What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

IFR Logging Question

RFazio

Well Known Member
A question about logging time when practicing and in actual IFR, of course in my RV6. I ask here, because we have so many knowledgeable guys on this forum. From what I understand, when practicing IFR approaches with a safety pilot, both pilots can log the time. The second pilot is considered a necessary pilot in this case.

Do they both log the approaches?

Can both pilots log time and approaches with the pilot an IFR student and the safety an IFR pilot, not an instructor?

Can two IFR pilots on a filed flight plan in VFR conditions, both log time?

What if two IFR pilots have filed an IFR flight plan in actual IMC conditions? I think not.

Then there is the safety pilot with basic med question? He has to be PIC and thus current for the plane? Where every other case he doesn't even have to be current is that correct?
 
NOTE: A pilot cannot log an IAP for currency in an aircraft without also logging actual or
simulated instrument time. Simulated instrument conditions occur when a pilot uses a
view-limiting device in an aircraft to prevent the pilot from seeing outside visual
references. Consequently, a flight conducted under simulated instrument conditions
requires a safety pilot. A safety pilot must possess a current medical certificate, occupy the
other control seat, and be appropriately rated in the category and class aircraft flown
[§ 61.3(c), § 61.51, § 61.57(c) and § 91.109]. The pilot operating under simulated
instrument conditions must also log the name of the safety pilot.

Rich - I'm guessing your are referring to logging IFR currency requirements. Since the safety pilot is not under the hood he can not count the approaches towards his currency requirements. If your in actual then safety pilot is not a required crew and therefor can't log that time either.

V/R,
Joe
 
Last edited:
Makes Sense

I thought the safety pilot did not have to be current to be a safety pilot. Only if he was basic med?
 
I thought the safety pilot did not have to be current to be a safety pilot. Only if he was basic med?

Safety pilot must be rated for the aircraft type (no currency requirements that I know of, but suspect that a current BFR would be required though unsure if the regs state that - I would not want to getting into an argument with an FAA rep about this one). Safety pilot must have a current medical. The FAA left a hole here and I beieve they have still not closed it. Best interpretation says that Basic Med doesn't meet the requirements to be a safety pilot.

Larry
 
A question about logging time when practicing and in actual IFR, of course in my RV6. I ask here, because we have so many knowledgeable guys on this forum. From what I understand, when practicing IFR approaches with a safety pilot, both pilots can log the time. The second pilot is considered a necessary pilot in this case.

Do they both log the approaches?

Can both pilots log time and approaches with the pilot an IFR student and the safety an IFR pilot, not an instructor?

Can two IFR pilots on a filed flight plan in VFR conditions, both log time?

What if two IFR pilots have filed an IFR flight plan in actual IMC conditions? I think not.

Then there is the safety pilot with basic med question? He has to be PIC and thus current for the plane? Where every other case he doesn't even have to be current is that correct?

Always assuming you are in an RV-6

Do they both log the approaches?
Answer: No, only the pilot on the controls with a view limiting device can log the approach.

Can both pilots log time and approaches with the pilot an IFR student and the safety an IFR pilot, not an instructor?
Answer: In an RV-6, no. The IFR rated pilot would have to be the PIC and flying IFR under his certification, therefore the non-IFR rated pilot is a passenger. If the non-IFR rated pilot is flying the aircraft in IFR and not under instruction then he is operating in violation of the FAR's

Can two IFR pilots on a filed flight plan in VFR conditions, both log time?
Answer: I assume you mean logging IFR time. The answer in an RV-6 is no. Furthermore, only the time spent in actual IFR conditions can be logged as IFR unless a view limiting device is used.

What if two IFR pilots have filed an IFR flight plan in actual IMC conditions? I think not.
Answer: A gray area exists here. One pilot could be the designated PIC while the other could be the sole manipulator of the flight controls. This could then potentially be logged by both, but be careful of operating in the gray area. The non-gray area is that in an RV6 only the PIC can log the actual flight time unless one pilot is also an instructor and providing instruction. Up to you

Then there is the safety pilot with basic med question? He has to be PIC and thus current for the plane? Where every other case he doesn't even have to be current is that correct?
Answer: I am not smart enough yet on basic med to provide a response here.

Hope this helps answer the questions as directly as possible, but I always have the caveat that there are corner cases to each rule and I may not have considered some in this response. I also only stayed at a holiday inn express last night.
 
I thought the safety pilot did not have to be current to be a safety pilot. Only if he was basic med?

Correct. A safety pilot must hold at least a private pilot certificate, be rated for the category/class of aircraft being flown, and have a current medical, but they do not have to be current on landings or a BFR. They also do not have to be instrument rated. You can check 91.109 for the actual verbiage. They may log the time spent as a safety pilot (that which the other pilot is under the hood) as PIC, but they can't log it as instrument time. If both pilots are instrument rated and operating in actual IMC, whomever is PIC at the time may log the IMC time. Also keep in mind that you must be IMC inside the FAF to log an approach for currency when not under the hood.
 
Then there is the safety pilot with basic med question? He has to be PIC and thus current for the plane? Where every other case he doesn't even have to be current is that correct?
Correct. The safety pilot serving as PIC must be fully qualified for the operation being conducted.

George
 
: A gray area exists here. One pilot could be the designated PIC while the other could be the sole manipulator of the flight controls. This could then potentially be logged by both, but be careful of operating in the gray area. The non-gray area is that in an RV6 only the PIC can log the actual flight time unless one pilot is also an instructor and providing instruction. Up to you
.

The source of all this confusion is that the logging rules are only vaguely related to who is actually the PIC. The logging rules are for the type of experience the faa wants to see for additional ratings, or currency. If a part 91 pilot is THE PIC, but is not a cfi or required crewman or sole manipulator of the controls, he doesn’t get to log it at all! And if the owner, who is often presumed to be THE PIC, lets a private pilot friend manipulate the controls, the friend gets to log PIC time even though he is not PIC. The owner logs nothing.
 
Just to pile on, a pilot that has basicmed can be a safety pilot but they have to be PIC. The foundation is 61.113. After that it’s agreement before the flight that the safety pilot holding only basicmed is acting as PIC. Oddly enough, through a typical FAA quirk in the regs, both pilots can actually log PIC, the pilot under the hood by virtue of being the sole manipulator of the controls and the safety being the acting PIC. Clear as mud?
 
Back
Top