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Cheapest RV Contest

Captain Avgas said:
So what is the relevance of builders quoting dubious RV project costs for projects involving superceded models that were started in a previous century.

What prospective builders need to know is what it costs to build a current model...today....and including paint...and including ALL necessary dollar items required to finish and maintain the plane (eg tools).
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You can compare costs over time by using inflation-adjusted dollars. It's easy with this calculator: CPI Inflation Calculator

For example, Mel's $28k in 1989 is $46k today. Your sarcastic $5K in 1946 is $52K today.

Of course, the CPI isn't going to exactly track such things as used airplane engines, but it gives a nice baseline I think. Andy
 
Cheapest RV ? ingredients

It's not a price, but a process. Build with junk and you wind up with junk. You can't just flip open a book and find the neccessary goodies as bargains, all at once. Keep looking. One of the best things for your project plane is a notepad. A 79 cent spiral bound with all the things you want to find. Memory will let you down. You flip through the pages twice a week and nail what you can. Can't find your cockpit lights as a bargain, today? There's always tomorrow. In a year, you'll be sweeping up the last rivets and looking for someone to hold a wing.
 
Hi Pierre,
The Rand Dollar exchange at the moment is frightning, my estimate of 60k is in dollar terms of course, but as for my wife it is in rand terms. Lets keep pounding those rivets and thanks Doug for a great forum.
 
I could build the airplane for free if I won the kit, an uncle gave me an engine, I found an avionics shop going out of business that gave me their spare wire, etc, etc....but that doesn't mean anything. Sharing and archiving the ways that people have saved money to get flying is great!

I wish I could find just such and uncle!!

:)
 
Captain Avgas said:
Most of that "extra" will go into the panel......ha ha ha ha...heh heh heh...please excuse me 'cause my ribs are hurting from laughing so much. That's the funniest joke I've heard this year. It IS a joke isn't it...tell me you're not serious

The cost estimate on Vans website for a QB RV7 with a new O-360 (carbie), CS prop, lighting, pro paint job, and with tools...but only VFR ....is $79520 to $88000.

And in addition....at the risk of really depressing you....Vans low end figures are notoriously tongue-in-cheek. In fact smart people use their high end figure as the low end figure.

I note that Vans don't even have an IFR option in their cost estimator any more....they probably took it out because it was frightening people.

Please enlighten us as to where this figure of <$50k came from (including a GNS 480). Is it a calculated budget/estimate...or is it just a number you wrote down on an ice-cream wrapper while you were visiting Disneyland. :rolleyes:

Bob Barrow
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NOT building a QB, save 8K...


Kit costs (basic airframe) - $19,000 (With electric trim)
Mid time IO-320 - $4500
My own FWF work - $3000 +/-
No paint
My own interior - $1500
Instruments (Gyro) - Free (Pulls out of airplanes I work on...)
Prop - Used CS off my Dad's Cardinal... ~$2500
Governor - $1500

Wow, I'm running out of stuff to spend money on... Up to $32000, If I go with EFIS instead of Gyros, I can plan on $8K for that UP to $40K, and then the GNS 480 for $9000 puts it at $49000. I'm sure I can do without the EFIS if I want, but without it I could afford an SL30 and Audio panel too... Transponder will be a cheapo Garmin digital probably ~$700.

Any more flaws with my plan?

Anyway, thats just a goal, who knows what it will actually cost.

And Ice cream at disneyland really is good, but messy for planning aircraft projects. Bottom line, keep costs down, don't go overboard with stuff you don't need. If you won't use it every flight, it's just extra weight and cost that shouldn't be in the airplane.

Case in point 2002 dollars (for those that say you can do this kind of thing):

Cessna Cardinal (Project, been sitting) $10,000
First annual, including prop overhaul, new tires, general upkeep stuff $6000
Brand new avionics (UPSat stack, PSe 7000b Audio panel, MX20 MFD, GX60 GPS Comm, SL 30 Nav Comm, SL70 transponder, with new encoder) $16,000
Total 7 months and $32,000
4-place IFR 120KT sports car -- priceless.

