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SPOT messenger - pirep on new unit please

flyboy1963

flyboy1963

Well Known Member
Anyone using the new compact SPOT satellite GPS messenger, as they are calling it.?

Is it better or worse than the old one?

For $65 more, you get one more type of 'I'm okay' type message, it's smaller, and takes stupid AAA batteries, which are not as common, and way more expensive than AA, especially Lithium.

I've seen them for sale at about $149...any better deals out there?

...apparently there is a trade-in rebate of $25 and you can rollover your current subscription or something.

any feedback appreciated.
 
flyboy1963 said:
Anyone using the new compact SPOT satellite GPS messenger, as they are calling it.?

Is it better or worse than the old one?

For $65 more, you get one more type of 'I'm okay' type message, it's smaller, and takes stupid AAA batteries, which are not as common, and way more expensive than AA, especially Lithium.

I've seen them for sale at about $149...any better deals out there?

...apparently there is a trade-in rebate of $25 and you can rollover your current subscription or something.

any feedback appreciated.
Click to expand...

Also look at in use battery battery life...... The new one is way lower. I think I will keep the old one unless they want to give me the new one...... no, I won't do that either.

A trade in value of $25.00 when I paid $140.00 for mine just 60 days before they handed them out free at OSKOSH................ I don't think so!!
 
Probably not a good idea to use NIMH batteries in a spot. They point out in their manual that they use lithium batteries both for long life and that they (briefly) draw large amounts of current. The voltage sag on NIMH may be too much to keep the unit working reliably.
 
kevinh said:
Probably not a good idea to use NIMH batteries in a spot. They point out in their manual that they use lithium batteries both for long life and that they (briefly) draw large amounts of current. The voltage sag on NIMH may be too much to keep the unit working reliably.
Click to expand...

Ah, my bad, didn't know about such.
 
Free tracking for a year

We bought a new Spot today from Bass Pro and the guy at the counter gave us a coupon for 1 year free tracking ($49 value). You must buy the $17 equipment replacement plan online when you pay for your first year subscription. The coupon code is "BASSPRO", this is a public promotion, you don't have to buy from Bass Pro to use it, you just have to sign up for new service. There are other dealers using similar promotion codes.
 
Real world example

I just got to experience a successful use of SPOT in an emergency. A good friend of mine has been planning a hunting trip into the Idaho back-country. Along with a couple of buddies and horses, they trekked into the wilderness northwest of McCall, Idaho in search of elk, deer, and other targets of opportunity.

This evening, at about 5pm PST, his SPOT transmitted a 911-Send Help message.

His wife immediately contacted the local sherriff, who said they wouldn't do anything until another ping was received.

She went directly over the sherriff's head and called the local LifeFlight. They got a chopper in the air, using the GPS coordinates from SPOT, and located the hunting party at about 11pm PST.

One member of the party had broken their pelvic bone and was life-flighted to Boise for treatment. Without the SPOT, they would have had to ride out for help, delaying medical attention (and pain killers) for almost two days.

Good ending to a potentially difficult situation.
 
I thought the 911 button would automatically dispatch the cavalry in the form of official search and rescue of some kind? The "help" button just sends a message to whomever you have designated on the setup. Do you know which button they used?
Inquiring minds want to know!
 
dmaib said:
I thought the 911 button would automatically dispatch the cavalry in the form of official search and rescue of some kind? The "help" button just sends a message to whomever you have designated on the setup. Do you know which button they used?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Click to expand...

It does not call the calvary, unless they can't get hold of anyone you've listed. For instance, my cell phone was the first called by personal from SPOT. In my case, it was accidental activation from my wife's headset sitting on the SPOT unit. From activation, to call was within two minutes. We had just got out of the plane.

L.Adamson
 
SPOT 2

I just bought the SPOT 2 prior to my trip from Maryland and following the Missouri River all the way to its end and on to Salmon, Idaho. It cost $150 plus another $150 annual subscription which included the web page tracking service. The device worked perfectly the entire trip, logging my position every 10 minutes. Family and friends were able to track my progress via the internet. They liked that a lot. At each stop I would send a pre-canned "Safe on deck" email to the wife. At the end of the day I'd send a pre-canned "Safe on deck, done for the day" email. Fortunately I never had to use the other two pre-canned messages: "I need help" and "SOS". It was very reassuring to have the SPOT on this trip, as I flew over some pretty remote country. The batteries supplied with the unit lasted the entire trip. I had a spare set just in case.
 
