synthetic vision and efis IPAD

Hello everyone;

Just got a new IPAD and sky pro bluetooth gps receiver. I have already downloaded forflight app. But I was wondering, which efis with synthetic vision is
best and reliable for the IPAD?

Thanks
Bob
RV6a 10hrs 30 to go.

I will go way out on a limb here and risk getting flamed. But first, background.
I was chief pilot at Chelton when they took synthetic vision to Alaska to prove that it worked. I have hundreds of flights all over the world looking at the terrain and nav data presented in a forward looking plane... vs. just a god's eye view on a moving map. Each company has its subtleties and have answered the human factors questions in their own way. Chelton has faded from view since it was so expensive. Aspen and Dynon and Garmin followed on the 100K pages of documentation that laid the ground work for synthetic vision with the FAA. The line between certified and experimental has been crossed as well. All good for the consumer in my mind. So where I am going with this? An ipad is not the ideal place to display attitude information. The cost for doing SV on your panel... bolted down and calibrated is not that high these days. Dynon has extraordinary customer support in the RV market. Software has matured to a very good place in development. All the AHRS sensors buried in portable devices from the Stratus and even now the GDL 39 are cute and bluetooth or wi fi sends all kinds of info to your pads....
But, in an RV... there is very little space. (unless someone has magically expanded the cubic feet over my 9A and I am unaware) That space is exponentially being filled with cords, patch antennas, RAM mounts ad nauseum.
The best place for glass is bolted to the panel. And the discipline to remember to look out the window on a regular schedule is important, beyond what you might think. The "color tv" is a visual magnet. Seen it happen in everything from C185's on floats to Citation jets. Nobody in the front office looking out the window on climb out. RV's are huge fun. Don't let an ipad wreck your whole day... just because the marketing folks have convinced you to add every possible app that you can. OK, I am done. Fly safe folks.

flightlogic said:

I will go way out on a limb here and risk getting flamed. But first, background.
I was chief pilot at Chelton when they took synthetic vision to Alaska to prove that it worked. Chelton has faded from view since it was so expensive. OK, I am done. Fly safe folks.

Click to expand...

Well, not exactly. Chelton was expensive, but plenty of people were willing to pay the price for what was a very good system. Then their exclusive distributor closed shop overnight and absconded with a lot of customer's money. Ask Stein about that. I lost $30,000 to those scumbags. Chelton's response was to give us the opportunity to buy second systems from them, then they withdrew from the experimental market altogether, abandoning their customers.

I agree with your basic premise re glass panels vrs. iPads, but please don't sugar coat Chelton's abysmal behavior. OK, I am done.

Jim Berry
RV-10

flightlogic

Nick,

Thanks for your perspective on this topic. It helps with my future decisions on avionics placement.

Regards

I couldn't agree more. Maybe it's because I am not an Apple fan but an iPad are not aircraft grade.

I cannot say enough about the quality of my SkyView and the same can be said for the other EFIS systems out there.

When I fly with friends who have tablets in their planes, they are always in the way, I have to take my glasses off to read their dim screens, etc.

iPads have their place

While iPads have their place, I have not elected synthetic vision add on yet. Garmin just came out with their ap that seems to have all the bells and whistles and more vendors will add these features too. But I would wait on avionics, in an iPad or in panel until Airventure. As mentioned, I find my full sized IPAD large even in my Cherokee, let alone how it will be in the 14A. I am planning on the Dynon Skyview for my main and a mini pad in the panel with the in dash plastic mount. Can't remember brand. But just as with my certified plane, I will use the iPad and bad elf as back up to the Dynon. In the Cherokee, my two "hand held" GPS iPad and Lorance are far more helpful for cross country trips than VORs and the like.

Hmmm.

wings05rv6a said:

Hello everyone;

Just got a new IPAD and sky pro bluetooth gps receiver. I have already downloaded forflight app. But I was wondering, which efis with synthetic vision is
best and reliable for the IPAD?

