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How Much is Your Build Costing? Mine is Currently at...

mfleming

Well Known Member
Patron
So I'm at the point of making some big financial decisions on my build.
Engine prop combo, Avionics, interior, paint etc...

I'm building a -7, slow built wings, QB fuselage. Finish kit is purchased.

Today I dug out all my receipts for everything I've purchased so far...kits, spare parts :rolleyes:, tools :eek: and builder support (been to Synergy a couple of time)

So the basic breakdown is:

Kits = $29,752

Parts = $5,736

Tools = $7,789

Builder Support = $4,250

For a Grand Total of $47,812 (left out a couple of minor things)

So depending on the Engine/Prop combo and the avionics (IFR hopefully) plus interior...I'm looking at almost $130,000 for a completed -7.

How are you doing? Are my numbers far out of line or is this just what it takes this day and age?
 
Completed cost

So I'm at the point of making some big financial decisions on my build.
Engine prop combo, Avionics, interior, paint etc...

I'm building a -7, slow built wings, QB fuselage. Finish kit is purchased.

Today I dug out all my receipts for everything I've purchased so far...kits, spare parts :rolleyes:, tools :eek: and builder support (been to Synergy a couple of time)

So the basic breakdown is:

Kits = $29,752

Parts = $5,736

Tools = $7,789

Builder Support = $4,250

For a Grand Total of $47,812 (left out a couple of minor things)

So depending on the Engine/Prop combo and the avionics (IFR hopefully) plus interior...I'm looking at almost $130,000 for a completed -7.

How are you doing? Are my numbers far out of line or is this just what it takes this day and age?

I have a spreadsheet with every penny counted including tax and shipping. I would say, you're pretty close counting the QB extra cost.
 
I started my project with a loose breakdown between airframe/powerplant/avionics at (33k/33k/33k) for a rough 100k. I'm also fully expecting some cost creep in there so if I come in around 120k for a 0-360/constant speed prop and decent IFR avionics, I'll be happy.

I'm doing a slow build with no help so my airframe cost is basically Van's cost plus shipping. Probably got about 3k in tooling right now.

Since you could spend as much as you want, its probably only useful to talk about how cheap you could build one. I'd guess you could outfit an RV-7 for about 50-60k if you go basic VFR and a used motor/prop.
 
That number seems slightly high but not too much depending on what you do. I keep track of everything and I'm tracking towards 90k-100k maybe 105k after paint for IFR. No quick builds here though. I also haven't outsourced anything except fuel and brake lines.
 
I have a spreadsheet with every penny counted including tax and shipping. I would say, you're pretty close counting the QB extra cost.

I also did this with my -7 slow build - until it went north of $100K. I quit keeping track after that.
 
Canadian

Wow,, 130 K for an RV7 !!
I built a 6 over the years for about 65 Canadian when our currency fluttered between 65 & 75 cents compared to the greenback , kinda d?j? vu this time when I?m pretty sure I can still get my 7eh airborne for a mear 100 K Canadian for an basic glass panel VFR machine with two axis auto pilots on both, I guess having a Scottish background helps , paint seems to be a luxury item with quotes ranging from 10-15 thousand, I just hope I don?t try and paint them myself to save $$
 
I?m about where you are Michael. North of 40K. My plan is to get the engine and prop on for another 40 and use the Vans provided panel and put in the minimum VFR instruments and get the plane in the air while I spend a few years saving for the dream panel. I think I can get basic instruments and an old King radio to do the job.
 
Pretty hard to keep much below $100k now unless you build with a lot of used components. My 7A all new, IO-360, Hartselle CS prop and VFR with Dual 10" Dynon Skyviews, painted myself with basic Flightline interior $100k. No extras except the 2nd screen at about $5k. I had tools and experience so they are excluded.

To get back to the original posting, I took the time now to look back and catalog the costs as follows with nothing outsourced to help others get a better idea: There are additional costs that Vans does not estimate like costs to make it a plane like taxes, DAR fees etc, wiring and other misc. costs and somehow the FWF always gets neglected and considered as incidental.

Plane Structure- kits 26
instruments 19
FWF 6
lights, fairings, interior 2.5
paint and prep supplies 3
Engine/prop 37
Vans non-kit parts 1.2
Taxes, insure , admin 2.7
other, wiring, misc 2.5

Total 99.9
 
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Add me to the "I don't want to know" category. 7A QB, new IO-390, Hartz Composite C/S, AFS quick panel, upgraded mount nose gear, pro paint, full classic aero leather, and on and on and I'm still not flying yet - but soon! :)
 
For me, the “recreation and education” aspect of building an airplane means I don’t want to be an accountant. That sounds like a job, and I’m now retired. :D

P.S. Why include the cost of the tools in the cost of the airplane? Unless you plan to sell them with the plane? I’ll probably sell some of my tools but keep some of them for maintenance and Conditional Inspections.
 