I haven't been able to talk to the people involved. All my data is from her facebook posts and the SPOT tracking page for his trip.

She says that the "911 Help" signal was activated at 4:56 pm. Her facebook update was at about 5:05 pm. I'm assuming she got a call from SPOT immediately.

She contacted the local sherriff.and when he balked at initiating SAR, she contacted SPOT and AirMed. After the hunting party was located and airlifted out, the sherriff tried to take credit for the SAR.

She says that SPOT was working with her to get SAR initiated.
 
SPOT 2

I just bought my SPOT 2 from Pacific Coast Avionics for $139. It's the annual subscription costs that "hurt". $149/yr if you include the tracking feature. But a person honestly has to think of it as portable rescue insurance and what kind of price can you put on that?
 
rv9av8tr said:
I just bought my SPOT 2 from Pacific Coast Avionics for $139. It's the annual subscription costs that "hurt". $149/yr if you include the tracking feature. But a person honestly has to think of it as portable rescue insurance and what kind of price can you put on that?
Click to expand...

And $13/year for the $100K of SAR insurance if you want it. I think my last "with tax/etc" annual bill was $176.

But, I've enjoyed my SPOT. I've let it lapse for now, but it will be renewed when I head out of the local area next...
 
Or you can stop in at Tracy Municipal Airport (KTCY) and pick one up in person. I'll even buy you a cup of coffee! :D
 
Not defending but maybe the same sheriff?

DakotaHawk said:
She contacted the local sherriff.and when he balked at initiating SAR, she contacted SPOT and AirMed. After the hunting party was located and airlifted out, the sherriff tried to take credit for the SAR.

She says that SPOT was working with her to get SAR initiated.
Click to expand...


Frank Lester (Idaho Dept. of Aeronautics) told a story at a pilot refresher clinic this spring. An Idaho sheriff got to put together two search parties for the same group. They used the 911 button once because they were a bit low on food, and then again because someone had twisted an ankle. After the second non-emergency they were invited :rolleyes: to leave the backcountry. So there is at least one Sheriff that might be a little jaded.

However, I'm glad the wife was persistent. I suppose it makes sense for our outside contact to understand what sorts of situations we would be willing to press that 911 button, so they can better advocate on our behalf (or not, if running out of coffee is on our 911 list :p )

I suppose the basic principle at work here is the quality of the emergencies will have some impact on future urgency granted to these 911 triggers.

The silver lining might happen for the next party needing 911 response, the sherrif may not sit on his ***.
 
Pirep SPOT II, very happy with it

We are using our second, second generation unit (first Spot II went back for factory recall). I couldn't be happier with it. The unit is extremely precise on the location, probably within 15 feet or less. It is maybe a third or a fourth of the size of the first gen Spot or my older PLB, so you can pocket it or attach it almost anywhere. Even though we use the same satellites as the Globalstar phones, I haven't noticed the low usability the phone users have. All transmissions seem to come through. (OK messages only thus far and I don't do the tracking)

The PLB is still in the airplane bag, for a few different reasons, one of which has to do with response type, who gets called....etc. Hiking down the trail, biking, exploring and such, the SPOT is what goes in the pack.
 
Activation "meaning"

DakotaHawk said:
Here's a link to a Boise newspaper article about the SPOT activation that I described yesterday. This sheriff sounds like he just can't be bothered to do his job anymore. I understand the frustration of allocating scarce resources, but a SPOT activation has got to mean something!

http://www.ktvb.com/home/Locating-b...-to-users-headaches-for-others-103099444.html
Click to expand...

Scott,
Thanks for the link. Yes, activation does mean something, but as the article describes, it means one thing to the person that triggers it in need, and unfortunately, more of just a question to the responders :confused:. Per the article, Spot activations from the Boise Cabelas store..... you gotta be kidding. Unfortunately, they aren't.

Because of this developing pattern, I think collectively as Spot users, we best do every thing we can to eliminate nuisance trips. Each nuisance trip has a strong possibility of downgrading the urgency of future respones.

