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Stick Shaker

D

doctornigel

Active Member
Has anyone contemplated adding a stick shaker to their RV-10?

Seems you could tap into the far yellow LED on an AOA to drive a small vibrator attached to the stick, just a thought.

My life and the life of my passengers is as important as a plane load on a 737 and it has a stick shaker.
 
doctornigel said:
My life and the life of my passengers is as important as a plane load on a 737 and it has a stick shaker.
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I'm not saying you shouldn't add a stick shaker...it's your airplane, after all, but I suspect the B737 has a stick shaker because it lacks sufficient aerodynamic warning. Does the RV-10 also suffer from that?
 
From my research, the more high performance the plane, the less pre-stall warning you get. Probably correct that a 737 won't have a Piper like pre-stall buffet. The stall horn is easy to ignore and not as accurate for the typical real life stall, it's fine for the straight ahead, I'm practicing stalls scenario. The AOA can compensate for bank and weight, just measures critical angle of attack, my thought is how hard would it be to add a vibration to the stick to remind you? Just wondering if anyone has worked on making one. I'll probably still with the aural warning on the AOA.
 
doctornigel said:
From my research, the more high performance the plane, the less pre-stall warning you get. ............................................ I'll probably stick with the aural warning on the AOA.
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The RV series of aircraft, -10 in particular are not what you would call "high performance" aircraft. These are sport planes with a "large envelope" of flight parameters. The -10 can cruise around 200 MPH, stall around 65 MPH. That is a large envelope in which to fly safely. Most of the EFIS's have built in stall warnings that are very accurate. If you would like even more "warning" look into a LRI (Lift Remaining Indicator) as they are extremely accurate in all weather conditions.

In any event the stall buffet in a -10 is noticeable with a fair warning of the impending stall. It's a mushy stall with a very quick recovery with application of power or lowering of the nose. Nothing to worry about for sure.
 
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doctornigel said:
...The stall horn is easy to ignore and not as accurate for the typical real life stall, it's fine for the straight ahead, I'm practicing stalls scenario.
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doctornigel,

What are you basing this on? It is up to you as the manufacturer to ensure that the stall warning is accurate. Part 23 certified airplanes (even high performance singles) need to have an accurate and clearly audible stall warning. This is sufficient (and simple) in most cases. Multi color AOA, doodads and such are fine but nothing like a distinctive audible alert to get your attention when you have your eyes pointing outside the cockpit.

I encourage you to develop a stick shaker however. Personally, an audible stall warning should get the attention of most even in the nosiest cabins.

Note, the RV-10 has a cabin, all the other RVs have cockpits:cool:
 
I'm starting to really come around to believing Van's reply "Just build the plane."

Tim
 
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doctornigel said:
The stall horn is easy to ignore and not as accurate for the typical real life stall, it's fine for the straight ahead, I'm practicing stalls scenario. The AOA can compensate for bank and weight, just measures critical angle of attack, my thought is how hard would it be to add a vibration to the stick to remind you?
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Actually a stall warning vane measures AOA. It will work fine at all bank angles.
 
doctornigel said:
Has anyone contemplated adding a stick shaker to their RV-10?

Seems you could tap into the far yellow LED on an AOA to drive a small vibrator attached to the stick, just a thought.

My life and the life of my passengers is as important as a plane load on a 737 and it has a stick shaker.
Click to expand...


Just an idea, you could use the PS3 dual shock motor for a stick shaker, run it from the yellow led into an amp to solid state switch.
 
Stall in comfort with "VibraStall". Only sold on VAF!

Jamie Aust said:
Just an idea, you could use the PS3 dual shock motor for a stick shaker, run it from the yellow led into an amp to solid state switch.
Click to expand...

images


Use this head massager, run a relay to the stall warning and feel the tension melt away as your RV-10 loses all lift.
Our motto is: "Why shake the stick when we can shake your whole head!"
This is only 9 easy payments of $39.95. :D:D

Sorry, I was having fun with that, but in all seriousness compared to the RV-6,7,8, the RV-10 has one of the best stall characteristics of most planes I have flown. Very predictable, no need for a stick shaker.
 
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Working on one now

I'm working on a stick shaker for my -4. I have an onboard computer and will use it process the AOA (percent of max AOA) data from my Dynon D-10A to turn on a vibrating motor clamped to the stick. I haven't found a good motor yet. Most are too small. I'll keep you posted. It is all in the testing stage right now.
 
I'm starting to really come around to believing Van's reply "Just build the plane."

Tim

Uh-oh, Tim. I think you got "edited":eek:
 
Cell phone type vibrator...

