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Those pesky leading edge rib to spar rivet-conquered!

ksdflying

Well Known Member
Friend
Those "solid" rivet call outs for riveting the leading edge assembly ribs to main spar...most folks acquiesce and pull LP4 pop rivets or such. I challenged this task and I engineered a way to stick with the vans design! ...by driving the impossible to reach SOLID rivets in the leading edge ribs.
QA results: No smiley faces. No bent over shop heads. No gaps between ribs n spar.

What? How?: I drew up and tolerance'd a big steel block that holds five AN470 rivet sets. Imaging a rectangle block approx. 7" x 2.5" x 2.5" weighing about 13lbs or so. Placed this engineered tooling inside the leading edge assembly. Imagine if you have the wing in a jig/stand at this time, like you are supposed to at this phase, then this block lays inside and on top of the main spar. Then I back riveted vertically from the wing's aft side with a 12" offset back riveting set. Pretty awesome.
I was able to coax the Vans team into sharing with me actual dimensions for hole locations! Then I tolerance'd the tooling for the machinist.

Essentially this process is a heavy steel block (heavy mass desired) to back rivet against. And use a medium sized automotive ball-joint spreader as a pry bar. This remedied the long reach and clamping need. Basically my mission was to harness the easiest rivet method...back riveting, for purpose of best possible Quality.

I'll try to add photos here. But I am willing to align with anyone and lend you this tooling...even give a helping hand.
Sticking to the drawing and managing quality results equals finesse. An awesome feeling.
 
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Pictures

I would be happy to help with posting pics, I am sure others would like to see them, as would I.

I believe you are building an 8, is that correct?

PM me if you would like me to post the pictures and I can give you my email.
 
Photos

Here are ksdflying's photos and some description:

My mission on this project was to engineer a way to stick with the vans design! ...by driving the impossible to reach SOLID rivets in the leading edge ribs... as the plans call out.

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Essentially this process is a heavy steel block (lots of mass) to back rivet against. Using a medium sized ball joint spreader as a pry bar for one person to hold while I back rivet vertically to form the shop head. It worked!

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I captured 2 photos of each rib's set of rivets for QA evidence. But for posting purposes, here is 1 pair of pictures (Front and Back) I took as proof of our results on one of the ribs!


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JoopSJ,
Ah. Perhaps. Seems to make sense. In my case I had already riveted the main ribs to the spar. So I was limited by that. And had to go this route. But this process might work...one would just have to predict this ahead of time enough. Also you would still have to get the bucking bar on the inside for the main ribs though after the leading edge...but that other method may work. I see the logic.
 
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JoopSJ,
Ah. Perhaps. Seems to make sense. In my case I had already riveted the main ribs to the spar. So I was limited by that. And had to go this route. But this process might work...one would just have to predict this ahead of time enough. Also you would still have to get the bucking bar on the inside for the main ribs though after the leading edge...but that other method may work. I see the logic.

Yeah, I think most builders already riveted the main ribs at that stage. I came across that post and decided to leave them clecko'd.
I sill didn't attach the LE so I can not say whether or not the trick works for me. As you said, it would require some fumbling with the bucking bar.

If I could get a hold on your bucking system I would rather do it your way
Cheers
 
Absolutely brilliant ! Where were you 3 years ago. ...

I seem to remember the rivet spacing changes from one rib to another or is it the same ? In other words: Did you set up once per rib and then back riveted all rivets or did you set up one rivet at the time ?
 
Ha! Wish I could've helped.
Yes the rivet spacing changes 3 times in those 6 ribs. From inboard to outboard of that leading edge we have the first rib that its flange is shorter and 5 rivet holes are closer. I made a second tooling (aka round 6" bucking bar for this one rib...it has a specific placed hole for the AN470 rivet set on one end, and then a polish face on the other end for use when bucking the main wing skins later.
Anyways, Then the next two ribs have a common hole pattern. This is when the tooling block, that you saw in the photos above, comes into play.
Then the last THREE ribs share a different hole pattern again. Thus note here the tooling block I made has 7 holes total. Hence you just have to move accordingly two of the AN470 sets.

So yes, you're correct.

And I bought five AN470 rivet sets so they were all common in size, and installed those five in 5 of the 7 holes in the block accordingly to the particular rib. Then for the second group of ribs, you just move two of the rivet sets to the remaining 2 of the 7 holes and then that matches accordingly the rivets for those ribs.

Hope that helps explain. I have my dropbox updated. I'll try to post another pic of the tooling next.
Dan
 
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JoopSJ,
absolutely you can. PM me and we can figure this out. I can get you more info to explain all this, and some more pics if that helps. It's all doable, and like I said I absolutely would do this all over again. It is tricky. You have to finesse the shop heads with the 12" offset back riving rivet set. But again, doable with good success.
 
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Long shot but do you still have the rivet block? About to fix LE to the spar

Hi there!
Sorry, I don't get on here much lately. But always feel free to PM me. I will PM you on here and get you my contact info if you still wish. But YES, I have that block, and the matched "sets" for it. I've lent it out before and have it all back. Feedback from that was that " It took a bit to understand and get the rivets driven right."
Anyways, happy to help. I'm not looking to make money on this. Just happy to help. Its not the easiest process, definitely a 2 person task. The steel block and other tools are sorta heavy items to ship.
Cheers,
*P.S.: Looks like for some reason I can not send you a PM. So here is my email: [email protected].
 
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