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Aircraft re-registration requirement

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RV10Rob

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For those nearing the time to register their airplane, it may make sense to wait until October 1, if possible:
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=11617

As an aside, I sent my registration in a few weeks ago, and the turnaround time was really quick. The registration appeared on the FAA website within a few days, and I had my certificate in less than 2 weeks, including transit time both ways.

-Rob
 
re-registration

In addition to the FAA decision to require re-registration (that is presently going to cost $5.00 each time), AVWeb is reporting that they are working toward increasing the initial registration cost to $130 and each re-registration to $45.

Now, I don't want to sound all political here but this is why so many people are looking at this administration's huge increase of government involvement in our lives with very cynical eyes. Present party included! :(
 
A short video about re-registration is on the AOPA
update site today. It seemed to cover most of my questions.
They mentioned that we will be notified when we need to re-register.
Tom
 
No user fees?

What the ...

I find it odd that I just received a post card asking if the plane's registration was update to date. If it was, no action was required but if it wasn't, they wanted to know.

I don't see a problem with that type of update.

Besides adding another tax, this gives the FAA another reason to fine you, if your registration has lapsed.

Whatever happened to the "Land of the Free"?
 
Read (unverified) that failing to re-register would cause the aircraft to be "unregistered" or similar. Wonder what that means for custom and certified aircraft.

Here is what I read "The FAA will cancel the N-numbers of aircraft that are not re-registered or renewed."
 
Same here....

What the ...

I find it odd that I just received a post card asking if the plane's registration was update to date. If it was, no action was required but if it wasn't, they wanted to know.

....

The FAA claims their data base is not correct.

If they would have just put a "all info correct" box on that 3 year postcard and asked for it to be mailed back, their data base would be much more accurate...:)
 
I love the FAA. Why? Well, compared to a lot of other agencies they are very cheap and give good service. Most of them are nice guys/girls as well.

Example:
Local annual aircraft registration fee: ~450US$

My last registration process locally took about four months. So I am not paying for speedier service either... :rolleyes:
 
The FAA claims their data base is not correct.

If they would have just put a "all info correct" box on that 3 year postcard and asked for it to be mailed back, their data base would be much more accurate...:)

Exactly my point.
 
???

This does appear to be another way to get a small user fee. As long as it can be done on-line it will be relatively painless.

Come on guys, this to me, is a positive thing. There are many cool tail numbers out there on crashed, abandon, lost etc.... With the new system many of these can be available. Much like motor vehicle titles and registrations there will be "history."

Also, the data base will be very accurate.
 
Give them the benefit

I agree with the previous post. The fee is quite minimal and the action required is modest. We'll all spend more time negotiating our cell phone contracts than we will dealing with the FAA.

Let's not forget that we have not only the freest, but the safest and most efficient/effective air transport system in the world. Utopia is not an option, so a little bit of bureaucracy is inevitable.

-Matt
402BD
 
This does appear to be another way to get a small user fee. As long as it can be done on-line it will be relatively painless.

Come on guys, this to me, is a positive thing. There are many cool tail numbers out there on crashed, abandon, lost etc.... With the new system many of these can be available. Much like motor vehicle titles and registrations there will be "history."

Also, the data base will be very accurate.
I am sorry but I cannot believe you think it is a good thing that the FAA is proposing adding more expenses to an already expensive endeavor! :( You think it is a good thing that they are going to, just in the short term, double our expenses for this government mandated bureaucracy every 3 years? Or, that, more importantly, they are looking to increase the initial registration cost to $130 (that is 26 times the current cost!) and then charge a re-registration fee every 3 years of $45. I THOUGHT WE JUST DEFEATED A BATTLE OVER USER FEES!!!!

Ok, forget about the expense, what about the idea that we are supposed to be a country of freedoms and liberties? I really am trying not to jump up on a soap box here but when are we as a society going to stop all of this movement toward more and more government control of our lives in the name of safety and security?

I, for one, feel very safe and secure in my present position and really don't feel that the government is having a great deal to do with making me feel so. In fact, any threats I am feeling toward my safety and security are because of what my government is doing!

Ok, Ok, I hear you! Stepping down off of my soap box. Sorry, it just rials me to no end when "We the people" continue to bow down to the ever increasing pressures of government dictates over our lives.
 