Since then we've overhauled the O-360 A1A for $11,000 with new supierior cylinders and cam. Redone baffling, rebuilt alternator, new wheel pants, a couple of speed mods, and we're seeing 130kt cruise, and have invested $10K less than the airplane is worth.

Yeah, i'm an A&P, and I know people, but that doesn't have a huge effect on much of anything. Most people can find an IA that will work with them on this kind of stuff, and do all the work themselves. Experimentals even more so. This hobby/business doesn't have to be as expensive as people make it out to be.

Edit: Also don't include the price of tools, since that is part of my business as an A&P.
 
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Where can you find that kind of deal?

osxuser said:
Mid time IO-320 - $4500
.
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I have never seen an engine at that price. You must have a good source of used engines.

Kent
 
O-320's come in around $4500 every couple months in Trade a Plane. That said, I know a few people with Twin Comanche's that may be upgrading to bigger engines or selling their timed out engines cheap. Thats the model I'm planning on using, the Twinkie IO-320 (Dyno 1 I think :eek:...). Now if someting better comes along, I'll go with that, but I do plan on finding a good cheap engine, and I KNOW they are out there to be had :). Patience and a little free cash can do wonders.
 
osxuser said:
O-320's come in around $4500 every couple months in Trade a Plane. That said, I know a few people with Twin Comanche's that may be upgrading to bigger engines or selling their timed out engines cheap. Thats the model I'm planning on using, the Twinkie IO-320 (Dyno 1 I think :eek:...). Now if someting better comes along, I'll go with that, but I do plan on finding a good cheap engine, and I KNOW they are out there to be had :). Patience and a little free cash can do wonders.
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The IO-320 from the Twin Comanche uses a Dynofocal II mount.
 
Boy Bob, I'm speachless. I haven't seen that type of stinging sarcasm since junior high.

There are obviously two camps here. One that has all the financial resources to build the most advanced RV that can be built, and one that does not and builds RV's that are basic, but still RV's and still as safe as any other airplane out there.

While I agree that some of the aforementioned low estimates for building an RV in today's dollars are hard to attain by the average builder, it is still possible, however, to build a quality airplane for about the cost of a mid to upper range SUV. Such an airplane would certainly be devoid of some of the bells and whistles that are now available, but airplanes have flown for years without such gizmos and have done so quite safely and reliably.

Bottom line here is that an RV is an RV, and my hat goes off to anyone who gets one flying, no matter if some of its components came from Ebay or not.

Regards,
 
light=cheep=performace

Builders on a budget get the best RVs. Light RVs performe THE BEST.
If you can't afford it and it is not in your RV, it will lift off shorter, fly faster, be built in less time, get you in the air sooner.
Work and save up for that SUPER WIZ BANG GIZMO? IT Will make your project take longer, harder to build, harder to maintane, and take more $$$ to build.
Build cheep, Fly sooner, Fly better, Fly more, Learn more, Have more fun.
My $.02
 
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Wise words

Wise words indeed from Jay. What a shame to have gazillions of dollars in a heavyweight that's turtle slow!

Great observation,
 
Data point on my RV4 - finishing

I am plodding along on RV4 kit #3001 that began in 1993. The airframe kits are done and my panel shopping spree is nearing installation time. I am using a Stratomaster Enigma, GLX-320A, Icom A200, Kuckolls fuse block, no keyed mag switch, no steam guages, all manual including a C-210 fuel primer pump, all switches and electronic functions on the panel. I naturally drift toward KIS without having to prod myself. No money issues, just want a simple low cost sport plane. I have been watching this post and wondering where I am at in dollars spent so I totalled it up over a glass of wine last night. The items remaining to purchase are getting few and pretty well ironed out so a projection is do-able. Yes, I have a few items from Ebay: wood prop and extension, manual fuel pump, Prestolite engine starter, surplus Northwest Airlines wool upholstery fabric, a nice looking push button engine starter switch. I just happened to like the upholstery fabric and noticed it listed on Ebay my one and only sortie to see what a person could buy. I was the lone bidder, $25 for an ample quanity. My wife and I like the Northwest Airlines logo because it makes us smile & chuckle every time we look at it. A fitting application for a simple airplane.

