VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.

  #1  
Old 01-01-2022, 12:18 PM
SabreFlyr SabreFlyr is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Marion, IN
Posts: 338
Default Use of torque seal

I've made a quick scan of both AC43-13.1B and the Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics Handbook and didn't find an answer to this. Do you apply torque seal to EVERY tongued fastener & fitting including hydraulic fittings and things firewall forward? Just installed my firewall fuel fitting and put torque seal on the nut but was wondering about the flare nuts on the fuel lines. Also installed the brake fluid reservoir and was wondering if torque seal would hold up in the heat of that environment.
__________________
Ray Dosh
LJ45 driver
RV-14 #140212
Empennage completed
QB wings 95% done
QB fuse in progress
2021 DUES PAID
Marion, IN MZZ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-01-2022, 02:38 PM
D-Dubya D-Dubya is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Beaumont, Texas
Posts: 170
Default

Torque seal is typically used on anything that you want to be able to determine if it's loosened during subsequent inspections. Yes, it will hold up to the heat of the engine compartment.

When the day comes that you actually have a plane that's just about ready to fly and not just a project you're working on in the garage, torque seal will also help determine if each of those connections is "ready to go" or if it was only snugged up during initial construction.
__________________
David Welsh
Beaumont, TX
RV-7 N413WD
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-01-2022, 02:57 PM
Rick_A's Avatar
Rick_A Rick_A is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Dubya View Post
Torque seal is typically used on anything that you want to be able to determine if it's loosened during subsequent inspections.
Actually, torque seal does NOT tell you if something as loosened between inspections. It tells you that you torqued it at some point in the past. Just because the seal is still intact, does not mean that it is still tight!
__________________
Rick Aronow,
Flying 7A Slider;
RV-12 SOLD
Jacksonville, FL
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-01-2022, 03:41 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,389
Default Sorry......

I don't have much faith in torque seal. I have found, on initial inspection, nuts that were torque sealed and NOT tight! And, unfortunately, it's not that rare.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-01-2022, 03:51 PM
1001001's Avatar
1001001 1001001 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Just Minutes from KBVI!
Posts: 1,315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I don't have much faith in torque seal. I have found, on initial inspection, nuts that were torque sealed and NOT tight! And, unfortunately, it's not that rare.
Mel, do you think that's a function of nuts being properly torqued and working loose, while the torque seal fails to break, or of builders/mechanics making a procedural error and applying torque seal to fasteners they have not personally verified to have the torque set properly?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:38 PM
rvbuilder2002's Avatar
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1001001 View Post
Mel, do you think that's a function of nuts being properly torqued and working loose, while the torque seal fails to break, or of builders/mechanics making a procedural error and applying torque seal to fasteners they have not personally verified to have the torque set properly?
In my opinion, these situations would be cases of torque seal being applied when the fasteners had not been properly torqued.

Torque seal is a valuable tool when it is used correctly. It needs to be applied as each fastener, hose end, etc., is torqued.

We use it extensively in our RV-12iS production division. At final post production inspection, if torque seal is missing from any torqued connection or fastener, it gets squawked and has to be checked for proper torque with a torque wrench and then torque seal applied before the airplane is signed off. I did quite a few post production final inspections prior to switching to DAR duties (when acting as DAR I can't have any involvement with an aircraft prior to the point of doing the certification inspection), and I would occasionally find torque seal missing but I believe in all cases the connection was fully torqued but torque seal had not been applied.

In my opinion, this is the only purpose of torque seal.... as a visual indicator that something was at some point torqued properly.

It is a great cross check for any home builder, but should be an absolute requirement on any build where multiple people are participating.
It was standard practice for every connection with the TeenFlight build program that I lead, as well as the One Week Wonder build project done during OSH2018.

As Mel has pointed out, for it to have any value it requires proper discipline when being used.

What torque seal should not be relied upon for is as an indicator that a fastener or connection is still at a proper torque value once the airplane is in service. Once that is true, about all it shows you is whether the assembly has been taken apart at any time since the torque seal was applied and even then that is not total proof. I have seen connections with improperly applied torque seal, taken apart and then reassembled with it being very difficult to tell that the torque seal has been disturbed
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:42 PM
1001001's Avatar
1001001 1001001 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Just Minutes from KBVI!
Posts: 1,315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Torque seal is a valuable tool when it is used correctly. It needs to be applied as each fastener, hose end, etc., is torqued.
That's how I do it. I don't apply it unless immediately after setting the torque on a fastener, or checking the torque. As you say, it requires discipline and holding to procedure to have value.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:43 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,389
Default Not working loose!.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1001001 View Post
Mel, do you think that's a function of nuts being properly torqued and working loose, while the torque seal fails to break, or of builders/mechanics making a procedural error and applying torque seal to fasteners they have not personally verified to have the torque set properly?
Note my emphasis "on initial inspection"! These aircraft have not been flown.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:50 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 10,708
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SabreFlyr View Post
I've made a quick scan of both AC43-13.1B and the Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics Handbook and didn't find an answer to this.
And you'll find nothing authoritative here either. Not even a consensus. And installed bolt preload, for which torque is only a proxy, is often lost in service. It does not require rotation of the nut or bolt. The classic example is a clamped joint with paint layers in the stack-up.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390

Last edited by DanH : 01-01-2022 at 04:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-01-2022, 04:52 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,694
Default

Question, when checking torque value on a faster , do most just apply a torque wrench on the fastener and see if it moves or loosen the fastener and re-torque?
Itís my understanding that for proper torque, a fastener should be moving while reaching itís value. It takes more torque to get a fastener moving than one already moving.
__________________
Thanks Ron
RV-10 SOLD
RV-14 Flying
AirCam flying
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:43 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.