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Seriously considering buying built RV12 - what to keep in mind

pietermk

Well Known Member
I was looking at several RV12?s between $55K - $60K. Besides the pre buy inspection and other things, I realized that none of these ads mentioned compliance with the nose gear and fork SB.

Not a really big factor as I can do it but that really made me think about other things to keep in mind. One of them did the rubber replacement on the Rotax already. Do I remember correctly 500 hours or 5 years?

Thanks in advance,

Peter
 
5 years on coolant hoses and non-silicone fuel hoses. 500 hours on engine driven fuel pumps. Van?s says 10 years on the oil hoses they supply. Take a look at Vans support tab and get the seller to tell you how they handled the Safety alert, Service Bulletins and Notifications. It should be recorded in their logs.
 
5 years on coolant hoses and non-silicone fuel hoses. 500 hours on engine driven fuel pumps. Van?s says 10 years on the oil hoses they supply. Take a look at Vans support tab and get the seller to tell you how they handled the Safety alert, Service Bulletins and Notifications. It should be recorded in their logs.

Thank you will do.

Peter
 
I have an RV 12 WITH 180 HRS, 2012 THAT I BUILT, ITS A GREAT FLYING AIRPLANE WITH ALL SB'S COMPLIED WITH EXCEPT THE FRONT STRUT WHICH IS ON ORDER, DELIVERY IN JULY. One would not have to install the kit for years.IT HAS SKYVIEW WITH AUTO, COLLISION AND WEATHER plus backup Garmin and altitude
I would sell for the price range you suggested would and have vans send you the kit. THE PLANE IS LOCATED IN MY HANGAR IN RIDGELAND, SC

REASON FOR SELLING IS I BUILT A SLING 2

if interested send me an email at [email protected] and I will send you pics.

HDDAHL (DOUG) 843 837 7227
 
Peter,
Make sure to actually CONFIRM the SB's have been done. When I was looking for a 12, some sellers were having their A&P sign off on some SB that were not done. Some of the SB call for inspections for cracks... then if no crack to complete the modification at next annual. What I found is some sellers just kept inspecting at the annual instead of complying with the actual retrofit for the SB probably because it was expensive to have it done. Hope this makes sense. There are several SB that can be pretty expensive if you are not doing them yourself. Something to factor when negotiating price.

Also, one cool upgrade is a teflon hose kit for the 912. Extends the 5yr replacement to something like 10yrs IIRC.
 
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That is a very good point Flynfrfun, I had not thought about it that way. I have a flight school that has 2 RV12?s and has a maintenance shop too. I would mostly hire one of their mechanics to do the pre buy as they know about all the SB?s.

I think I have factored in all of the different expenses and it puts me just over a point for fixed expenses a month that leaves me comfortable. Adding the flight hours which cost less can add up. So I am going to look if I can find a partner as that will make it very easy or I will save another 6 to 12 months to create a specific flying fund so it has less impact on our regular finances.

I will put up a post here or is the classifieds a better place?

Peter
 
I have an RV 12 WITH 180 HRS, 2012 THAT I BUILT, ITS A GREAT FLYING AIRPLANE WITH ALL SB'S COMPLIED WITH EXCEPT THE FRONT STRUT WHICH IS ON ORDER, DELIVERY IN JULY. One would not have to install the kit for years.IT HAS SKYVIEW WITH AUTO, COLLISION AND WEATHER plus backup Garmin and altitude
I would sell for the price range you suggested would and have vans send you the kit. THE PLANE IS LOCATED IN MY HANGAR IN RIDGELAND, SC

REASON FOR SELLING IS I BUILT A SLING 2

if interested send me an email at [email protected] and I will send you pics.

HDDAHL (DOUG) 843 837 7227

That is a good deal Doug, I am in the final stages of evaluating the financials.
 
... So I am going to look if I can find a partner as that will make it very easy or I will save another 6 to 12 months to create a specific flying fund so it has less impact on our regular finances.
Peter

I'm in a similar situation. Except for me I know I won't fly enough to justify the monthly costs. If I could find someone with similar mindset I would love to partner too. Too bad you are not in Seattle!:D
 
I'm in a similar situation. Except for me I know I won't fly enough to justify the monthly costs. If I could find someone with similar mindset I would love to partner too. Too bad you are not in Seattle!:D
How many hours a year, or a month, is enough?
 