I have a running 1,852 hour TT O-320D1A core (only missing starter) that was $4,948, including shipping. Near as I can tell my total is going to be $28,622, including a $1,500 allowance for paint (?). This does not include the cost of registration. I'm not trying to build on the cheap, it has just worked out that way because I don't want a Starship Enterprise. My kit cost is low because all but the finish kit are pre 1995 purchases. I bought the wing kit second hand for slightly less than the original price. Back when the RV8 was announced by Van's the RV4 lost its luster to some folks.

After reading many positive posts about home brew engine rebuilding I'm going to go that direction prior to the first flight. This will probably triple my engine core price. The airplane looks so good I can't bring myself to mount the haggard looking used engine on it.

I hope my information hits home for a few fence sitters and other builders with similar values. No shame in a basic bird. It is all I have every wanted.

Very sincerely,

Brian Vickers of Bainbridge Island, WA
RV4 - finishing - no prepunched holes!!!
 
Wait....

Brian Vickers said:
I have a running 1,852 hour TT O-320D1A core (only missing starter) that was $4,948, including shipping. Near as I can tell my total is going to be $28,622, including a $1,500 allowance for paint (?). The airplane looks so good I can't bring myself to mount the haggard looking used engine on it.

I hope my information hits home for a few fence sitters and other builders with similar values. No shame in a basic bird. It is all I have every wanted.

Very sincerely,

Brian Vickers of Bainbridge Island, WA
RV4 - finishing - no prepunched holes!!!
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Brian,
That engine probably has a whole lot more life left in it than you give it credit for! ;) Why not pressure wash/clean and repaint it and make it look good. Run it for a while, check the oil consumption and compression, THEN decide whether or not you need to overhaul. FWIW, my next door buddy has a Skyhawk with a 150 Lyc nearing 3000 hours and still has mid 70's compression!

Regards,
 
My engine, O-320-E3D, had 2500 hrs on it when installed. I flew it for 3 years and another 318 hrs. It could have gone much further. When I tore it down for overhaul, everything met serviceable specs. These engines are pretty much bullet proof when cared for.
 
My second RV cost much less....

Probably because it is only 1/8 scale. It is a static display model I made for my father who always wanted one of my RC planes to hang in his home in MD. A couple weeks ago, I flew up to Quantico Va. (just outside the DC ADIZ) to visit him and deliver the model. From middle GA to northern VA took me just about 4 hours flying time with one fuel stop. One highlight of the trip for me was decending from 10.5k feet between big white puffy clouds while Gary Wright's "Dreamweaver" played on the XM 70's station. A surreal experience which I will always remember.

 
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Not to hijack or anything, but I LOVE your paint!
bsacks05 said:
Probably because it is only 1/8 scale. It is a static display model I made for my father who always wanted one of my RC planes to hang in his home in MD. A couple weeks ago, I flew up to Quantico Va. (just outside the DC ADIZ) to visit him and deliver the model. From middle GA to northern VA took me just about 4 hours flying time with one fuel stop. One highlight of the trip for me was decending from 10.5k feet between big white puffy clouds while Gary Wright's "Dreamweaver" played on the XM 70's station. A surreal experience which I will always remember.

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Bruce has a sweet airplane

bsacks05 said:
Probably because it is only 1/8 scale. It is a static display model I made for my father who always wanted one of my RC planes to hang in his home in MD. A couple weeks ago, I flew up to Quantico Va. (just outside the DC ADIZ) to visit him and deliver the model. From middle GA to northern VA took me just about 4 hours flying time with one fuel stop. One highlight of the trip for me was decending from 10.5k feet between big white puffy clouds while Gary Wright's "Dreamweaver" played on the XM 70's station. A surreal experience which I will always remember.

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Flies like a dream!
 
Bruce's Plane is awesome!

bsacks05 said:
Probably because it is only 1/8 scale. It is a static display model I made for my father who always wanted one of my RC planes to hang in his home in MD. A couple weeks ago, I flew up to Quantico Va. (just outside the DC ADIZ) to visit him and deliver the model. From middle GA to northern VA took me just about 4 hours flying time with one fuel stop. One highlight of the trip for me was decending from 10.5k feet between big white puffy clouds while Gary Wright's "Dreamweaver" played on the XM 70's station. A surreal experience which I will always remember.

