, I missed the install on my plane. I agree my QA was lacking in regards to these bolts but I know how I missed the installation of these bolts. However, I would absolutely disagree with you if you are implying there was a QA problem with the kit materials Vans sends to builders.

It is my impression you are thinking when installing these bolts there would be X number in the kit and if you had 4 bolts in your bin left over you know something is missing on the airplane. Well perhaps in a professional manufacturing facility there would be multiple people along with multiple procedures in place that would track all hardware at all times. As much as I would like to operate like that in my shop I am afraid it doesn't work quite that way. I have bins that house all types and sizes of bolts. When I need a 4-13A bolt I walk over to the 4-13A bolt bin and take one out. There may be 5, 10, 15, who knows how many bolts sitting in that bin. Definitely not just the exact amount needed to install the wing spar.

So, if you are thinking there should be better QA in order to know exactly how many 4-13A bolts Vans had in the kit, in my shop those Vans bolts ended up in a bin with a bunch of other 4-13A bolts from Aircraft Spruce (and yes they are all new bolts). I have to take responsibility for not installing these bolts. I was the builder. I was the person doing the work and following the plans. And the plans do indeed call out these bolts. Somehow I missed them. I don't like it for a minute that I did. At the same time I am thankful for a resource such as this forum that gives me the opportunity to have people I don't even know press me to stay on top of these type of issues and to be critical of my work. Without any of this I would still be ignorant of these missing bolts. Who knows the consequences of that behavior? Honestly I don't know how anyone can build, own or fly any of these planes without having the access to other builders and pilots like we find on this forum.

Perhaps if I had prepped the wing install better by gathering all called out hardware and placing them in separate containers on a "build" table I would have been better prepared for the QA examination of the build. Given this was my first RV build that idea is something I will take to any future RV build for sure, if I ever do build another RV. The saying goes: "Ignorance is bliss, but with knowledge comes wisdome". Well I consider myself a little less ignorant now and just a bit wiser having made this mistake, the many others I made to this point and, I am sure, from the ones I will make in the future. I will never be able to avoid making mistakes, but when I do make a mistake again I hope I never stop learning from it.

Live Long and Prosper!
Click to expand...

If you were Bob, Bob would have a valid point. Bob is less like most of us and an absolute perfectionist. Bob has been building his RV project for many more years than most of us because his processes revolve around an obsessive level of perfection. When Bob finishes his aircraft I am genuinely confident that will be an exemplar build and I equally confident that he won't miss any bolts.

That said - I am different and I missed the four bolts identified in the SB. My build is pretty nice (in my opinion) but it is not perfect. I started my build many years after Bob and I finished my build in four years. I am enjoying flying my RV (a lot) whilst Bob is still building (many years on). I don't think that i missed much but i was disappointed with myself that I missed these bolts.

Interestingly I completed my first annual inspection (approximately one year ago) and at that point I went over my bird with a fine tooth comb....I was doing the work on my own so i double checked everything. I spent two very long days and evenings in my hangar checking over every inch but i still missed the four missing bolts.

I have just completed my second annual inspection (a couple of weeks back but prior to the issue of the Vans SB) and this time, in the interests of safety, I decided to engaged a local LAME to go over my aircraft with me while all my panels were removed so I could learn from his experience. He picked up the four missing bolts because he was looking at my bird with a different perspective (he didn't build it!). Notably he was extremely happy with everything else he inspected. He also commented that he was very lucky to notice the bolts missing because with his torch he could not see threads at the end of the nut plates. Had I missed the nut plates he would probably have been none the wiser.

On reflection I recalled that the four bolts were not in the bag with the primary wing bolts and this probably led to the first oversight but more relevantly when you look down on the web at an angle in limited light the holes for the bolts look very similar to the surrounding rivet heads so they are somewhat disguised and certainly don't shout out for attention. I checked the axo drawing and still missed them?

But I guess the point is that I'm happy to admit that I am not perfect and I am convinced that there are many RV's missing these bolts and hence the SB. Just as relevantly another RV in my hangar was missing the bolts as well but that bird has not had its first flight yet...

I'll get over my mistake but one thing I definitely learnt was the priceless value of having a second set of professional and experienced eyes look over your build. You may have built it, and you may know your bird fairly intimately but it certainly doesn't mean you are experienced.....

Chz
 
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Jon Clements said:
If you were Bob, Bob would have a valid point. Bob is less like most of us and an absolute perfectionist. . . But I guess the point is that I'm happy to admit that I am not perfect. . .
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The very point of my post. We all make mistakes. The reality of Perfectionism is that even the concept of Perfectionism is a flaw in and of itself that leads to its own forms of imperfection. Holding to a view of Perfectionism is not an excuse for erroneous conclusions.