I'm in a similar situation. Except for me I know I won't fly enough to justify the monthly costs. If I could find someone with similar mindset I would love to partner too. Too bad you are not in Seattle!:D

no too bad you are not in Maryland :D
 
Josh (Fynfurfun) has an excellent point. I built a Searey that unfortunately I lost in an incident on a lake. Bad day to say the least. I was so fed up that I took out my Swiss Army knife and cut out the data plate before pulling the airworthiness certificate and giving it to a guy who said he wanted it for parts. A year later I got a phone call from Canada. The guy had exported it forging my name. I contacted the FAA and their Canadian counterpart who both assured me I had no liability since I have the data plate and deregistered the plane, but neither took legal action against the guy. Then 6 months later another guy called me and asked if he could get the airworthiness certificate so he could claim His Searey was the one I built and avoid an FAA inspection of his build! I gave him the mid finger salute! There are unscrupulous people out there, so when you are reading logs for a prebuy bear in mind you may be reading fiction, not a documentary.
 
How many hours a year, or a month, is enough?

This varies for me. Typically a flight a week or every other week. I belonged to a club which is the most cost efficient. I mean it was CHEAP...$68/hr wet for a 172 in 2015. Currently its still only $77/hr. But there were 65 members (sharing 4 planes) of which you didn't see more than about 10 at the monthly meetings. It felt more like renting. I prefer the pride of ownership even though it will be much more expensive. I?m in my mid 40s. Ideally I would like to partner with a retired gentleman who could enjoy flying weekdays and let me fly weekends. I respect, enjoy being around and like to learn from the older and wiser crowd who have lots of good life lessons to pass down to the younger generation. It would be fun getting together to change the oil on our plane and do whatever maintenance we felt comfortable doing together. OK now I?m dreaming a little:D
 
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This varies for me. Typically a flight a week or every other week. I belonged to a club which is the most cost efficient. I mean it was CHEAP...$68/hr wet for a 172 in 2015. Currently its still only $77/hr. But there were 65 members (sharing 4 planes) of which yo didn't see more than about 10 at the monthly meetings. It felt more like renting. I prefer the pride of ownership even though it will be much more expensive. I’m in my mid 40s. Ideally I would like to partner with a retired gentleman who could enjoy flying weekdays and let me fly weekends. I respect, enjoy being around and like to learn from the older and wiser crowd who have lots of good life lessons to pass down to the younger generation. It would be fun getting together to change the oil on our plane and do whatever maintenance we felt comfortable doing together. OK now I’m dreaming a little:D

I am what you're looking for, but 1000 + miles separates us. Don't know about the older and wiser part, new to aviation here.

Everyone wants to fly weekends, do the $100 burger social runs. That's prime time for fly ins, everyone is off of work.

If I run the numbers, to own, with hangar, insurance, registration, property/luxury tax here in CA, about 10 hours a month or more, might be break even point. I might want to fly that much when first learning and after getting my sport pilot license, but I question how long I will sustain flying that many hours per month.

What I originally thought was a form of transportation is so weather dependent, that its really just a very expensive hobby, going flying. I've been helping a buddy with everything on his RV-12 now for 16 months, through 2 inspection annuals, service bulletins, maintenance, you name it, and I won't kid you, it's a very, very time consuming hobby to keep and maintain an Experimental plane. You lose a gearbox on a Rotax early, due to wear and tear, and the parts add up fast to fix anything on a Rotax. Just a lot of different procedures with a Rotax compared to a Lycoming or Conti.

Floats on Carbs getting heavy and sinking, Carb synching, inspecting prop hubs, Dogs wearing in the gearbox, Belleville washers, lead from 100LL fuel in the clutches and ring seats, etc. Only the spark plugs are cheap. Inspections for chaffing hoses, cracks in aluminum inspections everywhere you can imagine, and some tough to get at unimaginable places too as you get old and less flexible.

If you're mechanically inclined, great, but I don't know too many AP's at the local airport that know much about RV-12s, if you have to pay to get it worked on.
 
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I guess I need to jump in here. It just depends on what you want to do in life... I?m 67 years old, been flying for almost 50 years, and I?d like to fly a lot more before I have to put down the spoon.

So, you buy a $60,000 used airplane that someone else built. About the cost of a real nice car. Fly, enjoy, and when the time comes, sell for residual value. Try selling a 15 year old car. Banks are paying <2% interest and the stock market just lost 30%.

In the meantime, E-LSA is an incredible value. FAA allows self-cert health, you do your own maintenance, take 16-hour course and do your own Annual Cond Inspection. The only ?hired guns? you need are CFI for BFR and avionics shop to certify transponder.