.......got me to thinking how startled I am when my cell phone vibrates..in Church and elsewhere. Why not put a similar vibrator under your seat or in your pocket?....that'll get your attention...activated by the AOA or stall warning vane.

Regards,
 
cguarino said:
I'm working on a stick shaker for my -4. I have an onboard computer and will use it process the AOA (percent of max AOA) data from my Dynon D-10A to turn on a vibrating motor clamped to the stick. I haven't found a good motor yet. Most are too small. I'll keep you posted. It is all in the testing stage right now.
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I'm sure the buttkicker can be adapted. http://www.thebuttkicker.com/gaming/index.htm
It gives a strong vibration. Attach it to the sound output on the computer. hmmm
 
FREE .............

pierre smith said:
.......got me to thinking how startled I am when my cell phone vibrates..in Church and elsewhere. Why not put a similar vibrator under your seat or in your pocket?....that'll get your attention...activated by the AOA or stall warning vane.

Regards,
Click to expand...

Get one out of an old pager. They lay right along the inside of the case and connected with 2 wires at solder joints. Easy........ measures 1/4" X 78". It can drop right in the end of the stick.
 
There are plenty of vibrating devices available at all sorts of "helpful" stores. Geez I have even seen one in SLC UT:cool:

Yeah..... I know.....hat and coat and get out!!!!:eek:

DB:)
 
i wont pile on reasnons why you dont need it, i think they got that covered.:rolleyes:
to answer your question,
im not working on one but it would be very simple to make. the interface is the only real work. could you take the vibrating motor out of a playstation handle (or similar)and wire it to the AOA? it would probally fit inside the stick. they are simple dc motors (i guess) and certainly can stand the duty cycle.
without the tone warning, in a busy pattern and other **** going on, the one time you get behind the plane it could save your bacon.makes me wonder if the dynon has the tone warning now :confused:
it does so much i think it may cause info overload. the shaker would break through the noise so to speak...
 
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I'd go with the seat shaker, got to be easier to install as it's not attached to anything mobile, won't add mass to the stick which would increase stick effort, won't interfere with stick movement.

But mostly I'd just pay attention to airspeed. Not hard to do as my -4 feels dramatically different at 60 than 80 or especially 100. The stall is abrupt but the warning signs are undeniable. Hope thats enough? Time and luck will tell!:rolleyes:
 
doctornigel said:
Has anyone contemplated adding a stick shaker to their RV-10?

Seems you could tap into the far yellow LED on an AOA to drive a small vibrator attached to the stick, just a thought.

My life and the life of my passengers is as important as a plane load on a 737 and it has a stick shaker.
Click to expand...

Stick shaker now available from http://makerplane.org/?p=1939. Works with Dynon, GRT or G3X systems. Provides a progressive pre-stall warning based on AoA. See it at Oshkosh.
 
How are you planning on isolating the vibration translated to the stick from vibrating all the control surfaces? All the push rods, tubes, linkages etc.? Initial buffet is probably going to mask any shake as well (oh look natural stick shaker).

This is a solution looking for a problem.

Transport category aircraft have stick shakers (the one in the 737 is about the size of a beer can) because swept wing aircraft stall at the tips first and it can be very insidious. Also, by the time a stall has developed it could take a couple thousand feet to recover. RV's don't suffer these problems.
 
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With full flaps in the 10, there is not a lot of pre-stall warning.

For those of you who think there is...cover your airspeed, turn on your bluetooth music and have your passengers yapping to distract you, pull the mixture, hit the nearest function, figure your glide distance, look out the windows for a place to land. All with ear plugs in and ANR's. Try practicing stalls in your 10 this way. Our reactions and senses do not work the same in an emergency, so one should try to simulate as much as possible.

Would a stick shaker have saved Doug Nebert in May 2014? "The pilot stated that they were going to make it to the airport and he was looking for a place to land. The airplane made an alert sound, which she thought indicated the airplane was moving too slow. The pilot made a left turn and tried to pull up but the airplane spiraled down harder to the ground."

Would it have saved Dan Lloyd in Nov 2007? "The last recorded GPS groundspeed was 71 knots, the last reported heading was 118.7 degrees, and the last recorded GPS altitude was 1,366 feet."(Approx 150' AGL)

I doubt it. Often we don't have time to think about a fix. It must be second nature. When we are task saturated, it can become difficult to Aviate. This is where training and practice helps, not another gadget.

Remember Colgan 3407 and Asiana 214 both had stick shakers. Air France 447's stall alarm sounded over 70 times.
 
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