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What RV For Me? (New Member)

BTP880

Member
Hey all,

Been lurking for a while and finally joined to start posting. Recently graduated college with my mechanical engineering degree and have started work. Im working on my private pilots license still so building may seem like a jump to some so let me explain.....I have always had a passion for DIY and building.I have pretty extensive experience restoring cars and building a wide array of things by hand (current project is the renovation of my first home). New and unknown things are a challenge I enjoy diving into and learning. As such I want to build my first plane to have the experience and learn. I am well connected in my local aviation community via my work (in aviation) and have several people who have built many planes to access for help and guidance. I wanted to come here to ask a few questions as I begin to gather and plan to start this project in the coming year or so. Below are my thoughts and points to consider for picking the right RV:

1) My general mission for the plane will be fast cross country, I live in Ohio and have friends in DC, Michigan, New Mexico, and Florida and want to make the time gap between us as small as possible, so speed is a strong desire. Most flights will be solo but I want the ability to take a passenger in relative comfort and still fit a bag for each of us for the weekend.

2) I plan to get my IFR rating after completing my private and I want the plane to be a good IFR platform and am looking for suggestions for avionics.

3)I plan to take 5-6 years to finish the plane

4) Obviously I will probably be pretty low hour when the RV is finished ~200-500 im guessing based on my plans to fly rentals available to me. So the RV I build needs to be friendly to someone without 1000s of hours.

5) I plan to buy the kits in succession, that is I plan to buy one kit and as I build it I will save for the next. So the air frame will be paid for when complete but I need to figure out financing to afford engine, avionics and prop. I am an engineer so I have some means but im not in a position to rock up to lycoming with 37k in cash for an engine.

So I am looking for advice on what RV is right, and then what Avionics, engine, and prop to pair with that RV to best fit my mission as well as advice on how you paid for your project.
 
Fast IFR X/C is your stated goal. Throw in efficient and you?re talking an RV-9. IFR is somewhat demanding in an RV but less so in a 9, excepting the 10, the most stabile.
You did not mention aerobatics so no need to consider 6,7,8. Need to carry multiple passengers and luggage you?ll need the 10, a great traveling machine.
 
9, 10, 14

Mostly going to depend on your budget and if you're a big dude, in which case a 14 or 10 is in your future. Not wanting to shell out $37K for a new engine puts you squarely in the 7/9.

In either case, unless you plan to buy a used engine, budget $150-$175, your IFR avionics will cost between $25-35K depending on the brand.

How to pay? Save up! Build it in stages. Nothing better than owning a capable modern airplane and not owe anybody or having to share. Do your own maintenance (which you'll be specially qualified to do after building it) and basically you're paying for gas.

Also, engines and panels and paint can be on up to 6 month waiting lists at times so factor that in. Last thing you'll want is to be ready for that engine and find it's 6 months away.

Start the build in your basement, you'll be surprised how much you can get done .. an hour here and there in the evenings really add up ..
 
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You sound like you?ve got a realistic grasp on the chalkenges, so just a few comments.
1. Look carefully at the 9?s weight and balance. Vans has numbers on their web site, but many planes come in heavier. Look at yourself and your proposed passenger(s), with regard to weight and size. Big difference between horse jockeys and NBA centers. Try to find someone local who will let you sit in their plane, try it on for size, check the baggage volume available as well as weight limits.
2. The -14 definitely has more cockpit space, more baggage room, and the capacity to carry more weight. It can also do ?gentleman?s aerobatics?. Being a newer kit, it goes together considerably faster. Downside is only money-:).
3. Dream and plan, but do not purchase avionics until it?s time to install them, near the end. They change fast, and it?s nice to not have an obsolete panel on day one. OTOH, if you are inclined to buy used avionics, as you find them, it is a good way to save dollars.
4. 200 hours should be enough experience for any RV. Currently 200 hours is also enough (with perhaps 5-10 hours dual training in a similar RV) to get insurance, although that has and can change. Be ready for the first year?s premium to be expensive.
5. I?m married, and have been surprised at how often other couples have wanted to join us in the fun. I have a -10, it?s right for me. More $$.
6. Not to stereotype you as an engineer (I?m a physicist) but you can save a lot of money if you forego a fancy paint job and cushy interior!
 
Some good general advice here:)
Like ALL A/C they are a trade off, usually the biggest hurdle to get over is $$$$, make no mistake that little $ sign can ruin a dream!
All the Vans designs are relatively fast, you get nothing for nothing, fuel is the major variable between models after build costs.
I fly solo 90% of the time so another POB has a low consideration for me, I have my 8 for ME, not someone else, we each are different :)

No one can give a definitive answer here, only you know what to build/fly at the end of the day, advice is only small pieces of the puzzle, good luck:)
 
It's too soon to be thinking about avionics suggestions since that hardware changes so rapidly. As you get closer to flying, then it's time and by then you may have a better idea of the specific factors that influence that choice.