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Bruce, you did a beautiful job, why arent you an EAA technical advisor?
 
kentb said:
I have never seen an engine at that price. You must have a good source of used engines.

Kent
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I have an O-320-E2D sitting in my hangar that I paid $2000 for. It came from an estate sale from a gentleman down the road from us who passed away that had an old Cherokee which sat in a hanger basically rotting away for 30 years. The airframe was corroded beyond practical repair but the engine was in suprisingly good shape.
 
1997 RV6A

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We finished this RV6A slow slow build in 1997 after 4 years of building.
It had a 0 time since major O360 Lycoming we bought from an overhaul facility for $12,500. The flight instruments were all bought used and overhauled. The engine instruments were new from Vans. The radios consisted of one comm and one transponder we bought new. We mounted a handheld GPS to the panel for navigation. We worked out a deal with a local painter. He let us prep the plane in his booth and then we hired one of his painters to spray. We then prepped for the next color and his painter came in the following night for another color. We did this four nights in a row as we did primer, white, red, and then blue. Total cost for the painter was about $800 and we spent about $500 in materials using an acrylic enamel with a hardener. We initially went with a wood prop for about 8 years and then went with the fixed pitch metal through Sensenich. Total cost was about $32,000. Even though it wasn't IFR certified, I completed all of my basic instrument training in it. I did about 30 hours of flight work and then switched to the old C172 for 10 hours before completing a successful check ride!
rh2.jpg
 
Jaypratt said:
The 0-320 H2AD is a bargain, still,,,, and can be used in a RV x
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I used to be surprised that anyone would use a 76-series engine in a homebuilt. But after talking to a couple of fairly knowledgeable people about them, now I'm a bit surprised how few there are. It seems that these days their cam issues are pretty well understood and mitigated. And given how many of them were plugged into C172s it would seem a pretty logical choice.
 
Cheapest RV

My dad and I built our -3 in 1989 for $12,000.00. :eek: A VFR machine, no gizmos, standard 6 pack. Still flys today.:D
 
I finished my RV-8 in November for $43,000. This is actually a great thread. I was talking to Ken S. at Vans a couple weeks ago and he had a customer telling him you cant get an RV in the air for less than $80K. He asked me to write about all the ways I saved money for their facebook page. It's good to get the word out that you don't have to be a millionaire to have one of these things.

My 8 has a D-10, two axis auto-pilot, GPS 396 and an O-360-A1A,(had 590 hours on it).
 
Advisor

rulmen said:
Bruce, you did a beautiful job, why arent you an EAA technical advisor?
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I'm lucky. He's always the first person I go to. While I'm building a 7 and he built a 9, he is full of knowledge. We knocked out 5 ribs on my tank in 1.5 hours. Although the EAA may not recognize it, he is advising!
 
$16,000 RV-4

I started my RV-4 in 1987 when the kit cost $6,750.00. I found an O-320 in a salvage yard with 1,550 hours on it for $2,750.00. I planed to overhaul it, but decided to paint it and hange it on the plane to see if it would run. It ran great for 600 more hours before I finally overhauled it. My Sturba prop cost $340.00 and I bought my instruments, tires, oil; cooler and most firewall forward parts from a salvage yard. A VAL 760 radio for $650 new and a used transponder w/encoder. It has a FlyBuddy loran that I need to remove someday. 4 years later I had $16,00.00 in it when I first flew it. I flew it without paint for 5 years and finally spent $2,000.00 for a nice Jet Glow 3 coler paint job. 20 years and 1,200 hours later it is still my pride & joy.
 
Bought my kits from 2003 till now. Still need to get the FWF kit. My engine is a take out from a local plane that my FBO owner friend took care of. Sold it to me for 5K with fresh paint. I'm still considering topping it as it is in 150 HP configuration. Simple day/night VFR with a Dynon 180, Icom A210, $500 brand x handheld GPS, used xponder. A car restorer/custom paint friend of mine is going to shoot for me if I fill up his beer fridge. If I don't overhaul the engine I'll be well under $40K. I cringe when I see all these weekend warrior planes with $40K pannels. I fly a Learjet all over the world with a pretty bad FMS and a garmin 496

side note: I saved at least a grand by making my own lighting system.

reference: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/RV4.htm

I replicated his effort but cut mirrored plexi for the inside of the light compartment for better reflectivity. Cost be about $200 and will blow a whelen system off the ramp!

