VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
Donate methods

Point your
camera app here
to donate fast.






VAF on Twitter:
@VansAirForceNet


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-12/RV-12iS
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-19-2022, 09:30 PM
rcarsey's Avatar
rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 389
Default

Assume the engine stopped because you were very low on fuel and the pickup tube became uncovered for a brief period..

Based on what you say here.. it sounds like the procedure is still correct, as long as its followed.. the "EMS Backup Battery switch - ON" would provide power once again to the fuel pumps. If the prop is still windmilling, the engine should start up immediately at this point. correct?

The only risk seemd to be when the pilot doesn't follow the procedure. He may not try the ignition key because the prop is still rotating... and he may not think to use that EMS Backup Battery Switch .. because.. well, in normal operations, it never gets touched. He might notice 0 psi fuel pressure and try flipping the fuel pump switches, but that won't help. Eventually he'll pitch for best glide, the prop would stop..and maybe then he'd give the ignition switch a try.. and he'd be back in business.

The old behavior, where the pumps continue to run after a stoppage, just seems safer.. except during a crash sequence, as you mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Kirk View Post
3.5.3.1 ENGINE AIR RESTART ROTAX 912 iS
• Maintain Airspeed – 60 KIAS minimum (see note below)
• Smart Glide – Hold Direct-To Button on G3X (Garmin Only)
• Lane A & B Switches – BOTH ON
• EMS Backup Battery Switch – ON
• Fuel Pump Switches – BOTH ON
• Fuel Shut-Off Valve – CHECK ON – DOWN
• Throttle – SET TO 55% - 65% OPEN
• Spar Pin Override Switch – HOLD DOWN
• Ignition Key – ENGAGE
• If restart not possible, change throttle settings in attempt to
restart
• Follow 3.6.2 “Forced Landing” procedures if unable to restart
... the EMS Backup Battery Switch (BBS) connects the Main (Aircraft) Bus directly to the 912iS EMS Bus A. The BBS serves the exact same purpose as the SBB circuit in the HIC Module does - to supply battery bus power directly to the EMS system - only more directly.
__________________
Rob Carsey, Winfield Park, NJ
RV-12iS (N713) / Completed 12/2020
ASEL, Glider, AGI/IGI, LSRM-I, FCC GROL
APRS Track or ADSBExchange Track
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-19-2022, 10:49 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarsey View Post
Assume the engine stopped because you were very low on fuel and the pickup tube became uncovered for a brief period..

Based on what you say here.. it sounds like the procedure is still correct, as long as its followed.. the "EMS Backup Battery switch - ON" would provide power once again to the fuel pumps. If the prop is still windmilling, the engine should start up immediately at this point. correct?
If a 912 Rotax stops running in flight, it STOPS.
It dos not windmill (well if you were diving at the ground when it stopped it might but not in normal flight attitudes).

That is why the procedure includes “engage key”.
__________________
Opinions, information, and comments, are my own unless stated otherwise.
You are personally responsible for determining the suitability of any tips,
ideas, etc. obtained from any post I have made in this forum.


Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Formerly of Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-19-2022, 11:11 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,333
Default

I can attest to what Scott says. Fortunately the corrective action he mentioned worked. The problem was maintenance related. One carburetor did not seat properly in the socket and was allowing air to be sucked into the intake manifold. I was doing stalls with a student, and when he pulled back the throttle the engine quit. I thought maybe the idle was set too low as a first thought when it restarted. I have learned it is much better to figure out issues on the ground than go with assumptions in the air.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-19-2022, 11:33 PM
gasman gasman is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 4,622
Default

They took the phone and complicated it.... now they are taking the single engine plane and doing the same thing to it. They did it to your new truck also. Don't believe me, just look under the hood of a 1972 F-150...

My 6A with one mag only needs oil and fuel to fly, and can do so on about the same amount of fuel that a 12 uses at the same speed.

What's my point, *ell, I don't know. You should know me by now..
__________________
VAF #897 Warren Moretti
2022 =VAF= Dues PAID
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-16-2022, 04:03 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 152
Default

Looking at the SB instructions it appears that there is no way to perform this SB without removing the canopy and the top cowl. The paint shop I used did not remove the these items for the paint job and it will break the paint to remove the top cowl.