If we've got one of the old units, is there a way to protect the 911 button from a inadvertent trip? Or when funds allow, upgrade to the newer unit with the protected buttons? And everybody, gen 1 or 2, use 911 in real emergencies only. I may not see the whole picture here, but it seems like these days with ever tighter county budgets, those that are charged with "rescue" are going get even slower if the SPOT user community continues to have numerous frivolous trips.

This illustrates why some folks have gone the 406 ELT route. In Idaho, the Division of Aeronautics is charged with coordinating searches for downed or missing aircraft. When there is a 406 ELT ping, they get a call from Tyndall AFB, Rescue coordination center (RCC). Then, Aeronautics will get a CAP or state aircraft in the air looking for the crash site if it is not already known. As it works in Idaho, when crash location is know, at that point it goes to the county Sheriff for the actual rescue. But, the Dept of Aeronautics will also be pushing the sheriff to get a rescue going, in addition to the family, so there is likely some benefit with the 406 PLB chain of communications.

I think it works similar with a 406 PLB, though the Div. of Aeronatics would not be on the RCCs call list. However, I've instructed my emergency contacts to get the Div. of Aeronautics involved and I've listed my tail number in the PLB and Spot registration. Even so, I suspect the PLB and Spot will not carry the same impact as a 406 ELT.
 
If they billed the user for the SAR costs if it was a false alarm, I bet users would be a bit more protective over the 911 button. Most cities charge for a false house alarm, so I can see something changing on these PLB's being sold.
 
Thanks for the link. Yes, activation does mean something, but as the article describes, it means one thing to the person that triggers it in need, and unfortunately, more of just a question to the responders :confused:. Per the article, Spot activations from the Boise Cabelas store..... you gotta be kidding. Unfortunately, they aren't.
Click to expand...

In our case of "accidental activation" (headset sitting on SPOT 911 button), the SPOT personal could see that we were at an airport, and they called my cell phone first.........before sending out the troops. This method will at least eliminate some of the nuisance activations & followups.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I do not think that Spot is the same as a PLB, which my 406 MHz unit is.

I also suspect...but do not know...that if I activate my 406 PLB, it will get just as much action as an ELT.
 
Ron Lee said:
I do not think that Spot is the same as a PLB, which my 406 MHz unit is.

I also suspect...but do not know...that if I activate my 406 PLB, it will get just as much action as an ELT.
Click to expand...

You are correct.

Your 406 PLB and 406 ELT are supported by international convention under the international COSPAS/SARSAT agreement, and are escalated immediately to the relevant SAR authority.

SPOT is a commercial product supported by a commercial service using a commercial, non SAR satellite system (GlobalStar, IIRC). The response you get upon activation depends on the protocols that the commercial service provider has in place, and their relationship with SAR resources.

For example, our product (not SPOT) allows the customer to specify cellphone numbers which will receive distress messages via SMS, but we also require ICE contact lists, as SMS is not reliable, and there is no guarantee that the nominated cellphones will be turned on. When our 24x7 monitoring team receives a distress message, we immediately start calling the relevent ICE contacts, and if we cannot contact them or achieve a formal handover, we call the relevant SAR authority for the distress location, using protocols established by the US NSARC working group for commercial tracking providers.

For what its worth, we lasted for three years without charging for false activations, but once we we started receiving mulitple alerts daily ("what does this button do?", "Oops" and "I just wanted to make sure the system works") we had no option but to apply a nominal fee (US$75 per incident) for false alarms as they diverted valuable resources from genuine emergencies. Our false alarms stopped overnight.
 
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Ron Lee said:
I also suspect...but do not know...that if I activate my 406 PLB, it will get just as much action as an ELT.
Click to expand...
I've always been of the belief a 406 beacon was an ELT/EPIRB, but obviously transmitting on a different frequency to what we're traditionally used too.
 
KRviator said:
I've always been of the belief a 406 beacon was an ELT/EPIRB, but obviously transmitting on a different frequency to what we're traditionally used too.
Click to expand...

In the 406 MHz arena, you have:

1) ELT models: Aircraft
2) EPIRB models: Boats
3) PLB models: Personal use, eg hiking, camping, etc.

Obviously there can be crossover in use since my PLB is carried while flying but it does not meet ELT standards for mounting, activation, etc.

Google the terms in case I am wrong.
 
ELT or PLB (both 406)

Ron Lee said:
I do not think that Spot is the same as a PLB, which my 406 MHz unit is.

