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  #1  
Old 04-26-2022, 06:39 AM
N82VM N82VM is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Warrenton, VA
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Default Snorkel, Frankensnorkel, Horz Induction B&C

Reading lots of posts about snorkel modification, cutting, glassing etc. All done to fit the B&C starter.

My question
1) Is this all custom due to all the variations of engine, FI set up, etc? Could it be produced semi custom and made to fit most applications?
2) Seems like a lot of interest in B&C + Horz induction, why has no one made an aftermarket snorkel?
3) Anyone done a flow test of the snorkel before and after modifying?

Iím building an 8A, smooth cowl, M1B with AFP FI. Given thought to swapping the supplied lightweight skytech starter with B&C.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2022, 07:29 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N82VM View Post
3) Anyone done a flow test of the snorkel before and after modifying?
Funny you should ask. Working to have a flow test on a stock Vanís snorkel done now. Iím hopeful the lessons learned from the RV-14 cowl and engine update to the IO-390-EXP119 (using the FM-200) have application for the AFP FM150C and IO-360-M1B. We should have some data in a few weeks.

Side note - when you order your engine specify the FM-150C as the older version will not fit under the tight RV-8 smooth bottom cowl (control connections are rearranged). The FM-150C, installed with the upcoming AFP linkage kit, fits perfectly. Iím also please with the boost in performance as compared with the standard AVSTAR injection system.

Carl
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2022, 07:42 AM
N82VM N82VM is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post

Side note - when you order your engine specify the FM-150C

Carl
I ordered a Thunderbolt last day before the $$$ increase. Lycoming says they anticipate the FM-150C being installed on engines that are being built in mid to late 2023. However not in stone on the when.

Thereís behind the scene work between Vanís engineering and Lycoming being ironed out before they start installing the new 150C AFP injection
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2022, 07:50 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Originally Posted by N82VM View Post

Thereís behind the scene work between Vanís engineering and Lycoming being ironed out before they start installing the new 150C AFP injection
Correct and with luck the three stakeholders will soon agree on a path forward. In the meantime I suggest you work with Jeff Schans at Thunderbolt on options to get what you want.

Carl
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  #5  
Old 06-02-2022, 08:18 AM
N82VM N82VM is offline
 
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Default Flow test results

Carl,

Have you received the results of the flow test?
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2022, 09:13 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Default Frankensnorkel

Quote:
Originally Posted by N82VM View Post
Reading lots of posts about snorkel modification, cutting, glassing etc. All done to fit the B&C starter.

My question
1) Is this all custom due to all the variations of engine, FI set up, etc? Could it be produced semi custom and made to fit most applications?
2) Seems like a lot of interest in B&C + Horz induction, why has no one made an aftermarket snorkel?
3) Anyone done a flow test of the snorkel before and after modifying?

Iím building an 8A, smooth cowl, M1B with AFP FI. Given thought to swapping the supplied lightweight skytech starter with B&C.
In my case, the starter was not an issue but it's the standard Skytech. The problem was the Frankensnorkel was 1/2" too long to the Port side. I cut it in half right at the starter. Fit either end then bonded the split. Removed it and repaired the split properly. Just inflate a balloon inside. Layup the repair and pop the balloon. Apply neat epoxy inside and its slick as snot again. Actually it wasn't very slick from the factory. Lots of blemishes got sanded out.
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2022, 09:14 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N82VM View Post
Carl,

Have you received the results of the flow test?
Here is an update:
- Iíve been flying (RV-8 with IO-360-M1B) with the new FM-150C install for a couple of long cross countries (replaced the stock AVSTAR). I find it provides better performance across the operating envelope (take off power to cruise efficiency). I recommend all builders order their engine with the FM-150C. Reminder the RV-14 IO-390-EXP-119 engine comes with the AirFlow performance FM-200. For that matter my new RV-10 IO-540 with Cold Air Sump will also have the FM-200.
- AirFlow Performance has refined an install kit for Lycoming horizontal injected engines. Review by Vanís and Lycoming underway. I have a beta install and can report it works well.
- AirFlow Performance is doing a baseline flow test on a stock Vanís snorkel. Once done the snorkel will be sent to me, along with thoughts on modifications which I will do. Once done Iíll send it back to AirFlow Performance to redo the flow test. From that either leave as is or do more tweaks. Once the process is done and we have good before and after data, Iíll fly with it.

Side note - the proposed snorkel modifications do not make the snorkel bigger or increase the footprint. The objective is to smooth out the internal air flow. I expect Iíll just be cutting away at a bump or two, then glassing over. Weíll see.

Carl

Carl
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  #8  
Old 06-02-2022, 07:09 PM
N82VM N82VM is offline
 
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Larry, thanks for the tip!

Carl thanks for the update!
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2022, 10:43 AM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
- AirFlow Performance is doing a baseline flow test on a stock Van’s snorkel. Once done the snorkel will be sent to me, along with thoughts on modifications which I will do. Once done I’ll send it back to AirFlow Performance to redo the flow test. From that either leave as is or do more tweaks. Once the process is done and we have good before and after data, I’ll fly with it.
That is certainly interesting to hear since I was involved with the development of the snorkel for the EXP390 using the FM-200, which included Don doing testing on his flow bench and saying that the final configuration was quite good.

If there were changes that could have been made, that would have made it even better, I would expect that he would have mentioned them at that time.

EDIT - It looks like you were specifically talking about a snorkel on the FM-150... can't comment about that since we don't have a version that fits that specifically.
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Last edited by rvbuilder2002 : 06-03-2022 at 10:47 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-03-2022, 12:35 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
SNIP

EDIT - It looks like you were specifically talking about a snorkel on the FM-150... can't comment about that since we don't have a version that fits that specifically.
The snorkel Iím talking about is the stock snorkel for the four cylinder Lycoming engines, except the IO-390-EXP111.

The snorkel mods you did for the IO-390-EXP111 is the basis for taking this look.

Side note - this snorkel fits the FM-150 just like the standard AVSTAR. I used the same snorkel (with no changes) on my IO-360-M1B when I replaced the AVSTAR with the FM-150C.

Carl
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