For example, I wanted an autopilot and ADS-B for my day VFR airplane. And I wanted a system that I felt I could install and operate. I downloaded the various manuals and pored through them before making a choice. One company's offerings were rejected for being awkward to configure, another for being hard to use, and another for not having ADS-B (at the time, they do now). I'm holding off buying some of the parts to the avionics that I chose until I get closer to flying, but I found good deals on other parts and bought them.

The reason I held off on some parts is that I expect they might change, perhaps significantly, and because some warranties might expire before I can fly the airplane. I bought the parts I have because I don't expect them to change and because the price was good enough so I wasn't worried about the warranty.

Dave
 
I was in a similar situation as a low time pilot and wanting a fast cross country cruiser. I'm very happy with my RV-9A. Now I'm contemplating an IFR upgrade after 750+ hours of VFR fun. The airplane is very easy to fly and is quite comfortable for two with full fuel and baggage. I don't think I can even get it out of CG in just about any reasonable loading scenario. My average cost per hour for fuel has been under $27/hour over 5 years of flying. The efficiency of that IO-320 is amazing - 6 gph going 150 knots!

If I were choosing to build right now, I would probably consider the -14. Go sit in them and see how they fit. The -14 is much easier to get in/out of and baggage is more accessible. Having a complete panel/electrical/avionics and firewall forward package will make the build much easier.
 
Good luck and welcome aboard.

I was on a very limited budget when I started my -9. Bought an zero since major O-290, kept the options to the very basic and didn't paint it until I had been flying for four years.

The cool think is that you can build it very simple and add options after you are flying and get more experienced. Do things like make sure your engine can accept a constant speed prop but put a fixed pitched prop on it to start with. Same with a carburetor, you can change to fuel injection later, if you want. Mags for electronic ignition, etc.

I added an auto pilot, changed the panel a few times, and am somewhat considering replacing my fixed pitch cruise prop. Heck, I even changed out my O-290 for an O-360.

Good luck figuring out which one you want to build. The good news is that you can't go wrong with any of them.
 
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Based on your mission, it sounds like an RV-9 is just right for you. If you want to put a premium on cruise speed, you will want to put an IO-360 in it. It is a little beyond Van's recommendation for engine for the -9, but many have done it with excellent results. It is going to be very fast, especially at higher altitudes, because of the higher aspect ratio wing.

One thing you will have to think about is tricycle vs tailwheel. You are just in training now. Take advantage of any opportunity to get an intro into tailwheel flying. You may love it, you may decide it is not for you.

With the advent of the newly designed alternative nosewheel installation, many of the old concerns for fragileness of the nose wheel are no longer valid - I would definitely recommend that if you decide to go tricycle gear.

Regarding engine prices - there is a wide range of options that can change the price. Nothing wrong with a mid-time engine if you know the history of it.
I probably got lucky, but I found a newly overhauled 200hp angle-valve IO-360 for $17,000. With 600 hrs on it now, it is clear that I got a good engine at a great price. If you get hooked into the local aviation community and particularly the local RV community, good options may pop up.
 
I was you

I was a new college grad and had about 230 hours when I started building. I had my heart set on the RV-8. Took 3.5 years to build, I dont regret it at all!

I dont think you can truly go wrong with any RV, pick the one that does what you need it to do 90% of the time, then rent/borrow the other 10%.

I wanted a plane that was fast, aerobatic and could carry enough stuff to take my wife on weekend trips. RV-8 made that decision easy. Plus it's a good looking plane.

I paid as I went. I dont have a top of the line RV, I have a rebuilt engine, wood prop and no auto pilot with round dial instruments and a moving map gps. It's a simple build, but it's a ton of fun and does everything I need it to. I'm super happy with it.
 
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Which model

You got all the good advise.
Only thing to add is sit in or fly the models. Choose after.
You didn't mention a significant other so maybe it's not an issue. If there is one, make sure they are involved.
Wait on all expensive decisions like avionics, engine, prop till the last minute.
 
Engineer ???

Don?t fall into the trap of redesigning Van?s airplanes. I personally know 3 engineers that started building long before me. Mine took 10 years and I?ve been flying for almost 3. None of those 3 engineers have finished their planes. Changes add time, weight and usually $$$$. Someday, if they ever finish, I?m sure they will have fine airplanes. Just like the rest of us.
 
I was in your position several years ago myself and choose the 9a. At that time going upside down was not in my vision, and doing just what you said of going cross country was/is.

My 9A is now flying and I cannot complain.

I have just shy of $100k into it, that is all new, VFR EFIS panel. No paint, minimal interior for weight reasons.

Couple words of advice it will probably take longer than you think, but everyone that reaches the finish line will tell you it is worth it.

If you get to Louisville Ky we can probably let you sit in a 6, 8, and 9 and fly in my 9 for sure, possibly the other 2. I would suggest getting involved with local EAA if you are not already.
 
I have an RV-9A and fly it IFR. It is an adequate IFR platform, but not a great one. With the big wing, low wing loading and high cruise speed, I slow down in clouds to have an acceptable ride.

But since the certified avionics are so much more expensive, I'm not complaining real loud...
 
