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Smoke oil- what's your recipe?

T

Tony Spicer

Well Known Member
Been bench testing hardware for the last week and that's the easy part. Local price on form oil is $550 for a 55 gal drum, and for Aeroshell smoke oil, $611. Smoke might be fun, but not at that price.

www.smokingairplanes.com says that if it isn't real smoke oil, then don't use it.

http://www.smokingairplanes.com/smokingairplanes_smokesystem_smokeoil.htm

I've looked at MSDS's, flash points and autoignition points for most everything that's been pumped out of the ground and refined. I've been thru the VAF archives. It appears folks have used everything from JP-4 to diesel to transmission fluid.

If you're currently mixing your own and are happy with the results, I would love to hear what works.

If you're a greenie, a treehugger, or your cousin Vinnie used to fly R/C and make his own smoke oil, please hold your comments until the thread starts to die out.

thanks,

Tony
 
Tony, sounds like you've been bitten by the formation flying bug, very cool! You'll be flying with SH guys, enjoy it.

Fly safe,
 
I too have tried about everything out there with mixed results. In the end it's really worth your time to just look up an oil supplier and buy some corvus oil (I bought a barrel of it) - normally sold as concrete form release oil. It's paraffin based, leaves a gorgeous white smoke that is dense and hangs a long time and leaves less mess on the belly.

Lots of stuff will make smoke, but none as good as the aformentioned.

Cheers,
Stein
 
randylervold said:
Tony, sounds like you've been bitten by the formation flying bug, very cool! You'll be flying with SH guys, enjoy it.

Fly safe,
Click to expand...

Yep, I have. If you have any leads on mail order diploma mills for a commercial ticket, please pass the info along.

And a big congrats on the new job! If you need to borrow a fabric iron, let me know.

Tony
 
See Stein's post for the BEST smoke oil.

Concrete form release oil and smoke oil are one in the same thing.

Growing up in Pennsylvania to a poor family, my father used diesel as concrete form release oil because it worked just as well on wood forms as did the expensive form release oil.

The correct EPA disposal method for concrete form release oil is to VAPORIZE it. Guess what happens when you inject it into your exhaust?

DO NOT use BIO-DIESEL in your smoke system. It will PLUG up your injector(s).

Just about any petroleum product that you can put through the smoke system will smoke. You do not want to use ATF or motor oil. You WILL end up with more of it on the belly than in the air.

Jet A will smoke but it catches catch fire very easily in a crash or spill. (not as bad as gas but still will catch fire with a match) If you add some ATF or motor oil, you can make it so that it does not catch fire as easy but it still does not smoke well. 50' behind the airplane, it is GONE to CLEAR sky. (Where maybe it is a little longer than that but when you get it FREE, you have a tendency to try to make it work by adding ATF or used motor oil.)

Diesel is the cheapest product that produces reasonable smoke. Have seen two identical aircraft with identical smoke systems but with different smoke oil. One had Concrete Form Release Oil and the other had Diesel. From the ground, you could not tell the difference from the aircraft back a few hundred feet. After that, the diesel dissipated while the concrete form release oil had a longer HANG time.

I cannot recommend that you use diesel for liability reasons. IF you were to use diesel, it stinks much more then concrete form release oil. Of different smoke oil formulas, it is the CHEAPEST that you can buy.

Use the info in the post at your own risk. The info may only be worth as much as you paid for it.
 
Orchex

I've been using Orchex and am satisfied. Last Dec. a 55 barrel delivered in FL was $450 and I think that included the deposit.
 
I am in the oil business and I sell smoke oil,

But, I am currently out and I am working on getting some more.. so I am not looking for orders, but If I order a semiload, I am going to be looking for customers.

There has been alot of problems with smoke oil lately and here is why.

The new Passenger Car Motor Oil PCMO specs require a type of oil called Group II. These are much more severly hydrotreated and have lower volatility to reduce oil comsumption in the crankcase. As a result nearly all the base oil refineries have installed hydro-treaters and some of the products that have worked well for years as smoke oil are not smoking well at all anymore.

What you need for good smoke oil is a Group I paraffinic base oil in the 70 SUS or 4 cst @ 100c range. That equates to an ISO 22 or SAE 5w. Corvus seems to still be working based on the reports I get but some other oil suppliers just use the group II base oils they have on hand for the small volumes of the specialty oils (like form oil) and when that happens the oil doesnt smoke, it just bathes the belly in oil....