Jon Clements said:
I'll get over my mistake but one thing I definitely learnt was the priceless value of having a second set of professional and experienced eyes look over your build. You may have built it, and you may know your bird fairly intimately but it certainly doesn't mean you are experienced.....Chz
Click to expand...
Concur fully with this statement. My build completed over 2 years ago. I had at least a dozen eyes over that plane at every possible opportunity. Still a mistake was made!
 
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas
You would imagine that the alarm bells would be ringing for a reasonably astute person when he got to the end of his project and discovered that he still had four long 1/4" bolts sitting in his inventory.

So much for quality control.
Click to expand...
An amazing comment, if only becuase a large number of the bolts specified in the plans do not end up as the right size, let alone left overs due optional parts / Vans sending more than needed.

Just to remind everyone, this was brought to Vans attention a month or 2 ago due to an error in the Van's Drawings / Instructions omitting the bolts. It does not have to be builder / Inspector etc. error.
 
Andy Hill said:
. . .Just to remind everyone, this was brought to Vans attention a month or 2 ago due to an error in the Van's Drawings / Instructions omitting the bolts. It does not have to be builder / Inspector etc. error.
Click to expand...
I would be interested in hearing the validation of this statement. My drawings are from circa 2001. They DID HAVE these bolts detailed on my drawings. Were there subsequent years when the drawings omitted them?

I don't think this was just revealed "a month or 2 ago". See Post #27 of this thread that refers back to this thread from OCT 2007.
 
sb12-8-14

Thanks to all who have offered suggestions and pix.

I have an RV-7a and THINK I have located the two bolts in question. However I am suspicious because it was too easy to find them. I just unscrewed the top wing to fuselage fairing up to the leading edge and you can see heads sticking through the nutplates just inside the gap in from to the center section.

I'll include a picture. So if anyone doesn't think this is the right hardware, please let me know.

THX,
xddqf8.jpg

LLL
 
I would be interested in hearing the validation of this statement. My drawings are from circa 2001. They DID HAVE these bolts detailed on my drawings. Were there subsequent years when the drawings omitted them?
Click to expand...
See My post here - in short the RV-8 -1 fuselage Instructions / Drawings omitted the bolts (issued ~2007) until the DWG was revised.

I don't think this was just revealed "a month or 2 ago".
Click to expand...
I actually said:
Just to remind everyone, this was brought to Vans attention a month or 2 ago due to an error in the Van's Drawings / Instructions omitting the bolts.
Click to expand...
I eMailed Vans re the missing RV-8 Bolts / DWG issue above on July the 25th 2012, and got a reply on the 26th. The reply did state Vans were "aware" of other instances, but then went into quite a long dialogue about why the bolts are there, and the load paths. It might be pure co-incidence, but I suspect not that the SB followed shortly ;) So whilst the matter was discussed here, did anybody alert Vans? And in addition, maybe once it was pointed out that it need not be builders error, but actually a DWG error, that maybe Vans decided the SB was warranted?
 
I'd love to hear some insight some time into when and what criteria Van's uses in deciding to issue a SB.

A lot of times -- though not this one -- it's based on one report. When I found the flawed connectors on Van's supplied power cables, there was nothing issued -- or said, for that matter, even though several other people reported the same thing.
 
lllewis45 said:
Thanks to all who have offered suggestions and pix.

I have an RV-7a and THINK I have located the two bolts in question. However I am suspicious because it was too easy to find them. I just unscrewed the top wing to fuselage fairing up to the leading edge and you can see heads sticking through the nutplates just inside the gap in from to the center section.

I'll include a picture. So if anyone doesn't think this is the right hardware, please let me know.

THX,
xddqf8.jpg

LLL
Click to expand...


That's them.
 
Less than 10 minutes to pull the floor pans. Yep bolts were there all along, which I was pretty sure was the case. But got to inspect an area that gets neglected except for condition inspection time.

Took pics for the build log, since I couldn't find any from the build.
photobucket-2386-1346185189007.jpg
 
Hydroguy - how are your floor pans fastened so you could get them up in less than 10 minutes? I am both new to ownership and slow...which translates into very slow ;)
 
Screws, roughly 20/side. I think they're all that way. grabbed my milwaukee drill w/screw bit and zipped them off.
 