All good advice above......I started on your journey 16 years ago (engineer and all :)), and it worked well for me by paying for everything as I went along. However, I am just now looking at getting my IFR ticket, and upgrading my panel. For me, I knew I could get in the air quicker if I went basic VFR, single axis AP and have a good GPS. Even with a good paying engineer job, you will have a lot of expenses building the RV and with flight training. I like doing the upgrade now, because not only are the avionics so much better than they were a few years ago, I have flown my RV for several years and I know how I want to tweak what I started with. Also, check all the models out.....Fly before you buy......
 
Choosing a bird

My wife and I have a 9A with now 800 hrs on it.
We have been all over the West and 9 times to the Midwest. We can leave Oregon at sunrise and be in Illinois for dinner.
The 9A is an excellent IFR platform (we have an Advanced Flight panel)
With your background and support network you should have little trouble with the buiLd.
See you at Oshkosh!
Jim Frisbie
 
I started on my journey much like you. I wanted a fast cross country plane, but I also wanted light aerobatics and side-by-side seating for my wife. So we chose a 7A.

I had very little money and no pilots license (I'm still working on it right now!). I paid for each sub-kit along the way, so I own it with no loans or debt. I got very lucky with the engine... I found a rebuilt one with only 219 hours on it when he had a prop strike and had the engine pulled and completely rebuilt. It came out as a zero-hours yellow-tagged engine, essentially brand new. It sat in his hangar for a long time afterward and was never re-installed in his plane. I paid $12,000 for it. But it came with no mags, no carburetor, no accessories. So I had to add the expense of my pMags and fuel injection system. Still, a very good buy. I didn't want a carb or mags anyway. They're out there if you're patient and look around a lot.

My panel is VFR with room for IFR additions when/if I want to do that. I have an Advanced Flight Systems EFIS (highly recommend taking a look at it!) and Dynon COM and Intercom and Transponder with ADSB, a Tru-Trak autopilot, and some other features. I wired it all myself to save a lot of money. And, I might add, I am not an electrical person. I learned along the way, one wire at a time. No regrets. It just took more time.

It will probably take longer than you think. Life gets in the way. But as others have said, it's worth it. Also, as others have said, don't be tempted to engineer changes in the stock plans. And put off buying ANY avionics or instruments for your panel until the very last minute. Things change so rapidly. Who knows what will be available 5 years from now? My initial ideas changed several times before I finally took the plunge. And I'm glad I waited!

We had our first flight on November 3rd, so I have a brand new (unpainted) flying airplane in my hangar, and now I'm scrambling to finish the wheel pants and gear leg fairings, and my Pilot's license. But it's all good!

If you'd like to see my work, check out my website, link below. I'm way behind on updates, but you can see how most of the build went for me. Good luck! Jump in and start pounding rivets!
 
Wow lots of feedback! I was not expecting so many to chime in. Thank you all! Too many to reply to everyone so in general ill talk about the feedback I saw the most of!

I hadn't even considered the RV9 to be honest as I had my eye set on that RV8 speed, I didn't say anything about that in my original post as I wanted to see what everyone said first. I have looked at the RV14 tho and I really like the plane (on paper) but its price tag is a bit steeper for sure, not sure if its something I can justify over say the RV7 or RV8 as the 10K price difference could go twords a motor or prop. RV10 would be awesome but also pretty steep price wise.

Personally Im leaning RV7 or RV8 on paper at least.

I myself am not a a super big guy, im pretty short (5'5") and weigh ~200lb so I am not worried about fitting in the planes. Currently there is no misses factor to consider. The biggest people I currently know that may one day want to ride along are 5'10"-6' but most are closer to my size. That is my biggest concern tho with the RV8, fitting someone in back. Does anyone have experience spending a longer period of time in the back of an RV8? Is it totally miserable or is it not too bad? Like I said ill be solo probably 80% of the time but want the ability to bring someone.

As far as IFR vs VFR I figure ill build the plane with VFR but want to consider that eventually I would like IFR capabilities if for nothing else then to keep some fog and low clouds here in south Ohio in winter from cancelling weekend get-a-way plans.
 
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I was in your position several years ago myself and choose the 9a. At that time going upside down was not in my vision, and doing just what you said of going cross country was/is.

My 9A is now flying and I cannot complain.

I have just shy of $100k into it, that is all new, VFR EFIS panel. No paint, minimal interior for weight reasons.

Couple words of advice it will probably take longer than you think, but everyone that reaches the finish line will tell you it is worth it.

If you get to Louisville Ky we can probably let you sit in a 6, 8, and 9 and fly in my 9 for sure, possibly the other 2. I would suggest getting involved with local EAA if you are not already.

Louisville is not too far from me! This is very generous of you and id love to take you up on the offer to go up with you once I get some more time in on training, currently im very very low hours (havent soloed yet lol).
 
Back seat in an rv 8 is pretty comfy, not bad at all. It's more comfortable than a side by side in my opinion. I dont like sitting should to shoulder. The nice the about the 8 is you both have your own space. The 8 also has lots of storage space between the front and back storage compartments. Weekend trips are no problem. It's a true pilots airplane for sure.
 
-8 Back Seat

Wow lots of feedback! I was not expecting so many to chime in. Thank you all! Too many to reply to everyone so in general ill talk about the feedback I saw the most of!