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It all adds up

Estimated cost for RV6A commenced in 1994

Already spent:
Demo ride Oshkosh 1992 with Jerry van Grunsven $0
Vans kits and parts $20,000
Lycoming O-320 mid time incl bulk strip $7,000
FP prop $2,300
Extra tools $1,500
Workshop shed to build plane $22,000
Hangar to house plane $25,000
Block of land for airstrip $200,000
House to live by airstrip $300,000

Still to spend:
Instruments= basic VFR $12,000
Paint and upholstery $6,000 by builder
Paperwork $2,000

I don't know if I want to add it all up! But I know it will be worth it!!
 
P.S. Why include the cost of the tools in the cost of the airplane?

Because the cost of purchasing construction tools is part of the genuine cost of building an aircraft. How can anyone logically argue otherwise. If you don’t believe me ...ask your wife. :D
 
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Because the cost of purchasing construction tools is part of the genuine cost of building an aircraft. How can anyone logically argue otherwise. If you don?t believe me ...ask your wife. :D

My wife fully trusts me to make the right decisions in my airplane project. Her concern is quality not the cheapest cost. She reminds me frequently that she will be riding with me. There is a quotation that goes something like this:

?The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.? Benjamin Franklin

Tools are Expense items (Accounting term) not Capital. Otherwise they would be sold with the airplane.
 
For me, the ?recreation and education? aspect of building an airplane means I don?t want to be an accountant. That sounds like a job, and I?m now retired. :D

P.S. Why include the cost of the tools in the cost of the airplane? Unless you plan to sell them with the plane? I?ll probably sell some of my tools but keep some of them for maintenance and Conditional Inspections.

I'm an accountant by profession and the last thing I want to do is more accounting work on the weekends! But, not doing so would probably be irresponsible. Confessions of an accountant: At the moment I don't have a total for you!

Ryan
 
Another category ought to be infrastructure, for things like tape, materials for jigs (if needed), hold-down straps, things like that. These are things that reasonably can be used around the house rather than airplane-specialty items like a rivet gun or prop. On my RV-3B project, it's accrued over $1,100 so far.

The biggest individual amounts, are in the $60 range for wing jig parts. That is what the largest number of entries are for, too.

Speaking of tape, I've got a whole drawer full of different kinds of tape. I never, never would have thought that I'd need a drawer just for tape.

Dave
 
Yep, that how the numbers add up and prices go up each year. About the same as depreciation . . . . and a whale of a lot better than cars. Cars are horribly expensive by comparison.


So . . . . it's an investment!!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
Building Costs

RV-8A Quick Build
6 1/2 year project (I have a real job with a lot of travel) 2006 - 2012
Tools, Kits, AFS-3500 with AOA (upgraded to 4500), SL-30, TruTrak ADI II, Garmin 496, GTX-327, PS Audio Panel, ICOM backup radio; back up instruments.
Aerosport new IO-360, Hartzell C/S prop
Avionics wired by Stark; panel cutting outsourced; paint by GLO
Shipping - The Fedex and UPS guys were my new best friends.
I recorded all purchases - even minor stuff from Radio Shack and Home Depot.

$130K - and worth every penny.
1200+ hours and counting! Flown from CA to PA and back 21 times so far.
 
I am keeping track of expenses too RV-10

I am keeping track of expenses and hours. I do separate out tools and consumables from aircraft parts. I want to know how much I am spending so I can remind myself not to go too far overboard. My definition of "too far" changes based on what new products come out and the comfort and safety my wife and I want when she will be flying with me.

I do try to find efficiencies by buying things when the price is right as opposed to when I need them. For example, I am 2+ years away from flying but found an Air Conditioning System Arctic Air, for 1/3 of the list price. I found the exact certified mil-spec wire needed on eBay in bulk at about 25% of list. Same with FiberFrax and tools. Things of importance like fasteners, metal angles I purchase from the suppliers listed on this site.

I found my engine on eBay and bought both that the seller had available at a decent core price. Rhonda from Barrett Precision Engines helped me understand the pedigree of the engines by calling Lycoming and I did a pre-buy and sent them pictures. I witnessed BPE tearing down one of the two purchased and it was a great core plus a great learning experience. Rhonda bought the second core from me. They are waiting for my final decisions and timing to rebuild it.