I agree Darwin. I don't have a problem with the cost, I actually thought $5 to register was funny. I mean really $5 for life time registration. :D
I was just bummed that I just received my registration a few weeks ago and now get to do it again next year, so the 3 yr reg process is only 1 yr for me. oh well, I just hope I get to fly it before then.
 
Amen -

I am sorry but I cannot believe you think it is a good thing that the FAA is proposing adding more expenses to an already expensive endeavor! :( You think it is a good thing that they are going to, just in the short term, double our expenses for this government mandated bureaucracy every 3 years? Or, that, more importantly, they are looking to increase the initial registration cost to $130 (that is 26 times the current cost!) and then charge a re-registration fee every 3 years of $45. I THOUGHT WE JUST DEFEATED A BATTLE OVER USER FEES!!!!

Ok, forget about the expense, what about the idea that we are supposed to be a country of freedoms and liberties? I really am trying not to jump up on a soap box here but when are we as a society going to stop all of this movement toward more and more government control of our lives in the name of safety and security?

I, for one, feel very safe and secure in my present position and really don't feel that the government is having a great deal to do with making me feel so. In fact, any threats I am feeling toward my safety and security are because of what my government is doing!

Ok, Ok, I hear you! Stepping down off of my soap box. Sorry, it just rials me to no end when "We the people" continue to bow down to the ever increasing pressures of government dictates over our lives.

Make no mistake - the re-registration requirement has nothing to do with security. It's a tax on a politically un-imporatnt group of people. And a another way to keep track of who owns and who is doing what.
 
inevitable...

Who didn't see this coming? I've been wondering for years when they would bump up the registration fee and I'm surprised they don't do it yearly. :eek:

We all pay yearly on our cars, boats, motorcycles, etc... I figure we've had it easy at 5 bucks for a long time. It will also cull out a lot of bad registrations.

Not that I think it's ok, but I think it was inevitable.
 
fed vs state

Who didn't see this coming? I've been wondering for years when they would bump up the registration fee and I'm surprised they don't do it yearly. :eek:

We all pay yearly on our cars, boats, motorcycles, etc... I figure we've had it easy at 5 bucks for a long time. It will also cull out a lot of bad registrations.

Not that I think it's ok, but I think it was inevitable.

Cars, boats, motorcycles, etc. are all state registered. Why do I have to have a federal registration on my plane plus a state (Illinois) registration, as well as a state pilots certificate??? Just another tax...
 
A nibble here and a nibble there. None of it seems so bad taken individually. The agencies, be they federal, state or local, say "that was easy" lets do it again. Then one day you wake up and wonder what happened. Who let this happen? The answer can be found in the mirror.
 
They are running out of N numbers....

And a couple I want are taken by invalid registries, so I'm for it at this point. If it hits $45 every 3 years... well boo, thats an hour of gas. The one thing they need to do it is make the process completely online based. The FAA could easily meet their budget goals if they fired 3/4 of the paper pushers they employ, and hired a half-decent IT staff that could build a database that isn't a pile of ****.

From the inside looking out, this isn't a bad move.
 
Cars, boats, motorcycles, etc. are all state registered. Why do I have to have a federal registration on my plane plus a state (Illinois) registration, as well as a state pilots certificate??? Just another tax...

This would cheese me off if I lived in Illinois...I thought the FAA was the authority for issuing airman's certificates, airworthiness and registration, etc.? What business is it of the state of Illinois'? What could they do to you if you failed to "register" with them? They can't keep you from flying, I'd imagine...

Has this been tested in court? Just seems contrary to federal law, to me...

The Illinois statute says, in part,

"These certificates of registration constitute the authorization of such aircraft and airmen for operations within this State to the extent permitted by the federal licenses, certificates or permits so registered."

I thought the "privileges and limitations" of exercising a pilot's license were solely the domain of the FAA as spelled out in the FARs? And airspace is owned by the FAA, no?