I hadn't even considered the RV9 to be honest as I had my eye set on that RV8 speed, I didn't say anything about that in my original post as I wanted to see what everyone said first. I have looked at the RV14 tho and I really like the plane (on paper) but its price tag is a bit steeper for sure, not sure if its something I can justify over say the RV7 or RV8 as the 10K price difference could go twords a motor or prop. RV10 would be awesome but also pretty steep price wise.

Personally Im leaning RV7 or RV8 on paper at least.

I myself am not a a super big guy, im pretty short (5'5") and weigh ~200lb so I am not worried about fitting in the planes. Currently there is no misses factor to consider. The biggest people I currently know that may one day want to ride along are 5'10"-6' but most are closer to my size. That is my biggest concern tho with the RV8, fitting someone in back. Does anyone have experience spending a longer period of time in the back of an RV8? Is it totally miserable or is it not too bad? Like I said ill be solo probably 80% of the time but want the ability to bring someone.

As far as IFR vs VFR I figure ill build the plane with VFR but want to consider that eventually I would like IFR capabilities if for nothing else then to keep some fog and low clouds here in south Ohio in winter from cancelling weekend get-a-way plans.

My passnegers tell me that the back seat of my -8 is pretty comfortable. My 81 year old pilot father is 6'2" and has spent probably a couple hundred or more hours in the back seat of of my -8 and my girlfriend also rides back there frequently, including on cross country trips.

The -8 is also no slouch when it comes to high altitude performance. In mine with a pasenger and full luggage load I've seen 178-180 knots true air speed at 15,500' and 8.2-8.3 GPH fuel flow. That's with a 200 HP angle valve IO-360.

Nothing beats the sportiness and visibility that a centerline seating plane has to offer, in my opinion!

Skylor
 
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My passnegers tell me that the back seat of my -8 is pretty comfortable. My 81 year old pilot father is 6'2" and has spent probably a couple hundred or more hours in the back seat of of my -8 and my girlfriend also rides back there frequently, including on cross country trips.

The -8 is also no slouch when it comes to high altitude performance. In mine with a pasenger and full luggage load I've seen 178-180 knots true air speed at 15,500' and 8.2-8.3 GPH fuel flow. That's with a 200 HP angle valve IO-360.

Nothing beats the sportiness and visibility that a centerline seating plane has to offer, in my opinion!

Skylor

Thats some impressive performance! What prop are you running? Its gotta be constant speed, that or your takeoff performance is naught lol

Im glad to hear the -8 is conformable for 2, validates my want for one some more :D
 
Back seat in an rv 8 is pretty comfy, not bad at all. It's more comfortable than a side by side in my opinion. I dont like sitting should to shoulder. The nice the about the 8 is you both have your own space. The 8 also has lots of storage space between the front and back storage compartments. Weekend trips are no problem. It's a true pilots airplane for sure.

This is what I was thinking as well, I have pretty broad shoulders and so does my instructor and we are shoulder to shoulder in the clapped out sundowner I train in.
 
More room in the backseat of an 8, and better vis than side by side. I have an 8, looked at 7/8. I prefer tandem for the he fun stuff.
 
Prop

Thats some impressive performance! What prop are you running? Its gotta be constant speed, that or your takeoff performance is naught lol

Im glad to hear the -8 is conformable for 2, validates my want for one some more :D

I run a 74" Hartzell Blended Airfoil CS Prop.

Skylor
 
What to buy?

That is a question you will ask over and over when you start building as well, what to buy?

My plane is a RV 7 building in Canada, its mission is VFR day/ night, two people and baggage, light aerobatics and fast cross country.

I began with a six and converted to the new 7 when it came out. I bought one module , then the next then the Q build fuse then the finishing kit over ten years.

I sourced good quality used items which saved me tens of thousands. When Dynon came out with the new panel i bought a used D 1000. Saved almost 800$

I bought the seat foam and had it upholstered here for 1400 all in.

I bought a used 0 - 320- B2C out of a R22 with 300 hours certified left on it. The initial purchase was 4500 for the engine and all attachments including alternator( Which i have for sale now) I had a mechanic update the oilpan and other items including a thourough check for 5000 . I had it checked and all good, Total price for an engine that should see me into 800 hours before overhaul..........9500 Cdn.

VAF Classifieds provided the comm and intercomm for half the price of new.
I found an auction where i purchased altimeters, airspeed for pennies on the dollar.

I am doing my own painting and from thirty feet away looks great! Cost about 1100 all in.

Purchased a renewed Horizontal indicator for 800.

My updated target for finishing the build is 76K Cdn. of which it will be all Cash, so i will own the beauty when done.

So with time , diligence, and careful scrutiny used parts can help on the cost of these considerably. As for watching the timing I would agree that electronics change so fast and cost seems to come down on some things pretty quick as new things displace them so you might want to wait it out till you need them and save up.

Time, Time, time is the real cost. This thing is going to take time from everything you do and as i have not flown yet there are many times when i question the time i spend on this, but many say the GRIN never fades from that first flight so i build on.