RVbySDI said:
The very point of my post. We all make mistakes. The reality of Perfectionism is that even the concept of Perfectionism is a flaw in and of itself that leads to its own forms of imperfection. Holding to a view of Perfectionism is not an excuse for erroneous conclusions.
Click to expand...

Steve, let's get real....we're not talking about "perfectionism" here. We're not discussing some minor cosmetic issue. We're talking about an oversight in the installation of four critical wing attachment bolts. If that's not a serious quality control issue then I don't know what is. :rolleyes:

RVbySDI said:
I will never be able to avoid making mistakes, but when I do make a mistake again I hope I never stop learning from it.
Click to expand...

In aviation it is far safer to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than your own. ;)
 
[email protected] said:
Huh... it's not like there is a perfect match with hardware and parts. I would suspect that most builders end up ordering lots of miscellaneous hardware during the course of the build and the idea of discovering a problem from an extra part in the bin is pretty unlikely...
Click to expand...

Stephen, it all depends on how you arrange your inventory. This is what I did.

I studied the drawing of the spar carry-through at the appropriate time during construction of the fuselage. Then at that stage while everything was still fresh in my mind I removed all the appropriate fastener hardware associated with the wing attachment from general inventory and consolidated the hardware into one labelled bag. This included the extra washers that go under the head of the main bolts on the RV7A. I also put the screws for the lower wing skin-to-fuselage connection in there as well (believe it or not some builders forget to instal these screws as well).

This should preclude any possibility of hardware not being installed.

But in the end, builders need to refer to the drawings (and understand them) when they attach the wings. And the fact that many are not installing all of the hardware is simply indicative of the fact that many builders are NOT bothering to revisit and refer to the drawings at this most crucial stage of the construction. And that's the bottom line.
 
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Captain Avgas said:
But in the end, builders need to refer to the drawings (and understand them) when they attach the wings. And the fact that many are not installing all of the hardware is simply indicative of the fact that many builders are NOT bothering to revisit and refer to the drawings at this most crucial stage of the construction. And that's the bottom line.
Click to expand...

That's the relevant point Bob - I am certainly guilty of failing to double/triple check my drawings post final wing attachment.......as you know I am an architect and that probably had something to do with the fact that I spend way too much of my life looking at drawings and my excuse is that it is easy to become complacent with CAD smashed brain cells (In case you are wondering I just smacked myself on the back of the hand!). I am constantly reminding my builders to read the drawings and on this occasion I am a hypocrite....but I will get over it.

On Friday arvo I am bolting a set of wings back onto a Cessna 195A that I have just imported from the USA (with the assistance of a LAME) and I won't have any drawings to refer to...... should be interesting but I am excited!!!

Cheers JC
 
Jon Clements said:
I am constantly reminding my builders to read the drawings and on this occasion I am a hypocrite....but I will get over it.

Cheers JC
Click to expand...

Jon, I just think you were amazingly gutsy to put your hand up and admit to not installing those bolts. And I think you performed a valuable service to the RV community in doing so. My best guess is that large numbers of builders have not installed those bolts, but they're not going to confess in public. Thus the full extent of the problem will never be known.

There's a lot of skeletons in the closet out there in Experimental land. This amazing and quite unique Service Bulletin may represent just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm just drooling about your Cessna 195. Talk about a classic aircraft....radial engine, cantilever wing, first Cessna to be fully constructed from aluminium. Fantastic.
 
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Hi Bob

As you are probably aware I confessed my mistake on the RVs in Aus forum as well....it's a mistake but I certainly didn't hesitate to admit it. The crux of this mistake and the circumstances surrounding it left me feeling more than convinced that it was a common oversight in the wing attach procedure because many of us install and remove the wings on more than one occasion.

As you have suggested - one person's mistake is another person's lesson. I made other minor mistakes along the way (definitely not quite as critical) but picked most of them up ( I hope!) and whenever I thought they were worth posting for the benefits of others, I coughed up. I feel that I have nothing to gain from hiding anything and I regularly scour the forums to learn lessons from others......that's my primary reason for lingering at VAF but there is plenty of other stuff to feast on at the same time.

The 195A landed on the docks yesterday but unfortunately the move to Hazair Albury has been delayed as the container has been flagged for an X-Ray. Looks like we will be bolting the wings back on mid to late next week. When I get it flying and move it back to Little River I'll shoot you an email and you can come and check it out. I have dreamed of owning a classic tail dragging Cessna for years and now the dream is turning into reality. It is definitely an aircraft that I will enjoy looking at as much as I will enjoy flying it....The perfect family wagon!

I am still dreaming about a P-51...