As to the other comments...it's not about the money ($15 a year is a pretty tiny amount, after all), but the *reason* for it. The Federal Register Final Rule describes this:

"Law enforcement agencies rely on the
registration database when investigating improper activities such as
drug smuggling. The registration database is used to identify aircraft
that could be used by U.S. armed forces. It also is a resource for
buyers and sellers of aircraft and for banks that may finance those
transactions.
The FAA and other government agencies are increasingly developing
sophisticated uses that are enabled by progressing technology. An
example is Automatic Detection and Processing Terminal or ADAPT, a
program developed by the FAA Strategic Operations Security with the
Transportation Security Administration (TSA). (See 70 FR 73323,
December 9, 2005.) This program continuously draws registration
information for combination with other data, satellite feeds, and radar
to develop a display of the national airspace complete with the
registration status of each aircraft that is operating on a filed
flight plan. Using this information, appropriate safety, security, and
law enforcement actions can be initiated. The development of the ADAPT
program and other safety- and security-related programs demand an
accurate database."​
THAT worries me...I don't trust the TSA as far as I can throw them, let alone other "law enforcement" agencies. Just another part of the giant "security theater" nonsense, and a result of the "keep the people scared" mentality that has permeated the government since 9/11.

And lest anyone want to blame the current administration, please not the date on the FR for ADAPT mentioned above. And that's just *an example* of the things they say this data is used for. Swell.
 
They are running out of N numbers....

And a couple I want are taken by invalid registries, so I'm for it at this point.

But you can't get them for 5 years:

Once
cancellation is complete, the N-number will be unavailable for
assignment for a period of 5 years in accord with Sec. 47.15(j).
The 5-year hold is related to both safety and customer service.
Many aircraft that may be canceled from the registration database
belong to owners who have been out of contact with the Registry. These
aircraft may be in use or may return to operational status during the
next few years. It would be unwise to release an N-number for use on a
second aircraft when there is a chance the first aircraft is still
operating. The 5-year hold also is responsive to requests from law
enforcement agencies. Removing the N-numbers of unregistered aircraft
from service for a few years helps them identify and evaluate operating
aircraft.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/2010-17572.htm
 
This would cheese me off if I lived in Illinois...I thought the FAA was the authority for issuing airman's certificates, airworthiness and registration, etc.? What business is it of the state of Illinois'? What could they do to you if you failed to "register" with them? They can't keep you from flying, I'd imagine...

Has this been tested in court? Just seems contrary to federal law, to me...

The Illinois statute says, in part,

"These certificates of registration constitute the authorization of such aircraft and airmen for operations within this State to the extent permitted by the federal licenses, certificates or permits so registered."

I thought the "privileges and limitations" of exercising a pilot's license were solely the domain of the FAA as spelled out in the FARs? And airspace is owned by the FAA, no?

As to the other comments...it's not about the money ($15 a year is a pretty tiny amount, after all), but the *reason* for it. The Federal Register Final Rule describes this:

"Law enforcement agencies rely on the
registration database when investigating improper activities such as
drug smuggling. The registration database is used to identify aircraft
that could be used by U.S. armed forces. It also is a resource for
buyers and sellers of aircraft and for banks that may finance those
transactions.
The FAA and other government agencies are increasingly developing
sophisticated uses that are enabled by progressing technology. An
example is Automatic Detection and Processing Terminal or ADAPT, a
program developed by the FAA Strategic Operations Security with the
Transportation Security Administration (TSA). (See 70 FR 73323,
December 9, 2005.) This program continuously draws registration
information for combination with other data, satellite feeds, and radar
to develop a display of the national airspace complete with the
registration status of each aircraft that is operating on a filed
flight plan. Using this information, appropriate safety, security, and
law enforcement actions can be initiated. The development of the ADAPT
program and other safety- and security-related programs demand an
accurate database."​
THAT worries me...I don't trust the TSA as far as I can throw them, let alone other "law enforcement" agencies. Just another part of the giant "security theater" nonsense, and a result of the "keep the people scared" mentality that has permeated the government since 9/11.

And lest anyone want to blame the current administration, please not the date on the FR for ADAPT mentioned above. And that's just *an example* of the things they say this data is used for. Swell.

Want to know a little more about ADAPT? (Details in many cases are held as "Sensitive but Unclassified (For Official Use Only)", so hard to come by). Here's some specs in a recent (3/10) RFI for capabilities:

1. Real-time monitoring of GA aircraft flight tracks for all aircraft by registration (tail) number in both Visual Flight Rules (VFR) and Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) environments;2. Historical display of previous flight activity for a period not to exceed 24 months by registration (tail) number, regardless of flight plan filing methodology (information should include date, time, call sign/registration number, origin/destination, aircraft type, and owner/operator/fractional information);3. Immediate flight track replay, to include flight track, owner/operator information - suitable for access via both the standard ADAPT and on Web ADAPT systems;4. Detection of callsign to registration number change over time (potential indicator of suspicious activity);5. Display of potential fuel on board at departure by aircraft type;6. Display projected aircraft path based on departure fuel on board as well as remaining;7. Positively identify aircraft by tail number from as many IFR and/or VFR flights as possible, regardless of the callsign;8. Provide detailed ownership / operator information to include aviation contacts for private, corporate, executive, charter, and fractional ownership operations.
 