As for the model, as you have indicated IFR you want a stable model IMHO i say the 9 is the model for that .... or the 10 but get a fat wallet for the latter.

The RV 7 (6) I have flown is is fun and fast and roomy enough for my 5'9 frame but it would be interesting if not tough on a guy for IFR in my opinion.

I am not building one but i would look at that 14 before i pulled the trigger, I think it is made easier to build and it is nice to have an options sheet for the panel as opposed to searching endless forums and opinion and vendors for what to put in there.

Each to his own but you sound pretty diligent in determining your use and i would imagine you will make a great decision!
 
That is a question you will ask over and over when you start building as well, what to buy?

My plane is a RV 7 building in Canada, its mission is VFR day/ night, two people and baggage, light aerobatics and fast cross country.

I began with a six and converted to the new 7 when it came out. I bought one module , then the next then the Q build fuse then the finishing kit over ten years.

I sourced good quality used items which saved me tens of thousands. When Dynon came out with the new panel i bought a used D 1000. Saved almost 800$

I bought the seat foam and had it upholstered here for 1400 all in.

I bought a used 0 - 320- B2C out of a R22 with 300 hours certified left on it. The initial purchase was 4500 for the engine and all attachments including alternator( Which i have for sale now) I had a mechanic update the oilpan and other items including a thourough check for 5000 . I had it checked and all good, Total price for an engine that should see me into 800 hours before overhaul..........9500 Cdn.

VAF Classifieds provided the comm and intercomm for half the price of new.
I found an auction where i purchased altimeters, airspeed for pennies on the dollar.

I am doing my own painting and from thirty feet away looks great! Cost about 1100 all in.

Purchased a renewed Horizontal indicator for 800.

My updated target for finishing the build is 76K Cdn. of which it will be all Cash, so i will own the beauty when done.

So with time , diligence, and careful scrutiny used parts can help on the cost of these considerably. As for watching the timing I would agree that electronics change so fast and cost seems to come down on some things pretty quick as new things displace them so you might want to wait it out till you need them and save up.

Time, Time, time is the real cost. This thing is going to take time from everything you do and as i have not flown yet there are many times when i question the time i spend on this, but many say the GRIN never fades from that first flight so i build on.

As for the model, as you have indicated IFR you want a stable model IMHO i say the 9 is the model for that .... or the 10 but get a fat wallet for the latter.

The RV 7 (6) I have flown is is fun and fast and roomy enough for my 5'9 frame but it would be interesting if not tough on a guy for IFR in my opinion.

I am not building one but i would look at that 14 before i pulled the trigger, I think it is made easier to build and it is nice to have an options sheet for the panel as opposed to searching endless forums and opinion and vendors for what to put in there.

Each to his own but you sound pretty diligent in determining your use and i would imagine you will make a great decision!

Yeah the 14 is super nice I just have to figure out if the wallet can do it. I guess one thing I should ask is what makes a plane a good IFR platform? I have 0 experience with IFR flight so when I keep hearing "It makes a stable platform" Im not entirely sure what is ment by "stable"? Per my knowledge all the Vans aircraft have excellent and relativity easy to handle, handling characteristics so...?
 
I think what most mean by stable platform is heavy on the controls. RVs are very nimble and very light control force is required to displace the airplane (compared to other GA aircraft). RVs are positively stable in the longitudinal axis and I believe neutral in the lateral axis; so disturb longitudinal axis it will return to where it was, in the roll axis it will stay where it is at. Most recommend a good autopilot for IFR in an RV, as compared to other GA aircraft, if you think about rolling you will (you can get in an unusual attitude pretty easy). However, all that said it depends what you grow up on. If your used to low control forces you'll likely develop low gain habits and fly light on the controls.
 
I think what most mean by stable platform is heavy on the controls. RVs are very nimble and very light control force is required to displace the airplane (compared to other GA aircraft). RVs are positively stable in the longitudinal axis and I believe neutral in the lateral axis; so disturb longitudinal axis it will return to where it was, in the roll axis it will stay where it is at. Most recommend a good autopilot for IFR in an RV, as compared to other GA aircraft, if you think about rolling you will (you can get in an unusual attitude pretty easy). However, all that said it depends what you grow up on. If your used to low control forces you'll likely develop low gain habits and fly light on the controls.

Unfortunately the old sun downer I am training in is not light on the controls, however I am a long way off having to worry about IFR so I think I can adapt by the time I get there and equip the plane with a good autopilot.
 
After getting in the 14 there is nothing comparable, if I was solo and a part time passenger that would be my choice, even though I love my 6A.
 
If you do end up in an RV before you are done training, I can only assure you the rest of your training will become an adventure of understanding how much training aircraft fly like a school bus.

With that said the RV line of planes are very easy to manage, as the flight speeds can be as slow as a Cessna, but you will be out of the pattern before the Cessna has even started to climb.
 
Take the long view

An aircraft is an asset. It is neither an expense nor an investment. Rather, it is similar to owning a 2nd home like a cottage. An aircraft like a cottage is typically not paid for in cash up front which is why there are lenders who trade liens for cash to pay for your asset. Take a similarly long view of paying for the aircraft as you would a cottage.