Does anyone have any tips or recommendations for minimizing the amount of paint damage and broken paint areas when I go to remove the top cowl?
__________________
Jayson
RV-12iS
N121SF
E-LSA
iRMT & LSRM-I

Donated

“Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane.” -Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkins) Movie - "The Edge" https://youtu.be/dJD0lB4zRes
"...except during the month of Annual Condition Inspection." -Me (in the hangar)
"My first wife didn't like airplanes." - Gordon Baxter
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-16-2022, 06:21 PM
greghughespdx's Avatar
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Looking at the SB instructions it appears that there is no way to perform this SB without removing the canopy and the top cowl. The paint shop I used did not remove the these items for the paint job and it will break the paint to remove the top cowl.

Does anyone have any tips or recommendations for minimizing the amount of paint damage and broken paint areas when I go to remove the top cowl?
Did they paint the airplane with the top cowl installed? It has to come off for inspections, so maybe I am misunderstanding something here? Or are you referring to the top-forward metal skin that covers the avionics bay area?
__________________
Greg Hughes - Van's Aircraft
Van's web site | Instagram | Facebook
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Building RV-8A since Sept 2014
Dual AFS 5600, Avidyne IFD 440, Whirlwind 74RV, Superior XP IO-360
VAF build thread - Flickr photo album - Project Facebook page
Aurora, OR (EAA Chapter 105)

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-16-2022, 06:29 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Amadeus Amadeus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Basalt, CO/Lexington, KY
Posts: 152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by greghughespdx View Post
Or are you referring to the top-forward metal skin that covers the avionics bay area?
Yes. I assumed in this instance, since the images in Figure 1 and Figure 2 show this piece removed, that this was being referred to as such. But re-reading it I see this is called the forward upper fuselage skin. It is painted, screw heads and all, and will crack the paint to remove.

Is there a method for limiting the amount of damage when I perform this SB?
__________________
Jayson
RV-12iS
N121SF
E-LSA
iRMT & LSRM-I

Donated

“Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane.” -Charles Morse (Anthony Hopkins) Movie - "The Edge" https://youtu.be/dJD0lB4zRes
"...except during the month of Annual Condition Inspection." -Me (in the hangar)
"My first wife didn't like airplanes." - Gordon Baxter
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-16-2022, 06:32 PM
greghughespdx's Avatar
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Yes. I assumed in this instance, since the images in Figure 1 and Figure 2 show this piece removed, that this was being referred to as such. But re-reading it I see this is called the forward upper fuselage skin. It is painted, screw heads and all, and will crack the paint to remove.

Is there a method for limiting the amount of damage when I perform this SB?
Gotcha - just making sure. A paint cutter kit (sometimes called screwhead paint cutters) can help to make sure paint damage is minimized when removing screws that were painted that way. Similarly, a razor knife can help break the paint lines along skin seams. Just work very carefully.
__________________
Greg Hughes - Van's Aircraft
Van's web site | Instagram | Facebook
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Building RV-8A since Sept 2014
Dual AFS 5600, Avidyne IFD 440, Whirlwind 74RV, Superior XP IO-360
VAF build thread - Flickr photo album - Project Facebook page
Aurora, OR (EAA Chapter 105)

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-17-2022, 02:11 PM
bernsbm bernsbm is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mequon, WI
Posts: 79
Default

FWIW, I was able to complete this service bulletin fairly easily without taking off the avionics bay cover. Removing the right side G3X display allowed me all the access needed.
__________________
Barry Bernstein
N12BB RV12 Skyview flying since Oct 2016 (Sold)
N122B RV12iS Garmin flying since Oct 2020
https://eaabuilderslog.org?s=N122B
2022 dues paid. Best bargain in aviation!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-17-2022, 02:53 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,975
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernsbm View Post
FWIW, I was able to complete this service bulletin fairly easily without taking off the avionics bay cover. Removing the right side G3X display allowed me all the access needed.
If your airplane doesn't have a right side EFIS screen, removing the right side panel section should provide enough access to complete the work for the S.B depending on what tools you have access to.
__________________
Opinions, information, and comments, are my own unless stated otherwise.
You are personally responsible for determining the suitability of any tips,
ideas, etc. obtained from any post I have made in this forum.


Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
Formerly of Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop
FAA/DAR
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:49 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.