This is why I like experimental aviation.....
 
I stopped adding it up

I guess that might come back to bite me come tax time, but I did not want to have a record of the cost that my wife could point to anytime she wanted something.. destroy all evidence :)
 
DeltaRomeo said:
About 6 years ago Bob Brashear told me he built his day VFR RV-6 for $28,000. He rebuilt the engine and painted it all himself.

B,
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No Way! The kit new cost at least $20K....unless he purchased the kit used at an auction for nothing?

Built my RV-7A w/ basic IFR panel (VOR, LOC, GS) for $69k.
 
Eagleo6 said:
No Way! The kit new cost at least $20K....unless he purchased the kit used at an auction for nothing?

Built my RV-7A w/ basic IFR panel (VOR, LOC, GS) for $69k.
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Doug is not fibbing.
You have to keep in mind that Bob was one of the early RV-6 builders, and when the complete kit first became available (late 1988) you could buy the whole thing for just under $7000.

Times (and prices), they are a chaaaaaangen.........
 
$28 k

I first flew my -4 for the same amount of money I bought a used government motors suburban. I started it in 1987, bought the kits as I went, a used engine for $2700, a basic VFR panel, and finished in 2002. Then after 200 hours I ovehauled the engine, $9000. Then came a Trutrack autopilot, and then came an AFS panel, then came a real navcom... I now have about $50k in it. And it weighs less now than when if first flew.

Blue skies.
 
cropdusterdave said:
I fly a Learjet all over the world with a pretty bad FMS and a garmin 496
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UNS-1M? I'm hoping to keep my project entirely within a reasonable budget, and can't help but notice that all of the spaceship panels we see here really don't add much to the actual capability of the plane.
 
1989 When my dads RV-4 was completly done, he had spent 120 000 Swedish Kronor, its around 15 000$ But he was very dissapointed because the exchange rate on Dollars almost doubled from he ordered it untill he got the kit to the port in Sweden and had to pay for it :) But as said earlier, that was back in the days when the kit price was a bit lower :cool:

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cheap RV-3

My dad and I started our -3 in 1988, total kit price $5,300.00.:eek: Bought an old Tri-pacer for $3,500.00, used engine and some of the instruments, re-sold the rest for $3,000.00.:) Had engine re-built by airboat guy, $1,500.00. :eek: (before your cringe, he's also a pilot, and today that same engine has compressions in the mid 70's).:D By the time rdadios and instruments were added, the toal came to $10,250.00, flying. Still flys today, check out June 2006 Sport Avaition. Can you build cheap?, Yes you can, also you can load them up with all the latest and greatest. However I am like my father, When my -4 fly later this year, It will be paid for, and the total cost should be about $24,000.00:D
 
This would have to be one of the most interesting threads I've read, and now it's been around a while the naysayers seem to have given up on it so all the posts are useful. I'm working on the empennage on my 6, but have the wing and fuselage kit too, including all tools jigs etc so I'm under no illusion that there's plenty of expense to come, but not much more in the short term. So far I've spent under $13k(NZ), at the moment that's around $10k(US), normally it'd be about $7k(US) but the US/NZ exchange rate is unusually strong(or is that weak?). All kits bought more or less unstarted from original buyers, and quite a bit spent on freighting stuff to New Zealand.
Keep up the posts, it's great reading.
 
If I couldn't find ways to do things more inexpensively (or is it less expensively...or more cheaply?) I just don't think that I'd have much fun building this thing. Sort of a "beating the system" kind of thing. I could spend a bunch of money on it I suppose...but it's just not what blows my skirt up.....
 
Finished my RV-4 in 1988...plans #44...and serial #44. Appropriate!

Pre first flight inspection by Bob Brashear and Noah McCullough.

Won Grand Champion at the EAA Southwest Regional Fly In back in the dark ages when it was in Kerrville TX.