Like a cottage, you may get back the $$ you put into it (sorry, not your equivalent labor $$) when you sell it in the future. Both require $$ and effort over the years to maintain it's value. It is a lifestyle choice. I like the idea of having my own plane and flying to off-the-beaten-path airports to stay in a different B&Bs.

I chose the RV-9A for travel purposes similar to your description. I might have preferred the -14A for it's added size, but the $30k premium for essentially the same mission was too much for me to bear.
 
Spent several hours flying back seat of an RV8. As a pilot, didn?t like it at all. Looking at the back of the pilots head was no fun at all. Convinced me easily that side by side was better for taking passengers along. Much easier to show them what is happening with the screens on the panel.
 
Spent several hours flying back seat of an RV8. As a pilot, didn?t like it at all. Looking at the back of the pilots head was no fun at all. Convinced me easily that side by side was better for taking passengers along. Much easier to show them what is happening with the screens on the panel.

I'm the opposite. I bought my 8 (proper version) for ME not for a passenger :)
Nothing like that fighter pilot feeling, centerline seating, better balanced and sexier looking, as for the pax? Sorry but you are in my works now:D
 
Haven't seen any posts about the ride quality in the back seat of an RV-8/A...

I took a CFI friend flying in mine on a relatively calm day, and after an hour, he'd had enough of the side to side jiggle in the back seat because the airplane fishtailed ever so slightly. This wasn't noticeable in the front seat, pretty much on the c.g., but can be hard on back seaters.
 
As others have said, I personally do not enjoy the back seat of 8's. I'm a relatively high time pilot, so I enjoy giving the experience of flying to other people rather than highlighting my own experience. Thus I'd rather sit off the center line and have a stoked passenger. But if you want to maximize your experience, then you can't beat being on the center line.
 
An aircraft is an asset. It is neither an expense nor an investment. Rather, it is similar to owning a 2nd home like a cottage. An aircraft like a cottage is typically not paid for in cash up front which is why there are lenders who trade liens for cash to pay for your asset. Take a similarly long view of paying for the aircraft as you would a cottage.

Like a cottage, you may get back the $$ you put into it (sorry, not your equivalent labor $$) when you sell it in the future. Both require $$ and effort over the years to maintain it's value. It is a lifestyle choice. I like the idea of having my own plane and flying to off-the-beaten-path airports to stay in a different B&Bs.

I chose the RV-9A for travel purposes similar to your description. I might have preferred the -14A for it's added size, but the $30k premium for essentially the same mission was too much for me to bear.

Yeah and I kinda realized this after looking into financing for regular certified aircraft but it seems that things get a bit weirder/tricky when trying to finance a build because to start the bank does not have an asset that they could reposes if you default on the loan. Advice on that kind of thing? You seem to have some knowledge on it.
 
Haven't seen any posts about the ride quality in the back seat of an RV-8/A...

I took a CFI friend flying in mine on a relatively calm day, and after an hour, he'd had enough of the side to side jiggle in the back seat because the airplane fishtailed ever so slightly. This wasn't noticeable in the front seat, pretty much on the c.g., but can be hard on back seaters.

Hmmm good point on the CG
 
Another baaad thing about back seat passengers, you can't see if they're turning green or not, till it's on the back of your head.:D
 
I really think im starting to convince myself on the RV14:

Bigger and more comfort for longer trips
More range
More payload
Still fast
Can go upside down if I wish
Decent IFR platform
More modern kit

I just need to consult my budget planning spreadsheet to see if/how much longer it would take to gather up the extra money.
 
Hey all, Recently graduated college with my mechanical engineering degree and have started work.
I also am a recent Mechanical Engineering Grad School graduate (35 years ago ha ha). I would focus on working, getting your rating, renting planes for a time before the full commitment of building. Having a garage or shop at home to work in is key. I would not get in debt over a kit plane project starting out in your career (save save save). Depending on your industry Engineers in aerospace get laid off from time to time. (I know I'm a kill joy...)

1) My general mission for the plane will be fast cross country, I live in Ohio and have friends in DC, Michigan, New Mexico, and Florida and want to make the time gap between us as small as possible, so speed is a strong desire. Most flights will be solo but I want the ability to take a passenger in relative comfort and still fit a bag for each of us for the weekend.
So you need a business jet. :D Seriously if you are going to travel long distance on a schedule (kill joy here) take a commercial airliner. Some of the shorter trips you can do in handful of hours are easy, fun, practical, beat airlines or fill a need they can't meet from point to point. Say Cleveland OH to Roswell NM is 1500 sm each way. Even at 190 mph block speed that is 16 hours of flying....Add fuel cost and weather it may be fun, but as a new Engineer long ago I don't recall having a lot of time off work. It is a lot of flying. I fly for a living and did +12 hour flights. I don't care to sit in my RV more than 6-8 hours in a day tops (although I have done 10 hrs). An Airline can be cheaper and faster. Nothing wrong with taking a long cross country in a private plane over a few days or even week(s)... I have done it. Great memories and plan on some trips this year. However just be realistic about how practical it is. You have to accept weather delays and possible mechanical issues. As a new pilot not instrument rated, even if instrument rated, hard IMC/IFR in a single engine airplane, single pilot depending on time of year is not doable. I realized that after I got my instrument rating and icing in the north-west... Ended up getting a multi engine rating and flying a known ice Seneca II as an both Flight instructor and Part 135 pilot. Even than it was scary at times. RV's are all fast compared to Cessna Sky Hawk or Piper Cherokee. I have flown my RV-4 coast to coast in winter. It was an adventure and took many days. If I have to be there I go commercial.

