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Who's building or built their RV-4 in the smallest space.

Everbleed

I'm New Here
Hi Everyone,
My 15 year old daughter and I just bought a partially completed RV4 kit. I have to decide where I can put it for finishing the build. We have space in a four plane hanger available at a local airport but it is 45 minutes driving distance each way and everyone and everything I have read (including Van himself) says that long commutes can increase the build time dramatically and even kill the project. So I am considering building a stick-frame out-building on the property to finish the build.
I am curious what is the smallest size workshop used to successfully build an RV4. I have limited room and funds (same old story I suppose) and would appreciate very much any thoughts you old timers may have. Thank you.
 
I'm not an "old timer" :D but the basic small size shop is also about the same size as a one car garage. You REALLY don't want to go smaller than that, and you'd be a lot happier with a 1-1/2 car or even 2 car garage/ shop. they don't really cost that much more ( i've built a couple) unless you have some funny roof lines. don't forget to put in lots of outlets and think about your compressed air system (where to put the compressor, sound suppression, etc)

you could do a lot of reading under "shop size, shop setup, etc" in the search function - 3rd from the right on the top bar

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=15910&highlight=shop+size
 
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Thanks Danny. I read all the posts you recommended. Very helpful. I am still curious if anyone has done the deed in a single car garage.
 
im building a -4 in a 10' x 20' canopy achored the the ground in the back yard, cost me 200 bucks and its the second one i had to get due to santa ana winds but it did last me 2 and half years though. its tight in there but i have room for a 4x8 work bench a cabinet for small parts and metal shelves that are holding my flaps ailerons and seat backs. so i guess that is pretty small. oh and i have to plug an extension cord to the house every time i work not to mention blowing out the breaker every time the wife turns the microwave on, but its all good


-4, tail,wings and fuselage done looking for engine.
 
I built all of mine in half of a 2 car garage. Get as much as you can done at home. Once the tail is done you can usually put the pieces up in the rafters or on the wall somewhere. Once the wings are done you can haul them out to the hangar. And when the fuse is done you have the tail on hand to fit and fair. When thats done you can haul the fuse out to the hangar and do the final assy there.
Ryan
 
Welcome to VAF Randal,
Look for Rob Holmes posts here in the archives. He built his RV-4 in his living room I believe. Has pictures to prove it can be done. Good luck.
 
I'm building mine in half of a 2-car garage. It's on the gear now, with empennage & engine installed, and my wife can still park her Civic next to it & I park outside. I also have a 10x20 pre-fabbed storage shed in my back yard where I store the RV-4 wings, lawn equip, christmas lights, & misc other "stuff".

My 10x20 shed was built by "Lark" & delivered and set-up in the back yard. I had also looked into building a detached garage in the back yard, but the city building codes wouldn't allow a permanent structure to be built within xx feet of the property line or the nearby power lines. However, a "portable" or non-permanent structure was OK. 10x20 is actually pretty roomy, but I'm not sure I'd want to try & build an entire plane in there, although I think most parts could be done before final assy.

In the garage, I've made use of PVC pipe, nylon rope, & J-hooks to make little trapese's hanging from the ceiling. That way I've been able to easily store a LOT of parts out of the way. That's how I stored the canopy until ready to cut/fit it last summer; also kept most of the completed empennage parts and long angle stock hanging in the ceiling that way.

To address your other point, I'll just add that having the project close by, in the house, has made a HUGE difference in my rate of progress. Before I owned a home w/ a garage, I kept the project in a distant tractor-barn/work-shop that my dad owned (plenty of workspace, lots of tools & it was all free). The big downside, progress was VERY slow, as I could only get to it on odd weekends or vacation time.

I'd say the rate of progress on any airplane project is probably proportional to it's distance from your kitchen.

The closer it is, the more often you'll work on it, and the easier it will be to slip out to the garage for a few minutes to drill some holes or prime a bracket, or just admire your work. Plus, it's fun to watch people's reaction when they walk by and see an airplane in the garage.