I also suspect...but do not know...that if I activate my 406 PLB, it will get just as much action as an ELT.
Click to expand...


I don't know that the PLB will get the same "action" as an ELT. While the 406 ELTs, 406 PLBs, and 406 EPIRBs (marine) may all have the same sort of electronic guts, talk to the same satellite network, and etc, what they communicate about the user will have some downstream impact. For us flyers, if it is a 406 ELT rather than the 406 PLB, that will pull different resources into the search and rescue chain (Div of Aeronautics). I speak regarding Idaho, other states and countries I don't know, but to suggest a PLB and a ELT gets treated the same from activation, clear through to rescue, I think one would need a fair bit of local knowledge to be able to make that assessment.

Generally speaking, one of the factors that contributes to a prompt and smooth SAR mission is knowing what you are looking for, and that is where the PLB may sometimes be at a disadvantage. All the 406 transmitters with the GPS option tell you where, but with the PLB, the rescuers don't really know what they are looking for unless there is additional information. Ok, maybe the RCC will pull from the database, but info could be old and general. Better, if the RCC reach a contact with your trip details, then that unknown should go away. That kind of uncertainty can slow things down. On the other hand, 406 ELT, well right away they know they are looking for an aircraft, they've got the tail number, type, and color, and if it is transmitting from an off airport location, they probably are thinking about trauma patients and the need to get there promptly.
 
nuisance notification management

chinch said:
For what its worth, we lasted for three years without charging for false activations, but once we we started receiving mulitple alerts daily ("what does this button do?", "Oops" and "I just wanted to make sure the system works") we had no option but to apply a nominal fee (US$75 per incident) for false alarms as they diverted valuable resources from genuine emergencies. Our false alarms stopped overnight.
Click to expand...

Chris,
An economic incentive to change behavior. Glad to hear that worked, I like it. Expensive enough to create some awareness, but not so expensive that it would inhibit declaring an actual emergency.

Any unintended consequences you can share?
 
nomocom said:
Generally speaking, one of the factors that contributes to a prompt and smooth SAR mission is knowing what you are looking for, and that is where the PLB may sometimes be at a disadvantage. All the 406 transmitters with the GPS option tell you where, but with the PLB, the rescuers don't really know what they are looking for unless there is additional information.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct - which is why new Iridium personal tracking units with bidirectional global text messaging and 911 alerts are being looked at with special interest by SAR authorities that we work with. It makes a big difference knowing WHAT the situation is as well as WHERE it is.
 
nomocom said:
Any unintended consequences you can share?
Click to expand...

Hi Stan,

None that I can think of. We were careful to make sure everyone knew that genuine incidents would not be charged for, and to make sure that installers and operators could test new installations or changes to their settings without penalty.

Actually, a lot of our customers asked why we didn't do it earlier - one of the benefits of working with customers whose job it is to put themselves in harms way for others: they understand what we do and why we do it. We're pretty lucky to have such awesome customers...

(Sorry to hijack the thread - it's a subject that's been part of my daily life for the better part of five years, and on this forum, it's nice to find a conversation in which I can actually answer a question or two!)
 
Urgency with SPOT

chinch said:
(Sorry to hijack the thread
Click to expand...
Not at all! I appreciate hearing what worked for your area.

OK, maybe the original question was a bit lighter topic, battery life, size, and etc. Regardless, this is a good topic for all of us Spot users, as we have a vested interest in the tool being taken seriously by rescuers. If it isn't, then its not worth the $ or packing it around, may even do harm, in that we might not choose another solution that might actually work better.

I'd like to see a those in charge of SAR, take a quiz much like we have on this forum about what kind of oil we use, only the quiz would ask them, "What response best describes the urgency when the SPOT Team notifies your department of a 911 call in your geographic area of responsibility?

1) hardly any, maybe the persons next position will be in the neighboring jurisdiction.
2) low, wait and see what else we hear, then decide
2) medium, send someone to check it out, if we can get there easily
3) medium high, need to get a team together over the next 12 hours and get out there to see what help is needed.
4) High, need to get a team together immediately and get someone in there on the ground ASAP
5) Extremely urgent, get an aircraft over the sight, maybe even life flight ASAP

Interesting, the story Scott Stewart shared, the sheriff was probably a 2, and though we don't know what all happened between 5pm and 11pm, it was likely a 4 or 5 level of response from the family.
 
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