Cheers Jon
 
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Checked mine last weekend

and I had left them out. Totally embarrassed! Took longer to get the seat and floor pans out than it did to install the bolts, but I'm pleased that Van's sent out the SB and that this site alerted me and others. Every RV at the field checked to see their bolts. Already pulled 3.1 Gs and Vne without the bolts so their structural benefit must be beyond that. Thanks again for the heads up.
Bill RV-8a 69 hrs
 
I was concerned with the major effort that went into getting the main 16 bolts in, with the "A" main gear weldments in the road, that I may have missed these 4 bolts. But fortunately I didn't.....All good.

Bob & Robyn Dennis
RV9a
 
Its Surprising How Many Builders Overlook These Bolts

Changed the oil today and removed the floor panels to see if the original builders had installed the bolts. I was a dismayed to see that all 4 bolts were missing, but luckily the nut plates were in place. A flying buddy had about 20 of these bolts in his collection, probably left over from his RV builds. Only took about 15 min to attach the bolts and make a log book entry for the SB. On a 9A, they are easy to attach as long as the nut plates are present. Our 9A has over 750 hours and has been thru some severe turbulence in its life without these bolts in place. Im not sure what function these bolts serve, but just looking at the attachment it doesn't look like they have much of a structural component. I helped a friend a few years ago attach the wings on his 7a, and we were so relieved to get the big bolts in place, that I'm not sure if the little bolts were attached. Probably the reason why so many builders overlook them.
 
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8 main bolt install directions

I removed my wings last December to take my 8 home for some updates to the panel among other things.
I am just putting the wings back on and began studying the plans for the install of the main spar bolts......I know when I took them out the head of the bolts was on the rear of the spar and the nuts were on the front of the spar (Rudder pedal side) but I wanted to confirm this on the drawings.

I cannot find an exploded view of this on my plans (1999). I sent a support email to Van's this afternoon and then got on here tonight to do some research.

In this thread alone there are pics posted by different builders with the bolts in both directions.

From the exploded view posted of the 7 plans....I believe it does show the bolt heads on the back of the spar as I had mine.....but I see other images with the nuts on the back of the spar....

Any opinions or assistance in this area is appreciated.
Does anyone know if newer issues of the 8 plans shows better detail?

Another Question. This is second time I have taken my wings off....so the third install. Anyone feel I should replace the main 16 ct bolts? I am for sure replacing the locknuts....just debating the main bolts....they still appear in good shape

Doug
 
fstringham7a said:
Perry, maybe this will help. I will also try and get a picture of that area out of my build log pictures later. This is plan set 11 for an RV7A.....

nfexv.jpg


6xsyno.jpg
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Hello. I have a 9A. On this top image here...when looking on the fwd side of the spar...the only thing you should see is the 2 AN4 bolts threads and the 2 nutplates, corrects? I have pulled down the forward bottom fillet strip (wing to fuselsausage) and when I look outboard to inboard, I can easily see 2 threaded ends o fAN4 bolts and 2 nutplates. I'll try to upload a couple pics so you know what I am looking at...but I feel confident I'm looking at a proper installation. :)
 
If there are threaded bolt ends, in the nutplates (viewed from the front side of the bulkhead), then the bolts in question are installed.
 
pics

Best I could take with cheesy cam. Also pulled the left side and appears to be normal.
281r4t0.jpg

scqa2v.jpg


The 2nd pic, is directly above the gear leg mount and aft. If this is the correct position then I'm good.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
If there are threaded bolt ends, in the nutplates (viewed from the front side of the bulkhead), then the bolts in question are installed.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to be sure...that I was not suppose to see the 4 horizontal bolt heads that make the top and bottom of the "I" pattern, view from the front...4 of the bolts being the nas1304's. From my view and for feeling with hand, those bolt heads are not exposed. Is this correct?
 
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drmax said:
Just wanted to be sure...that I was not suppose to see the 4 horizontal bolt heads that make the top and bottom of the "I" pattern, view from the front...4 of the bolts being the nas1304's. From my view and for feeling with hand, those bolt heads are not exposed. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

Those 8 bolts go through the entire center section and also attach the main gear brackets to the front of the center section.
Remove the covers on the front of the center section and to either side of the fuel valve and you will be able to see the nuts.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
Those 8 bolts go through the entire center section and also attach the main gear brackets to the front of the center section.
Remove the covers on the front of the center section and to either side of the fuel valve and you will be able to see the nuts.
Click to expand...
ah ha. thx for that information! rest assured....:) i'll look that back over in 1 year. For now, I know the bolts are installed. DM
 