Best of luck to you & your daughter,
 
It Can be Done in a One Car Garage

Nick Seraphinoff, Tech Advisor for Chapter 13 has built 8 or 9 planes in a one car garage, including 3 RVs and 2 or 3 Thorp T18s. He used the rafters for storage as well as putting large assemblies in the back yard under tarps. Not much storage in the house, which was small and had no basement. Painting was done in the back yard in a "tent" spray booth. He test flew his last project (RV6) in 2004 on his 85th birthday. I've been out of contact with Nick for 4 or 5 years now. I feel bad about that. My build would have been much different without his advice and presence. He's on my all time list of "Unforgettable Characters".
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N3323TP
 
ignacio #4!
The canopy idea really stirred me. It made me look at alternatives. Thank you!

131RB #5
That is what I was hoping to hear. Plus it reminds me to make sure I keep my ear to the ground at the local GA airport for space to do the final-final assembly. Thank you.

Vladyspassky #6
I am a noob to building and to this site. 15 minutes and I can't find the posts you are talking about. I found a Rob Holmes in the membership list (twice) but he has no posts. I would love to learn about his living room building experience. Could you help me find his posts? I feel like an idiot for not finding them and thank you in advance if you could direct me even a bit.

Les Boatright #7
Your comment... "the rate of progress on any airplane project is probably proportional to it's distance from your kitchen." is sage wisdom and pithy as well. I will have to find a chance to throw it into conversation at the next EAA1418 meeting. It sure rang home to me, so to speak. Between you and ignacio, I finally feel like I am headed in a reasonable direction. I really appreciate you taking the time to impart so much good advice. Thank you.

terrykohler #8
You clinched it for me. Nick must be an amazing guy. Was he a veteran? Being 90 plus now, he may have been. Maybe even Air Force? The spray booth issue also helps me ponder this whole thing. Thank you.

Everyone
I must tell you as a noob that I am blown away at how responsive you are. More importantly you had great ideas and wise thoughts that actually made a huge difference in my plans. I will finalize my plans soon and then let you all know what I am doing. Thank you all again so much.
 
Everbleed;394424 [SIZE="5" said:
Vladyspassky #6[/SIZE]
I am a noob to building and to this site. 15 minutes and I can't find the posts you are talking about. I found a Rob Holmes in the membership list (twice) but he has no posts. I would love to learn about his living room building experience. Could you help me find his posts? I feel like an idiot for not finding them and thank you in advance if you could direct me even a bit.



.


:eek: strange I can not find him either. Anyway I bought an instrument from him couple years ago and saved some pictures from his website. Rob is a cool guy and a talented engineer. Here he is

RobsRV.jpg


robholmes.jpg
 
:eek: strange I can not find him either. Anyway I bought an instrument from him couple years ago and saved some pictures from his website. Rob is a cool guy and a talented engineer. Here he is

He's not hard to find - he just posted today on a thread in teh RV-3 forum - try "rph142" I beleive. I have used his RV-3 site extensively!
 
Its really not that hard to find space. I am building a -3B in my 750sq ft apartment like Rob. I will probably be ordering my QB wings here shortly and my living room will have a wing rack. :) The fuse is going to be a tight squeeze but it will happen.
 
Living Room Build

I catch **** for my RC planes all over the house already. If I built the RV-10 in the house, I'd be in serious trouble :eek:! Metal shavings and carpet don't mix :D.
 
One car garage here

and I am building an 8A. You have to get creative, it is a pain in the ****, more space is nice. But thats what I had, and it worked fine.

Randy
 
I told you all I would let you know what I decided to do. So here goes.