2) I plan to get my IFR rating after completing my private and I want the plane to be a good IFR platform and am looking for suggestions for avionics.
IFR rating is perishable skill. If you get the rating and lock yourself into the shop for 5 years to built a plane you will have zero proficiency flying instruments... With that said IFR rating... get it. Try and practice on Flight training devices (simulator), far cheaper then boring holes in the sky and can keep you proficient, even if not 100% log-able for currency and proficiency. There are new generations of training devices that are excellent and recognized by the FAA. An hour in a sim with a good instructor can be better than 2 or 3 hours logged in an airplane.

3)I plan to take 5-6 years to finish the plane
Me too and it took 10 years. However with the quick build, money and time that is very doable. No dating, no travel, no TV.... :D (I am kind of kidding but my point is being efficient with time.)

4) Obviously I will probably be pretty low hour when the RV is finished ~200-500 im guessing based on my plans to fly rentals available to me. So the RV I build needs to be friendly to someone without 1000s of hours.
It is all about training. If you are a competent pilot in a Cessna or Piper, current, proficient, a transition to an RV with 100 or 200 hours would be easy. The Air Force and Navy put low time pilots in Jets. Again it is all about GOOD TRAINING. With that said pilots differ in ability, skill and how they learn. I was very much like you and had all my ratings including CFI in 250-300 hours and a bunch of tail dragger time. I flew my RV4 easily with about 500 hours. A little complex controllable prop and retract gear time to learn how to plan ahead for faster speeds was a plus. Obviously being conventional gear current (Citabria and J3) did not hurt. When I built my RV nose gears were not available.

5) I plan to buy the kits in succession, that is I plan to buy one kit and as I build it I will save for the next. So the air frame will be paid for when complete but I need to figure out financing to afford engine, avionics and prop. I am an engineer so I have some means but im not in a position to rock up to lycoming with 37k in cash for an engine.
Yep DON'T buy all at once. You will need to buy a few grand in tools first. Build a kit and then order the next. This helps if you ever have to move... not having to haul parts around, really sucks (i know).

So I am looking for advice on what RV is right, and then what Avionics, engine, and prop to pair with that RV to best fit my mission as well as advice on how you paid for your project.
It is like asking what is your favorite color or ice cream or music. If all you want to do is travel and cruise solo or +1 the RV9 is nice. If you want to do Aerobatics, RV8 or RV7 is better. You can not go wrong with any RV... By sales RV7 and RV8 are most popular. The RV9 is excellent and the RV12 is a Rotax LSA. Since you will have a medical I would not recommend the LSA but RV12 is a good plane. The RV10 four place (no aerobatics but needs big expensive engine) and RV14, a wide body RV7 for bigger taller folks, is made for the more expensive IO360 200HP Lyc engine.

Aircraft ownership, hanger, fuel, maintenance, insurance is a lot of cash. Not trying to discourage you but that money might be better spend renting and building? May be a partnership in a nice older plane... learn to do owner preventative maintenance. However go for it.... just set realistic goals work on them. It will be one of the most rewarding things you do in your life.... However balance in life is key. Many a builder has got divorced by obsessing over a project.
 
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I also am a recent Mechanical Engineering Grad School graduate (35 years ago ha ha). I would focus on working, getting your rating, renting planes for a time before the full commitment of building. Having a garage or shop at home to work in is key. I would not get in debt of a kit plane project starting out in your career (save save save).

So you need a business jet. :D Seriously if you are going to travel long distance on a schedule (kill joy here) take a commercial airliner. Some of the shorter trips you can do in handful of hours are easy, but say Cleveland OH to Roswell NM is 1500 sm each way. Even at 190 mph block speed that is 16 hours of flying....Add fuel cost and weather it may be fun but as a new Engineer I don't recall having a lot of time off work. It is a lot of flying. I fly for a living and did +12 hour flights. I don't care to sit in my RV more than 8 hours in a day (although I have done 10 hrs). An Airline can be cheaper and faster. Nothing wrong with taking a long cross country in a private plane over a few days or even week(s)... I have done it. Great memories and plan on some trips this year. However just be realistic about how practical it is. You have to accept weather delays and mechanical issues. As a new pilot not instrument rated, even if instrument rated, hard IMC/IFR in a single engine airplane, single pilot depending on time of year. I relized that after I got my instrument rating and icing in the north west... Ended up flying a known ice Seneca II as an Flight instructor and Part 135 pilot. Even than it was scary. RV's are all fast compared to Cessna Sky Hawk or Piper Cherokee. I have flown my RV-4 coast to coast in winter. It was an adventure and took several days. However if I have to be there I'd go commercial.