It does take time to track this stuff, I find it informative. It also takes away from building hours. I feel it is helping me keep my wish list in check. PS: I also keep track of a wish list. Not just stuff I already purchased but stuff I want and need to purchase so I always have a price at completion and am ready to procure something if it becomes available from my wish list.

Happy Holidays
 
For me, the ?recreation and education? aspect of building an airplane means I don?t want to be an accountant. That sounds like a job, and I?m now retired. :D

Don, your cost was so long ago that it should be fully depreciated so it does not count. Aren't you on the 20 year build plan?
 
I'm impressed

My RV-7A came in at $185K. Full build assist at Synergy Air in Eugene. It was a project airplane I bought - had to rebuild tail and canopy, plus new engine was overhauled due to corrosion.

This number includes all the expenses of living in Eugene off and on for about a year and a half.

The RV-10 I'm building will be over $300K - also full build assistance (slow build wings and fuselage). Fortunately, I can drive to Synergy Air South and spend every night at home.

Worth every penny in both cases.
 
My first build, a 2003 RV6 (5 year build) cost approximately $75K with a marginally capable IFR panel. I then upgraded a couple items to improve IFR safety for about $10K. Sold the airplane when my company (Delta Airlines) went bankrupt 3 months after I retired and terminated my retirement, and so I sold the RV6 for $83K in 2005. Built an RV8 (shortly after bankruptcy because my wife felt so sorry for me) in 2 years for about $110K, with original non-Touch G3X IFR panel, finished in 2008, and sold it for $100K in 2015 when I retired from my second flying job (because I had to). One year later, found a way with a partner to build another RV8. This one cost about $130K as others have said, with a modern G3X Touch panel that won awards at Sun-N-Fun. Partner problems necessitated selling, which we did for $125K.
Bottom line - it costs more than you think it will, it will probably take longer, and you will NEVER get a penny for your labor. There are, of course, exceptions to this rule, and I?m sure someone will post up success stories, but it?s not something you should plan on.
BUT - something you will almost certainly be struck with - you are hooked, and hope springs eternal. My latest project is an RV4 - the most bang for the buck you can find in general aviation. I am upgrading several things right now, some of which need immediate attention, namely ADS-B - and I won?t make the cut-off date, so I get to discover how to jump through those hoops. However, I?ll end up with a hugely capable - almost IFR capable - VFR airplane that flies as good as any RV ever built, and it will end up costing me less than half of what the 3 airplanes I built cost.
To more clearly answer the original OP?s question: how much does it cost? I think the 50-60K an earlier poster mentioned is very optimistic. But starting simple, like you said you wanted is a good idea I think. But you should understand that later upgrading to that impressive IFR setup will still end up costing nearly that $130K figure overall that has been estimated here, and that?s in today?s dollars.
 
Without the Airplane

For a 2-screen, 2-com panel with ADS-B in/out, exterior lights, an IO-360, 200RV prop, 60 amp alternator, regulator, governor, but no airplane, the price runs a cool $63,304.

This does not include harnesses, engine controls, interior, fuel pump, fuel filter, any other after-market items, tools, paint, primer, etc. I used Dynon HDX to estimate the prices.

Remember - this is with no airplane.

Dave
 
I am keeping track of expenses and hours. I do separate out tools and consumables from aircraft parts. I want to know how much I am spending so I can remind myself not to go too far overboard.

Builders who ignore the cost of tools and consumables in their calculation of build cost are just fooling themselves big time. It doesn?t matter if the purchase ends up on the aircraft or not....if you need to buy it to get the plane flying then it?s part of the build cost. I spent literally hundreds of dollars on just sandpaper and solvents....and no one can convince me that was not a real cost of building the aircraft. Likewise for tools, likewise for transportation costs, likewise for construction insurance etc etc. To think otherwise is just ?creative accounting? by builders who want to believe their aircraft cost them less to build than it actually did. ;)
 
Choices determine the cost

How are you doing? Are my numbers far out of line or is this just what it takes this day and age?

Once upon a time it did not take over $100K to build a 2 seat RV. And I don't think that's due to inflation, or losing track of how much we've spent on sandpaper and other low cost items, or buying tools that we REALLY NEEDED and did not already have.

I'm amazed at how much work can now be outsourced: airframe construction (QB or assist), panels, wiring harnesses, super paint jobs for $10k-$20k. That would all add a bit to the finished cost. And I'm also amazed at what CAN go into a panel, lighting, AP, upholstery, after-market fittings etc.