I am going to build a temporary structure that is 20 feet long by 10 feet wide and has a 4 foot by 8 foot extension on the middle of one side. (Total 232 sq. ft.) I am using 4 - 4"x10" beams on pier blocks, and then screwing 1-1/8" TG floor ply as my floor. (No floor framing, just the heavy ply.) The walls will be 2"x2" douglas fir sticks 24" on center, overlaid top, bottom, and middle with fir wiggle-molding and green opaque fiberglass panels. The roof will be made the same way but using 2"x4"s and clear fiberglass panels over the whole roof. The roof will be a shed roof and one wall will be 9 feet tall and the other 8 feet tall with the roof facing south-west. The 4X8 extension will have its roof sloped opposite the main roof. One end of the building will be readily removable to allow easy access for removing the completed fuselage and wings, etc. The access door will be also homemade and 3 feet wide. Using radius crown and wiggle moldings the building can be made virtually weather-tight. I will pre-install box fans and filters on either end for ventilation and of course to use it as a spray booth when that joyful time finally arrives. The whole building will be number marked and able to be disassembled in sections. It will be literally 5 feet from my master-bathroom exterior door. I can get from my "bed to shed" in 6 seconds. The kitchen is 3 seconds more! It is not in my living room, but is darn close to it! Beats the heck out of our originally planned 1.5 hour commute.

I should mention, (because I know you have all thunk it by now), that this sounds kinda expensive for a poor working stiff. You are correct, and for any of you in the same boat as I, it would be. But... I just happen to manage a successful (even now) specialty wood molding products manufacturing facility owned by a man who owns the local True Value and the local lumber yard (as well as a good size chunk of town). I already have the beams, and my friend and boss is going to sell me at cost the rest of the materials and let me take time to pay it off! One of the things I make is wiggle molding so I have all I need for free just using "blemishes". On top of that, my best friend's machine shop is just around the corner from my work and he has three fully operational CNC mills and is a great CAD designer and machinist. My commute time from home to work is four minutes. So my daughter and I are very fortunate. This project was "meant to be".

I am taking all of your very kind and generous advice and putting in lots of electrical and light and everything else suggested here. (I pay net cost plus 10% for everything at the True Value. A nice employee benefit we all enjoy.)

Oh, and I should clarify some things. The plane is already half way done. Yes there is a load of work left to do and we plan to build it VFR to start, and at the same time make a second control panel to allow us to upgrade with a GML glass panel and auto pilot as soon as we can. We will install the servo mounts and wires now as well as the light wires and other stuff so we can make the conversion without too much grief. We were lucky to get a Lycoming 150 with under 500 FACTORY hours on it and the seller is throwing in ALL of the tools with the kit as well as the custom seats he had made for it. Every part, every steam guage, the radio, the intercom, even a g-meter is included. The engine is complete, totally. We got really lucky with this deal which is why we bought it. It was just too darn good to pass up.

One more thing. I am not the pilot. My 15 year old daughter is the flier in the family. She flies on average twice a month and just yesterday did another cross country flight lasting two hours with total cloud cover above and heavy head winds. She has been flying since she was twelve and has 44 hours of instructor time (mostly in a '46 J3 Cub) and about 20 or more hours of ride time in 14 different planes. She has already graduated ground school and is taking her FAA PP written exam in three weeks. Her medical exam is in two weeks. She solos this July 11th and gets her PP 365 days later. She is currently a sophomore and has been singularly focused on attending the USAF Academy since 8th grade. She has been studying Arabic for two years, has played piano for 10 years, rides horses, drives cars and trucks, has a 4.0 GPA, and is the Secretary (and mascot) of our local EAA chapter. She has even flown a '47 Stearman 5 times as well as being wrung out in a Harmon Rocket and then learning to wring herself out in the same plane. She LOVES aerobatics. She loves flying.

And it is she who wants to build this plane. Besides wanting her own plane, she also wants her repairman's certificate, so she has a lot of work ahead of her.

We are painting the plane hot surveyors pink. Her name will be in rhinestones just below the skirt of the canopy. A girls plane. She is even planning to make a pink jump suit and matching accoutrement.

Seriously. I kid you not.
 
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Wow!

...talk about father/daughter bonding....too cool.

I hope you're taking pictures and documenting all your work. Not to long from now, when your daughter is gone, you'll look back at those times and savor fond memories.