Oregon also has aircraft and pilot registration. The pilot registration supposedly goes to local agencies for the purpose of funding SAR. Don't know why this is necessary when the CAP already provides that function.
 
Oregon also has aircraft and pilot registration. The pilot registration supposedly goes to local agencies for the purpose of funding SAR. Don't know why this is necessary when the CAP already provides that function.

At least aircraft registration has an analog (of sorts) with automobiles...the DOT mandates standards for safety, etc., but states have auto registration fees. I don't think the analogy holds, though, because states don't provide the equivalent of roadways for aircraft, nor do they have an aerial equivalent of Highway Patrols, etc.

But the requirement to register *as a pilot* seems egregious.
 
I agree with the previous post. The fee is quite minimal and the action required is modest. We'll all spend more time negotiating our cell phone contracts than we will dealing with the FAA.

Let's not forget that we have not only the freest, but the safest and most efficient/effective air transport system in the world. Utopia is not an option, so a little bit of bureaucracy is inevitable.

-Matt
402BD
Glad more like you weren't around in the 1770's.... Why not go ahead and surrender your certificate and chop up your plane?!?! The recent trends indicate small airplane flying will go away within 20-30 years. Why fight it? Right Matt?

Running out of numbers?? BS! Add another letter. Invert the sequence. That's what Texas did with autos - and they didn't charge more just because they had to change numbering format.

It really sickens me to hear so many people so quick to give up their rights and just roll over. Pathetic really.

If it's not broken (aircraft registration) THEN WHY CHANGE IT?! Taxes. It's all about the taxes (and control of mobile, politically active citizens).
 
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Glad more like you weren't around in the 1770's.... Why not go ahead and surrender your certificate and chop up your plane?!?! The recent trends indicate small airplane flying will go away within 20-30 years. Why fight it? Right Matt?

Running out of numbers?? BS! Add another letter. Invert the sequence. That's what Texas did with autos - and they didn't charge more just because they had to change numbering format.

It really sickens me to hear so many people so quick to give up their rights and just roll over. Pathetic really.

If it's not broken (aircraft registration) THEN WHY CHANGE IT?! Taxes. It's all about the taxes (and control of mobile, politically active citizens).

Well, which is it? Taxes? or control of people?

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount of taxes. I don't even think $15 a year is unreasonable, although others might disagree. I had a cigar last night that cost more than that. (I do mind if my tax money is wasted, and I consider a HUUUUUUGE amount of it to BE wasted...but if, say, FAA used the registration fees for FAA programs and activities to foster aviation and flight safety, etc., then that's fine with me). I'm not one of those who bitches and complains about every tax that's imposed under the guise of "freedom" or "patriotism". You want services from government? Taxes. You don't like some of what the government is spending your tax money ON? Ballot box. No, they're not going to spend every dime precisely the way *I* want them to. Boo hoo.

I DO mind, and greatly so, the BS "security" **** that does nothing to enhance security, yet eats away at my civil liberties. If that's what you mean, I agree with you.
 
OK guys, this isn't a political debating society - would you please remember the forum rules?
 
Quite simply, it is coming to this. They need to clean out the registry, and the government is doing it whether we like it or not. They see an opportunity to at the same time keep a closer tab on what people are doing, not a surprise with the TSA babysitting that they'd jump on that. I'm not doing anything illegal, so I don't mind so much.

I've seen enough of what the military, police and such can do with the tools they have already. I have no illusions about my ability to keep any information about what i'm doing or where I am from the government at any given time anyway. Working from within the system, I promise you that the whole ADS-B thing is going to boil down to the same thing, and they are timing this to coincide with that.

They will know who you are, and where you land. They can and will track it if they want to. But what it comes down it is who 'they' is. I overall still trust that my government isn't coming after me.
 
They are running out of N numbers....

That doesn't seem likely...I just registered a 4 letter number, and there were plenty others. It seemed like whole reams of 5 letter numbers were free...I don't know the %'s of course. It would clean things up after a bit I suppose...

EDIT: I read the hold part...nevermind. :eek:
 
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