The way to keep the cost down "back then" was to: build it the way Van intended it, do most of the work yourself, install a used engine, fixed pitch prop, panel for day VFR, auto engine gauges, possibly second-hand instruments and radio etc.

I fly with a couple of buddies, one has an older RV-6, the other a newer RV-7A. This -6 is as simple as it gets with 160 hp. The -7A has a fully integrated IFR panel, custom interior, custom paint job, autopilot and lots of buttons to push and color graphics to watch. Guess which one is more fun to go fly in? ;)
 
Guess which one is more fun to go fly in? ;)

While you do make some very good points keep in mind this isn't the shared opinion of all. I bet the -6 is more fun to fly in the sense of feeling the plane and the simplicity of it but I for one really enjoy the more technical side of flying. Being able to fly instrument approaches for the fun of it is what I consider fun. Unfortunately my version of fun costs more. :D
 
Here comes the penny pincher. Slowbuilt 9 no primer no paint, wood prop, used round gages, new (the cheapest) factory engine, every tax, tool, delivery and fee included. Bought some new stuff at reduced price, bought some aftermarket parts at full price. Came at seventy three thousand two hundred eighty plus some change before first flight. Stretched over 5 years. All local hardware store expendables counted. DAR fee included. Selling the tools down the road helped with gas a bit :)
 
Here comes the penny pincher. Slowbuilt 9 no primer no paint, wood prop, used round gages, new (the cheapest) factory engine, every tax, tool, delivery and fee included. Bought some new stuff at reduced price, bought some aftermarket parts at full price. Came at seventy three thousand two hundred eighty plus some change before first flight. Stretched over 5 years. All local hardware store expendables counted. DAR fee included. Selling the tools down the road helped with gas a bit :)

I built my RV-10 on the penny pincher method also. I took great care when ordering my kits to delete unused items with those I would upgrade. All my kits were new from the factory. A lot of the accessories were purchased here on the forum at a nice discount. My prop was new from Van's and the engine was a late model V4A5 with only 191 hours TTSN that had a mild prop strike that I went through. That was purchased from Wentworth. Even with 6 new Millennium cylinder power assemblies, I was at less than half the cost of a brand new engine from Van's. Simple cloth interior from Flightline, no fancy aftermarket IP or overhead console (I fabricated my own), Full Garmin G3X 3 screen IFR glass panel from Steinair, I wired myself. DIY painted. I made a decent profit when I sold that plane. EVERYTHING I could do myself, I did. EVERYTHING I could fabricate myself, I did that also. Some people can afford to build with an open checkbook. I am not one of them. :eek:
 
I've spent more for fuel and oil than I did building :)

Now that is a WIN!

For some on-topic content, my father (a consummate scrounger) built the RV-6 I am flying for less than $50k all in. It did take him 17 years, but he did *everything* himself.
 
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Don't look at the -10 numbers!!!

On the 10, you could go QB everything, all Garmin glass panel, and a 25K paint job and you would still be 1/3 of the cost of a new Cirrus !!! And, you would probably be faster and have more useful load !! These things (all models) outperform the "store bought" airplanes by a wide margin, especially when you throw in the maintenance costs of certified verses experimental:).
 
I have a motor that needs disassembly and reassembly(IO-360 FI) but after that, I am currently in south of $20K, not by much. VFR AFS 5600 no autopilot.
Carbon Catto fixed pitch prop. Plan on having the motor parts done professionally and assembling myself with the help of veteran motor guy.
If I don't go with the AFS I can subtract another $4K.
I scoured the interwebs...it can be done.
 
I was about $93K into my first flight. Since then, paint, upholstery, O2 system, etc, etc, has pushed the cost up even higher. I did do just about every upgrade that was available. Van's cost estimator is woefully unrealistic. In the big scheme of things, having a brand new airplane with everything you want on it is priceless.
 
On the 10, you could go QB everything, all Garmin glass panel, and a 25K paint job and you would still be 1/3 of the cost of a new Cirrus !!! And, you would probably be faster and have more useful load !! These things (all models) outperform the "store bought" airplanes by a wide margin, especially when you throw in the maintenance costs of certified verses experimental:).

And actually sell at a profit! ;)(Just don’t divide the profit by the true build hours.):eek:
 
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No earthly good can come from these evil calculations.

Hobbies do not require financial justification.

-Dave
 
Building a 3B. All slow build. Slider (10 months for that). Used engine that I rebuilt myself. New cyl Assm. Custom exhaust by Vetterman. A work of art. Custom motor mount. Painted everything myself. PPG. Steam gauges. Fold down GPS Becker radio and txp. Simple lighting. B&C starter and alt. Wood prop. Saber ext. another work of art. Made custom seat with three densities of foam. Will have it covered in leather. Many custom features that just took time.