Best,
 
I think she's on the Air Circus album

One more thing. I am not the pilot. My 15 year old daughter is the flier in the family. She flies on average twice a month and just yesterday did another cross country flight lasting two hours with total cloud cover above and heavy head winds. She has been flying since she was twelve and has 44 hours of instructor time (mostly in a '46 J3 Cub) and about 20 or more hours of ride time in 14 different planes. She has already graduated ground school and is taking her FAA PP written exam in three weeks. Her medical exam is in two weeks. She solos this July 11th and gets her PP 365 days later. She is currently a sophomore and has been singularly focused on attending the USAF Academy since 8th grade. She has been studying Arabic for two years, has played piano for 10 years, rides horses, drives cars and trucks, has a 4.0 GPA, and is the Secretary (and mascot) of our local EAA chapter. She has even flown a '47 Stearman 5 times as well as being wrung out in a Harmon Rocket and then learning to wring herself out in the same plane. She LOVES aerobatics. She loves flying.

I don't want to kidnap this thread, but she sounds like an amazingly focused young woman. You need to get her a copy of Air Circus by Barb MacLeod. I has one particularly song about a young woman much like your daughter.

Good luck with all these endeavors!
 
Can't find Air Circus

Hi Ms. Hose,

I searched Amazon, Lala, and iTunes and cannot find Air Circus or Barb MacLeod. Can you help me find it?

And thank you for your kind words. Her mother and I are very proud of her and thankful she is so focused. We live in a major pot growing region where all but 2 of her classmates come from "growing" families. This area is also the Mecca of Woo. (To give you an idea, only 20 of 211 students in her high school accepted the free H1N1 vaccine.) So being focused on flying keeps her straight and too busy to do all the things (drinking, smoking, screwing) her classmates are doing.

But most importantly, she and I have found aviators and airplane builders in particular, to be a simply wonderful group of people. Intelligent, mannered, helpful, funny, ethical, rational and beautiful. It is they who have had a profound impact on her. And all of them have taken her under their wings. That is how the RV4 deal came about in the first place. Her flying friends want her to have her own plane.

And to Pierre....
Last month we travelled 4.5 hours to meet a female Light Colonel who is an Admissions Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. We also met one Junior from the Academy and four AFROTC cadets. It was a wonderful event. Except for one thing. I started missing my daughter right then and there. The Academy takes her just two weeks after her high school graduation. She won't even be eighteen yet and she will be gone. That is one reason for the airplane. She can fly from Colorado Springs due north to Laramie and then head due west to us. 6 hours and she can be home.

I am sucking up every minute I can with her... while I still can.
 
Terrific Story !!

Look at the first of the Old Posts for the best view

Is where I built mine. I cemented the fuselage jig to the floor.

Whilst it would be great to have plenty of room it isn't necessary.

I really envy your daughter's steadfast nature. It is terrible to see young people waste their lives "on the hoover" as we say in Australia. (smokin bongs) By the time they realize the terrible mistake they have made ( if they do ) so many bad decisions have already been made it is a struggle to pick their lives back up. I hope her classmates and contemporaries look to her for an inspirational example.
 
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This area is also the Mecca of Woo. (To give you an idea, only 20 of 211 students in her high school accepted the free H1N1 vaccine.) So being focused on flying keeps her straight and too busy to do all the things (drinking, smoking, screwing) her classmates are doing.

only found one nasty reference to woo- cigarettes with formaldahyde? is that for real?

and I think it is real neat, special how your daughter has been encouraged to seek productive experiences in life rather than dead end pot smoking.

but nothing wrong with refusing the h1n1 vaccine, the whole h1n1 flu scare was way overblown. most of europe admits it was basically a hoax, and the big beneficiary was the vaccine makers.

but how's the shop building going? got it up yet? :)
 
Woo ?

I was wondering what you guys were on about but now I remember hearing something about treating pot with formalin.

Yeah Mate send us some pics of your shed once it's done. !!

:)
 
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