Mixing diesel or jet fuel is dangerous and can result in a big fire.... Smoke oil will burn as well and there have been incidents of smoke oil fires but they are rare.

I am probably going to be forced to buy a semiload of Group I base oil for smoke oil, and if I do, I will be selling it again.

The stuff I sell smokes very well I have sold 1000s of gallons to numerous Airshows, Aerobatic pilots, and Ag operators...

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
Thanks for all the great posts on the subject. I just called MDW for superdry smoke oil - holly liquid nectar batman, that stuff would be $90 for 4 gallons delivered. At 1gal/min that is $22/min or a mere $1,350/hr of smoke. I hope whoever is watching appreciates it :). I though smoke oil was based on cheap mineral oil... at that price I will use diesel - a little hang time is not worth $22/minute!

There seems to be a difference between different form release oils. Some say it stinks, others say it dosent. Some say it is bad juju, some say it is identical to SuperDry (which is supposedly . The best price I can find around here is $560 for a 55gal drum of Shell oil delivered, or $58 for a 5gal pail if I drive to Escondido to pick it up. Any better suggestions in the San Diego (or possibly L.A.) area?

Doug, be sure to let us know if you get a supply in..
 
Machine Oil

I called a wholesale oil supplier in Marietta, GA, S.A.White Oil company and sent the specs for smoke oil and they got us barrels of I think it is 10wt. machine oil with the same specs.
In April, it was $400.40 for the barrel, or $7.28 a gallon.
Hangs good.
 
White Oil

Just bought 55gal drum of white oil 65/75 ,it is food grade mineral oil for 567.60 delivered to my dock from a local oil co . It works great and has NO smell at all but is still more than I want to pay . I have used freedom form oil and it works fine but does smell funky . Super dry is good but the most expensive of all . I was talking with Jerry Morris this past weekend at a local flyin and I think I will try his recipe next .
 
more white oil

For those of you in the San Marcos, TX area, have a look at this:

http://www.steoil.com/catalog.asp?category=oil&application=all

The Crystal Plus 70T is $422/55 gal. Read the MSDS at the link to get the specs. I bought a gallon for ground testing and it worked fine.

And if you're interested in a deal on 330 gallons of the stuff located in Austin, TX, have a look here:

http://www.zerowastenetwork.org/renewdev/index.cfm?Page=browsebytype&Type=A&ID=06

Scroll about half way down the page and you'll see it.

Tony
 
Froggy's Fog Aviation Smoke Oil

Hey there, I own a company that manufactures smoke fluid/oils for all types of smoke generators, both water based and various types of oil based. I can tell you that we have been working on "colored" smoke in either product line for the military and training services but can't find a way to make it effectively work.. It is always toxic or permanently stains whatever it contacts. As a fellow pilot, I too would love to make the colored smoke work but, so far it is a no go. We have been working on this for 8 years now and some of the best minds is science have worked on it even longer. As far as smoke oil... we sell a gallon for around $20.00 US. My company is called Froggy's Fog and can be reached via the web at: www.froggysfog.com . Later this year we will launch our new site for pilots at: avsmoke.com which currently links back to our fire training site. I would love to be a guest on this forum for smoke related questions. FYI, if you want to "go it alone" and do your own fluid you need to stay between 40 and 70 wt. depending on temps and EET. Hope this helps!
Chris
 
Chris,
I'm afraid you won't get much business at $20.00 a gallon, at least from the folks that use this forum.
 
smoke oil type

From the responses in this thread, it's apparent that it's still hard to find good smoke oil locally. First I want to thank Groucho on suggesting SmokingJohn for the smoke system. It works great, and great assistance from the small business. One of the local long time competitive Pitts drivers recommended 76UNAX AW 34, which we could get locally in 5 gallon buckets from an oil company in lower Alabama at about $8 a gallon. Almost clear, and very little smell. Here's a first shot pic on take-off:
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt228/willymac104/Smokeon.jpg
I'm still looking for a local source for the concrete form oil, but this will do till I find it and compare. Will try and make a video with camera facing aft in the near future with the Sky Dancing routine.

Happy Day After Thanksgiving.
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
Sky Dancer
 
Lubspar 107

I am using LUBSPAR 107 parafin based smoke oil. Got it for $368 for a 55 gal drum about 6 months ago. If your in the DFW area, I can hook you up with my supplier.
Or I could e-mail you the MSDS to find something locally. I cleared it with Smoking Airplanes.
It makes a GREAT smoke!

DOUG
 
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