Guessing about 4K hours so far, probably more. Custom glass work took ten times longer than I thought.

Have really enjoyed the challenge

Have 45K invested. Not including tools that I had from a 6 kit

Bob Grigsby
J3 Cub flying regularly. One of the benefits of living in Kalifornia
3B. Will be starting engine in about a month. What is a month in RV build time?
 
I did do just about every upgrade that was available. Van's cost estimator is woefully unrealistic.
Not sure if you made the connection, Bruce, but the first sentence above explains the opinion expressed in the second. :rolleyes:

With a new Aerosport Power engine, new Catto, and new Dynon D180 based day/night VFR cross country panel, I found Vans cost estimator + 10% to be right on for me, but then I intentionally avoided (almost) every upgrade that was available, especially those that added weight without adding performance. Almost 8 years into flying and I still get a grin every time I fly! :)
 
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How much is spent is directly related to what engine/avionics you deem acceptable.

The above is very much tied to the value when done also.

Hard to compare someone using bare bones/used avionics and a mid time used engine -vs- brand new engine, full new EFIS.

For my RV9a, somewhere around 90k mark, but adding things up didn't advance the project any further so that number is just a guess. I can make more money if needed, I can't go back and redo a choice in building I would regret for the time I own it as easy.
 
These numbers (and of course certified prices) are the key factor driving used RV values.

So, be of good cheer. Most of us thought our new RVs were too expensive back when, but now a nice one brings a very reasonable percentage of original cost. You're not spending too much money (click your heels together and repeat after me...), you're just parking it.

No earthly good can come from these evil calculations.

Right on brother. At checkout time, I'm not going to regret a single nickel.
 
Free aeroplane

I paid for all of the aircraft kits and parts as I built and only as I could afford it at the time.

It owes me nothing and now I have a free aeroplane.

It really is the best free aircraft that I have ever owned.

I intend to enjoy it for a long time.

Priceless !!!!
 
My RV7 build estimator is up to 165k, and it's missing quite a few prices for components. We've budgetted 200k to make up for anything we missed in the estimate.
 
I started my project with a loose breakdown between airframe/powerplant/avionics at (33k/33k/33k) for a rough 100k. I'm also fully expecting some cost creep in there so if I come in around 120k for a 0-360/constant speed prop and decent IFR avionics, I'll be happy.

I'm doing a slow build with no help so my airframe cost is basically Van's cost plus shipping. Probably got about 3k in tooling right now.

Since you could spend as much as you want, its probably only useful to talk about how cheap you could build one. I'd guess you could outfit an RV-7 for about 50-60k if you go basic VFR and a used motor/prop.

Added up my receipts after flying for a few months. Wife said she knew the cost all the time and was ok with it. I was off in my head by about 30K. Had to call the insurance company and increase hull coverage!!
 
Added up my receipts after flying for a few months. Wife said she knew the cost all the time and was ok with it. I was off in my head by about 30K. Had to call the insurance company and increase hull coverage!!

I?d say this is very typical. Many RV builders have no accurate assessment of the true cost of building their aircraft because they do not keep detailed records of ALL legitimate expenditure. Others just ignore real costs such as tools, consumables, transport, insurance etc etc.
I had a good friend who started building his RV7 at exactly the same time that I started building my RV7A. We did a lot of riveting together on both aircraft. The fit-outs on the two aircraft were virtually identical and they both progressed at a similar pace. I kept meticulous records of every single purchase down to the last sheet of sandpaper...and he kept no records at all (he said he didn?t want to stress himself out by knowing the actual cost). At a particular point in the build when I had $130k invested in my project I asked him how much he thought he had spent on his project and he said: ?About $90k?. Both aircraft were virtually identical in features and build progress so I concluded that he was underestimating his real build cost to that point by about $40k.
 
All of my receipts went into a file. I just didn?t want to know at the time. Did pay as you go. Thought if I knew the exact amount that was going into it I was afraid of chickening out on the project.

No regrets now. A flying airplane is worth more than the sum of the parts (in my mind). A kit, not so much.
 
Value of time

I wonder about what is the value of our own time, if we really want to know what is the full cost of a completed build.

Assuming between 2000 to 4000 hours of builder time, valued at between $30 and $90 per hour (just rough numbers for the discussion), this would contribute from a low of $60K to a high of $360K to the cost.
 
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