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  #11  
Old 01-18-2022, 07:31 AM
Taltruda Taltruda is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avrojockey View Post
Currently reading a book about ferry pilot adventures. One technique used when ferrying, when loaded up with ice, was to fly so close the water the salt spray from waves would wash over and deice you.

Since you're not navigating the North Atlantic, I wouldn't fly.

Seriously though, I wouldn't unless you can pick a safe altitude at least couple degrees above freezing. Even then, always have an out incase something unforeseen happens...higher, lower or laterally. Your flight planning should have a healthy dose of airmass study and temperatures aloft along your route of flight.

Here's what I know about icing...
  1. Visible moisture must be present
  2. The temperature of the collecting surface must be at or below freezing, the OATs only relevance is that it effects the temperature of said surface
I would like to add #3.. icing seems to need a “ Lifting action” to form, like within cumulus clouds. If there’s no rising air, it doesn’t seem to form ice. Also icing seems to be the worst right at the tops of the cloud. E we used to have an “Ice Detector” on one jet I flew, and we used to call it the “Tops Detector”, as it would indicate as we got close to the tops of the clouds!
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2022, 07:59 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is online now
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltruda View Post
I would like to add #3.. icing seems to need a “ Lifting action” to form, like within cumulus clouds. If there’s no rising air, it doesn’t seem to form ice. Also icing seems to be the worst right at the tops of the cloud. E we used to have an “Ice Detector” on one jet I flew, and we used to call it the “Tops Detector”, as it would indicate as we got close to the tops of the clouds!
Not true. It can and does form there but can also form with little to no "lifting action"

As was previously posted, visible moisture and temperature are the main requirements...and it can and does form above 32 degrees.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2022, 08:29 AM
David Z David Z is offline
 
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Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
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Near the bottom of a stratus layer often contains light freezing drizzle. This freezing drizzle usually sublimates before reaching the ground, so isn't reported by nearby airports. It's particularly insidious when scud running low level, because there is no "out". The options are climb into the cloud where even more icing exists, and praying to reach the cloud tops before falling out of the sky. Or descend even lower hoping the freezing drizzle lessens before reaching the ground. It's killed many pilots in Canada’s north.

If the ceiling isn't a couple thousand feet, or can't stay comfortably in air that's 40°F or warmer, the ground is where one wants to be.
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  #14  
Old 01-22-2022, 02:22 AM
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avrojockey avrojockey is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortSnorter View Post
This book wouldn't happen to be Air Vagabond?
Rubber Suits & Lukewarm Soup

Recommend by a close friend who had the author as an instructor at UPS. He actually used the salt spray technique successfully in one of his near-death experiences
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Last edited by avrojockey : 01-22-2022 at 02:28 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2022, 05:39 AM
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RV8iator RV8iator is offline
 
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Default I’m amazed!!

It’s a wonder we don’t have more accidents. It’s clear there needs to be better weather education.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2022, 05:55 AM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Sam B and RV8iator nailed it.

US gov't made an RW icing intro film that has a lot of info useful to RV altitudes and weather. https://youtu.be/NfLE-EcnrVQ
Practical lesson to the previous gov't video here: https://youtu.be/mc3U_qAxOcc
In addition to David Z's low layers often having drizzle warning, my own experience is that the layers close to the cloud tops are where I have encountered the highest ice accretion rates.

Never fly in freezing rain, not even if you have 2 turbofans on the back end with hot leading edges.

You can be in air that is a few degrees above zero and get iced up very rapidly with super cooled rain drops. Or if you have cold soaked wings and fuel tanks from flight in very cold air, you can then ice up rapidly in warm moist air.

The easiest option is to just avoid it and enjoy a few hours or days in a motel or with friends.

Last edited by F1R : 01-22-2022 at 06:13 AM.
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2022, 08:26 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is online now
 
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Default true

"...The easiest option is to just avoid it and enjoy a few hours or days in a motel or with friends..."

That is the best statement so far.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2022, 09:29 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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...and let's note the fellow was asking for advice, the first step toward safe flying.
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2022, 10:08 AM
rwarre rwarre is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wray, Co
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Default back ok

I made it back to Colorado, no problems. What I thought from the get go was that the air was warmer as I went higher. Even though the temp at take off was 30 degrees, once the wings were clear and dry, it was smooth flying. Clear and warm made good conditions. As others have stated much needed weather education flying would be helpful. AOPA and FAA has great info and that needs to be on a pilot's learning agenda. Thanks to all that offered advice.
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2022, 11:12 AM
NLPete NLPete is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southeastern, MN
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If you don’t fly in visible moisture in temperatures below 5 degrees Celsius you will remain ice free. I fly my RV by this rule because I’ve observed ice while flying other airplanes that are certified for ice. No problems so far. I have been delayed 7 days waiting for acceptable conditions on one trip though. The RV can do a lot of things the kerosene burners cannot do, but ice is not one of them. To those that need to fly in those conditions, you need a different airplane. I’m happy rwarre made it home safely and your decision to wait and seek out advice was very wise! Sorry my timing was off, but using the visible moisture and 5 degrees rule will keep you and anyone else reading this out of the ice.
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