Thanks
Bob
RV6a 10hrs 30 to go.

Click to expand...

Not really sure what your question is but I will share some thoughts.

If you are looking for packages to run on your iPad *in addition to Foreflight* then I do not have good suggestion.

There are apps that compete with Foreflight (WingX, Garmin Pilot etc) that offer "attitude" screens and some offer a form of "Synthetic Vision" as well.

Reliability is similar for all three (I have each).

Now, even though I have "synthetic vision" available on my iPad, I ONLY use the Synthetic Vision offered by my IN PANEL EFIS. In my case it is a GRT offering. Think of the in panel units as "industrial strength" versions of something that you REALLY want to be able to always be able to trust.

There is a LOT more that goes into these units than what is in an iPad. Now, the iPad is GREAT for a LOT of things in the cockpit but if I NEED synthetic vision, I want it to be right there in front of me on the thing that I am also trusting for airspeed and altitude.

But, if you decide to go with the iPad, make sure and get as much AHRS as you can find to talk to it. There are several independent GPS/ADS-B players that offer AHRS devices that integrate with the iPad and multiple applications. See iLevil, SkyRadar etc. If you visit their websites, you will see various "apps" that offer synthetic vision.

James

Ask yourself this.

"Can I really keep a good lookout at all times whilst using this stuff ?"

If you can, do you think all the pilots of other aircraft can too (....and are actually doing so ?)

Just because "mid air's" are very rare does not mean they don't happen, and that's even when you are 100% looking out of the window.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against "glass" technology (there's a Dynon in my 'RV). It just worries me that 1) I can't honestly answer "yes" to my first question and 2) I had a "mid air" a couple of years ago when I was 100% focused on lookout and still never saw the other aircraft.

My current philosophy is to use the "glass" to monitor and alert me when I need to know something. The rest of the time I'm just more interested in looking through the window. After all, the view is mostly what I go up to see - and it's also much safer !.

Like James saiid check out iLevil. His comment on panel grade instruments is understated.

All the warnings about looking out the window apply but to both glass and non-glass panels. Good advice but not relevant to your question.

My personal opinion is the iPad is a great flight planning tool but no more than a fair back up in the cockpit. Mine stays in my flight bag now. Why? The iPad isn't sunlight visible under some common conditions, battery life is marginal, and I had GPS issues with mine an rare occasions. YMMV.

Jim, I truly am sorry for the experience you had with the owners of Direct To.
We at Chelton were as shocked as the rest of the pilot population. My dismay includes the fact that our legal system did not see fit to apply jail sentences and restitution.
Back on the tablet subject, I should make it clear that I carry an iPad and find it a great tool. Synthetic Vision is where I draw the line. Bringing up even FlyQ for thirty seconds in the car on a CAVU day means my name and N number are on record with DUATS and the FAA as getting a WX brief. Amazing technology we have. But a pilot who has to keep a flying machine upright in a cloud better not count on a gadget. Even a Dynon D1 firmly attached and running on batteries internally is light years ahead of any pad or tablet. The really scary software is that which purports to show attitude instruments based on gps data alone.
Even some very high dollar AHRS boxes were tumbled by LAPD in constant bank turns. But this took some long orbits to induce. Software fixed it in time.
Today we can enjoy a reliable panel mounted mems sensor system for 1/10th the cost of standby attitude in our RV's vs those required to have blessing from the Feds. Read about the Mid Continent SAM and get a price quote. You will smile all the way to your Spruce catalog on your desk. Keep safe.

The iFly App for the ipad

works very well ---- I use a iFly 720 in my -6A, along with WingX on the iPad. The new iFly (Adventure Pilot) App for the iPad is really very good and the resolution seems to be better than Foreflight or WingX.

there are many good solutions..

wings05rv6a said:

Hello everyone;

Just got a new IPAD and sky pro bluetooth gps receiver. I have already downloaded forflight app. But I was wondering, which efis with synthetic vision is
best and reliable for the IPAD?