No Nut Plates - and not in instructions either

Hi all -
This is the 4th annual condition inspection on my RV-8, and I just saw the SB...
I have floor pans secured by bolts, so it came off easily and I found NO BOLTS. But when I put in the missing AN4-13A's I also discovered NO NUT PLATES!!!
As I was the builder, I went back to the instructions and plans to see how I could possibly have missed them. I built the fuselage in 2000, and the plans do not show the nut plates, nor do the instructions mention them. I looked very carefully through the instructions and there is no mention of K1000 nut plates in the section dealing with the F804G bar. To quote, it says
"Fit the F-804G bar using both AN4 bolts. This bar is held in place during assembly with two AN426AD4 rivets (flush head forward). See View 1, DWG11. Set these rivets now"
That is all. On the plans it does mention that the bolt goes into a K1000 nut plate, but that nut plate is not drawn in as it is in the -7 plans that I have seen in this forum.
So it is very easy to miss the nut plate, which I did. Now I have to make up the funny wrench and try to get the nut and washer in place while getting someone else to turn the bolt!
And not curse too much.
 
GordonR said:
Hi all -
This is the 4th annual condition inspection on my RV-8, and I just saw the SB...
I have floor pans secured by bolts, so it came off easily and I found NO BOLTS. But when I put in the missing AN4-13A's I also discovered NO NUT PLATES!!!
As I was the builder, I went back to the instructions and plans to see how I could possibly have missed them. I built the fuselage in 2000, and the plans do not show the nut plates, nor do the instructions mention them. I looked very carefully through the instructions and there is no mention of K1000 nut plates in the section dealing with the F804G bar. To quote, it says
"Fit the F-804G bar using both AN4 bolts. This bar is held in place during assembly with two AN426AD4 rivets (flush head forward). See View 1, DWG11. Set these rivets now"
That is all. On the plans it does mention that the bolt goes into a K1000 nut plate, but that nut plate is not drawn in as it is in the -7 plans that I have seen in this forum.
So it is very easy to miss the nut plate, which I did. Now I have to make up the funny wrench and try to get the nut and washer in place while getting someone else to turn the bolt!
And not curse too much.
Click to expand...

I got burned by this also. I was 2nd owner of my -8 and had just listed it for sale when this SB came out. Almost immediately I had two buyers interested so I told them to standby while I go inspect the airplane. As my luck would have it, I too found the bolts and nut plates missing. I didn't want to lose the sale so I took the plane to a shop that specializes in refurbishing wrecked aircraft for insurance claim recoveries. They fabricated the tool and quickly completed the job and I was able to sell the aircraft to the first caller.
 
For whatever reason, I have a set of RV-8 preview plans for my -8 from 2000 in my office at work (I finished my -8 in 2004). Looking at drawing drawing 11A, up in the top left, there is direction for ->

2x
AN4-13A BOLT
AN960-416 WASHER
(GOES THRU F-804C-1R,
F-804B-1 SUB-ASSY.,
W-706A SPAR WEB
AND W-706C DOUBLER AND
INTO K1000-4 PLATENUT)

The only revision listed (on my copy) is R1 for changing a dimension somewhere from 1 3/4 to 1 1/2.

Did this text somehow get removed in later versions?
 
The nut plates being referred to get installed on the wing spar during initial prep (installing fuel tank nutplates, etc.)

They are depicted in the upper right corner (zone G/1) of dwg. 10A. The depiction was added in a revision dated 1/27/03

There was always a depiction of them on DWG 11A, VIEW #4 in the lower left corner of the page.
 
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GOOD NEWS for those who did not install nut plates

You are right - I stand corrected. It is shown in the bottom left of drawing 11 in View 4, but not on my (vintage 2000) drawing 10. As nothing was said in my instructions I completely missed it.
HOWEVER -- :D Great news for those - like me! - who did not install the nut plates. Today after pondering the problem for 2 hours and imagining a special tool, I suddenly thought of putting in the bolts from the INSIDE of the wing box and the nuts from the cabin area. By removing the front wing root faring and working through the fuselage-wing gap, there is room to hold the bolt with alligator nose locking pliers and slide it into its hole. Then it is easy to apply the washer and nut and torque it up from inside the cockpit. I used an 8" long ring wrench to hold the bolt head, and used a bit of contact cement to prevent it from dropping off the bolt. The wrench can lean against the structure of the wing and will hold itself in place while tightening the nut from inside. In 20 minutes all was done! Solo!
 
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