Total cost was just a tad under 20k. The plane now has about 1400 hours.

Since 1988...One new mag, and the other mag I rebuilt once; one alternator brush and bearing replacement; lower motor mounts replaced with new beefed up version. Hmm, that's about it...

What a great design, and I still enjoy every minute I fly it. We're both growing way too old together...

Tom Chapman
San Antonio
 
TomRV8 said:
Finished my RV-4 in 1988...plans #44...and serial #44. Appropriate!

Pre first flight inspection by Bob Brashear and Noah McCullough.

Won Grand Champion at the EAA Southwest Regional Fly In back in the dark ages when it was in Kerrville TX.

Total cost was just a tad under 20k. The plane now has about 1400 hours.

Since 1988...One new mag, and the other mag I rebuilt once; one alternator brush and bearing replacement; lower motor mounts replaced with new beefed up version. Hmm, that's about it...

What a great design, and I still enjoy every minute I fly it. We're both growing way too old together...

Tom Chapman
San Antonio
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That is very cool!
On my home airport is S/N#2 RV-6. The owner Jim Baldwin built it and has flown it over 20 yrs and thousands of hours and it looks great! I had the pleasure of flying it prior to my 1st test flight and it flies great too! Van definitely has it figured out.
 
TomRV8 said:
Finished my RV-4 in 1988...plans #44...and serial #44. Appropriate!

Total cost was just a tad under 20k.Tom Chapman
San Antonio
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In 1803 Thomas Jefferson virtually doubled the size of the then United States with the $15 million Louisiana Purchase. That would scarcely buy a decent Hollywood Hills mansion today. It's amazing how monetary inflation works over time to devalue the dollar. ;)

Personally I'm still waiting for the thread on the "most expensive RV contest". :D
 
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Captain Avgas said:
Personally I'm still waiting for the thread on the "most expensive RV contest". :D
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I know a strong contender, if he's not the winner; thankfully, I'm not in the runnings. Although, being in the running wouldn't be such a bad things as it would mean I have a bit of disposable income.
 
From another point of view

First off, those who shop carefully and take thier time building in order to save some bucks get all of my respect. I personally just don't have the years left in me to build so I have only purchased prebuilt (3) RV's.
My wife and I sold a partially built Lancair kit for a ridiculous $13K. We would have liked to get more but we deciced that it should go to someone who would appreciate a great deal and would finish out the build. We watched the plane come together over a period of 3 years. The builder did a fantastic job and ended up with a completed airplane for around $50K with a new engine, constant speed prop, and IFR instrumentation. Just great planning and patience.
Woodman
 
How to build a REALLY low cost RV.

Here's my take on how to build a really low cost aircraft and win the coveted award for "cheapest RV".

1. Extensively use second hand componenty. The only downside being that on getting airborne you move straight from the expensive build stage to the expensive repair stage.

2. Don't bother painting the aircraft. Just pretend it's completed when in fact it's not.

3. Refuse to add the cost of all tools needed to fabricate (and eventually maintain) the aircraft into the final summation (that alone will save a bundle!).

4. Keep no accurate records of the cost of all actual purchases and just guess a figure at the end of the build. The final figure will in all likelihood be way under but, hey, no-one's checking on you.

5. Leave out all of the basic safety equipment that one would expect to find in a certificated aircraft (with luck you'll probably never need that Halon fire extinguisher anyway).

6. Assume that anything that is not riveted to the aircraft is not a real building cost (that'll get rid of building insurance, transportation costs to an airfield, and hangar rental for final assembly....to name but a few possible items).

7. Quote your build cost in 1980s dollars (big savings there!).

8. Under no circumstances replace componentry damaged during the fabrication process. Just rigidly adopt the popular "bog it up and build on" philosophy.

9. And if all of the above steps fail to produce the savings required, just convince yourself that the final cost of building the aircraft is the fictitious figure you've been spinning to your wife (has the additional benefit of alleviating guilt) . :D

Readers of this thread may be able to think of other neat ways to "reduce" actual build costs. ;)
 
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Cheapest...?

Hi Bob

You forgot point 10: There can never be a "cheapest" RV.....only the "least expensive" RV.....?

;)

Cheers,

Jon.
 
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