IFR rating is perishable skill. If you get the rating and lock yourself into the shop for 5 years to built a plane you will have zero proficiency flying instruments... With that said IFR raiting... get it. Try and practice on Flight training devices (simulator), far cheaper and can keep you proficient even if not 100% log-able for currency. There are new Gens of training devices that are excellent and recolonized by the FAA. An hour in a sim with a good instructor is better than 2 or more logged hours in an airplane. No dating, no travel, no TV.... :D (I am kind of kidding but my point is being efficient with time)

Me too and it took 10 years. However with the quick build, money and time that is very doable.

It is all about training. If you are a competent pilot in a Cessna or Piper, current, proficient, a transition to an RV with 100 or 200 hours would be easy. The Air Force and Navy put low time pilots in Jets. Again it is all about GOOD TRAINING. With that said pilots differ in ability, skill and how they learn. I was very much like you and had all my ratings including CFI in 250-300 hours and a bunch of tail dragger time. I flew my RV4 easily with about 500 hours. A little complex controllable prop and retract gear to learn how to plan ahead for faster speeds was a plus. Obviously being conventional gear current (Citabria) did not hurt. When I built my RV nose gears were not available.

Yep DON'T buy all at once. You will need to buy a few grand in tools first. Build a kit and then order the next. This helps if you ever have to move... not having to haul parts around, really sucks (i know).

It is like asking what is your favorite color or ice cream or music. If all you want to do is travel and cruise solo or +1 the RV9 is nice. If you want to do Aerobatics, RV8 or RV7 is better. You can not go wrong with any RV... By sales RV7 and RV8 are most popular. The RV9 is excellent and the RV12 is a Rotax LSA. Since you will have a medical I would not recommend the LSA. The RV10 four place and RV14 is a wide body RV7 for bigger taller folks and made for the more expensive IO360 200HP Lyc.

Aircraft ownership, hanger, fuel, maintenance, insurance is a lot of cash. Not trying to discourage you but that money might be better spend renting and building? May be a partnership in a nice older plane... learn to do owner preventative maintenance. However go for it.... just set realistic goals work on them. It will be one of the most rewarding things you do in your life.... However balance in life is key. Many a builder has got divorced by obsessing over a project.

Oh yeah I know that for long trips to places like NM are cheaper and easier on commercial, it would be all about the adventure and to meet up with friends out there who also fly. Really that trip is more of an extreme case and will really only be a once a year thing. Most of my trips would be Ohio-Michigan and Ohio-Florida.

As far as a workshop goes I just bought a house and have a 2-car garage sized workshop on my property in addition to the attached garage. That workshop will be where my projects (and maybe this project if I pull the trigger) reside! Time wise I am single with a dog and nothing to do after work or on most weekends and I love building things in my free time, this is why building had drawn me in as opposed to just buying an already flying RV. My job is also in R&D and for the most part once it hits 5pm whatever im working on becomes a tomorrow problem :D .....Basically im not building to try and save money or get to a plane fast I want to build to learn how and experience it. It will also give me the skills to some day build harder to construct planes.

As far as IFR goes I dont plan to get it for a while yet but know I want to so planning for that now in a big investment like my own plane is a smart idea in my opinion. I am fortunate enough to have access to rent planes for very very cheap to fly and will be flying those while I build. Hence little rush to try and finish my build, rather I can take time building and still access planes to fly and keep skills current.

Basically the big thing here is cost.....I can build at home and dont have to rent a space but still need to make the const of the kit work responsibly and then operating costs in 5-10 years when its done.
 
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I fly a Mooney today and was trying to decide between 8,10, and 14. There's a guy on my field that has an 8. I went and sat in it... it was tighter than the Mooney, which people say is notoriously small. I'm not a huge guy, 5'10" 190lbs. Also in the back, I couldn't see anything except the back of the pilot seat.

I decided to go 14 because I want my passenger to sit beside me so they can manipulate the controls and be an effective copilot , plus flying upside down sounds like fun.

Currently building in my garage.

I wouldn't worry that the 14 costs $10k more. $10k is nothing in airplane money in the long run. My Mooney eats $10k for breakfast.
 
I keep seeing post saying all you can see in the backseat of an 8 is the person's head in the front seat. A cockpit mapping will show that is far from reality, also unless you are in the flare you don't fly nose up and can even see forward from the back. I never sit in the back, so it doesn't matter to me. I bought my 8 on the notion that 99% of the time it will be me only flying. Also, never heard of the wagging tail in a 8 either. Best advice would be to go fly in the models you consider and decide from there.
 
Beats Me

Yeah and I kinda realized this after looking into financing for regular certified aircraft but it seems that things get a bit weirder/tricky when trying to finance a build because to start the bank does not have an asset that they could reposes if you default on the loan. Advice on that kind of thing? You seem to have some knowledge on it.

I have no specific knowledge about financing -- haven't gotten there yet. My plan is to eventually finance the engine and/or avionics.
 
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