Thanks
Bob
RV6a 10hrs 30 to go.

Click to expand...

Hey Bob,

Levil Technology has all kinds of gadgets to achieve what you want to do. The iLevil series is an evolution from an electronic gyro that was certified to be used in general aviation. Unlike other "crude" portable systems, all of our products are professionally calibrated to behave like a true gyro. Although this one is not certified (to keep costs down), it offers same or superior performance than an AHRS normally found in a common RV installation. The difference is that the iLevil has a WiFi transmitter to port the information over to a High-Res Display.. like your iPad.

If you are looking for a flush mount.. take a look at this company... no compromises between analog or glass: FlyPad mount

If you are unsure of what Synthetic Vision App, here are some options:

WingX Pro7 (in-flight screen shot in Florida), not as detailed as some of the other Apps, $99 yearly subscription, but overall App is highly recommended:


Xavion (in-flight screenshot in Fl), super detailed SV including high-ways in the sky, obstacles and runways, $99 flat (no subscription):



FlyQ EFB: super detailed SV, including highways in the sky, requires subscriptions for the maps (i believe SV is included), no compatibilisy with iLevil AW yet (thus no indicated airspeed, only Ground speed shown):



AirNav Pro: SV based on Google Earth.. super detailed and includes 3D waypoints, which is extremely helpful when using full screen SV. Flat fee for the 3D terrain per state:


If you don't want to pay a subscription because all you need is a backup AI with 3D terrain, then I recommend Xavion, it is really impressive what this app does. If you are looking for an all-in-one solution (VFR charts etc).. then I recommend downloading the 30-day trials.

If SV is not necessary.. then you have plenty of other good options that are also compatible with the iLevil (both Android and iPad)

and if you want to go the extra mile... the iLevil also incorporates the engine information from the grand Rapids EIS:


like I said.. plenty of gadgets..
I see if I can post some pictures of our RV9 panel..

Ananda Leon
Software engineer at Levil Technology
Fly Straight and Levil

"What she said"

anandaleon said:

Hey Bob,

Levil Technology has all kinds of gadgets to achieve what you want to do. The iLevil series is an evolution from an electronic gyro that was certified to be used in general aviation. Unlike other "crude" portable systems, all of our products are professionally calibrated to behave like a true gyro. Although this one is not certified (to keep costs down), it offers same or superior performance than an AHRS normally found in a common RV installation. The difference is that the iLevil has a WiFi transmitter to port the information over to a High-Res Display.. like your iPad.

<<<< SOME STUFF SNIPPED OUT >>>>


and if you want to go the extra mile... the iLevil also incorporates the engine information from the grand Rapids EIS:

like I said.. plenty of gadgets..
I see if I can post some pictures of our RV9 panel..

Ananda Leon
Software engineer at Levil Technology
Fly Straight and Levil

Click to expand...

I have actually validated the operation of most of the items mentioned by Ananda, and did some testing of their APP, including getting data out to it from the GRT EIS4000.

A friend of mine is building an RV8 with just two items on the panel ...
- a 12" GRT HXr
- a standard size iPad

The iPad is his BACKUP device and he is integrating one of the Levil units (AW I think) that will give him GPS, Airspeed and Altitude for the iPad as well as ADS-B IN for the iPad *and* the GRT HXr.

Ananda and her crew have been great to work with so give her a call if your goal is the type of integration that I mentioned above. It will be hard to find anyone else that offers all of that in one box.

James

Welcome to VAF!

Ananda, to the good ship VAF.

Neat product you have there, thanks for sharing it with us.

Good to have another vendor on board.

glad to join VAF!

I'm glad I finally joined! My dad built the RV9 in the garage of the house and every since then.. we love it!



If anybody has questions about how to get the most out of your iPad/Android in the cockpit.. i'm the expert

Ananda
"Fly straight and Levil"