Once all SB?s are complete, the 12 is extremely easy to maintain. Treat the engine like Rotax explains and use Mobil 4T synthetic oil with 93E10 Mogas. Rotax certified technicians at KOSH last year said you need a very good set of mics to measure any engine wear at 2000TT. No Top Overhaul halfway through TBO. Water-cooled heads and heavy cast cylinders stay "round" unlike air-cooled (i.e., quench) cylinders. Almost no oil consumption between 100 hour oil changes with Mobil 4T. Buy Tier-1 auto fuel at Costco for cheap. Liability insurance costs me $400/yr. No hull insurance ? I accept that risk.

Did I say enjoy flying? So, you either sit on the ground and look skyward wishing you were flying, or, you actually do the deed. So far, I?ve been living the dream. Best flights have been with my triplet granddaughters. Grandpa ? can we go fly in your airplane?
 
Seriously considering buying built RV-12

I agree with what Jim said. I am 72 and learned to fly at 21. I bought my RV-12 two years ago and have flown it 100 hours a year. I hope to fly many more years. The RV-12 is not that hard to maintain. And it is the most inexpensive flying you will ever do. And I really like flying my own airplane as opposed to renting or being in a club. When I go to the airport to fly, the airplane is just as I left it. I don't have to wonder if someone abused it since I flew it last. Today I flew about 1.3 hours. When I put it back in the hangar I fueled it, cleaned the windscreen and the leading edges of the wings. It is ready to go again with a quick pre-flight and sump the fuel.

If you get a good pre-buy inspection, I don't think you can go wrong with an RV-12.
 
Jim and John...age is a mindset. You guys are young! Thanks for the great advice!

My wife will be done with school next year. After that she had instructed me to buy a plane. She is worried I will be sitting on the sidelines dreaming and possibly wake up one day physically or mentally unable to fly. Thankfully we are debt free and retirement is being funded properly. So an airplane will not be an irresponsible use of funds at this point. I just have to mentally prepare myself because I?m pretty frugal by nature and your encouragement helps!
 
Seriously considering buying built RV-12

Flynfrfun,

When I made the appointment to go look at the RV-12, I had serious doubts about buying it and affording it. I was ready to cancel the appointment, and I was driving about 8 hours to see it, but my wife told me to go. She said if I didn't go look at it I would wonder about my decision the rest of my life. So I went and most of the drive I was telling myself I would not buy it. Well I saw it, flew it, and bought it. I have not looked back. It has been an amazing two years and I love flying it. My wife likes that I have a hangar to go to. Before I bought it I told my two children that I was spending their inheritance. They both told me to do it.

So it sounds like it is a sound financial move for you so do it.

john
 
I'm in a similar situation. Except for me I know I won't fly enough to justify the monthly costs. If I could find someone with similar mindset I would love to partner too. Too bad you are not in Seattle!:D

I have a similar mindset AND am near Seattle! Over in Seabeck on Kitsap peninsula.
 
Peter,
Here is a checklist I compiled for purchase. There are lots of little steps and just like flying, it's nice to have it all spelled out ahead of time since the buying process could be a little overwhelming. I might have missed some things, but here is what I have:
RV Purchase Steps:
Before I leave home:
Agree on price.
Funds-deposit(Bank Transfer or Escrow). Escrow highly recommended with deposit fully refundable if plane fails pre-buy inspection.
Arrange for pre-purchase inspection
Fly back home? If so do I need instructor for flight? Have I met insurance requirements?
Title Search
Transition Training
Make sure kit bill of sale from Vans Aircraft to builder and then each owner from then on is available
Make sure he has Operators Handbook (different from operating limitations), its like a POH the builder creates.

At time of purchase:
Buyer:
Complete pre-buy inspection. May need to re-negotiate price depending on what is found and update purchase agreement.
Test fly aircraft
Insurance coverage (get updates-hrs, registration #, if another pilot flying it home need his name, DOB, hrs in make/model etc.)
Payment
Bill of sale FAA 8050-2. (Retain pink copy as temporary registration).
Complete FAA form 8050-1 (fill out in duplicate, one copy for me one for seller)
Request kit bill of sale from Vans Aircraft to builder and then each owner from then on.
Get all logs (airframe, engine, prop, construction including flight testing)
Mail 8050-1 and 8050-2 with $5 to FAA when I get home.
Notify Vans of the purchase so I can be included in service bulletin notifications etc.
Update ELT contact info (NOAA)
Seller:
Return registration card (FAA 8050-3 this is in the airplane). Check boxes A&F, then fill in buyer’s information on back of card. Signature, title is “Owner” and date. Mail to FAA in Oklahoma City address is on form
 
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Peter,
Here is a checklist I compiled for purchase. There are lots of little steps and just like flying, it's nice to have it all spelled out ahead of time since the buying process could be a little overwhelming. I might have missed some things, but here is what I have:

Thank you so much for this list, it will be very helpful.

Peter
 
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