What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Good Quality Oil Pressure Sender?

K

Kooshball

Well Known Member
In looking for a replacement for my failed VDO oil pressure sending unit on the IO360 I see that the VDO ones have quite some negative reviews on Aircraft Spruce...so do most of the other sending units...

Is there a consensus on a good quality brand that makes a single terminal unit?

Thx
 
Kooshball said:
In looking for a replacement for my failed VDO oil pressure sending unit on the IO360 I see that the VDO ones have quite some negative reviews on Aircraft Spruce...so do most of the other sending units...

Is there a consensus on a good quality brand that makes a single terminal unit?

Thx
Click to expand...

What are the complaints that the reviewers are posting on the ACs site? FYI VDO does not recommend using single post senders. The single post style relies on the body of the sender to make the ground connection. VDO also makes two post senders. You attach a ground wire to the second post to complete the ground independent of the body of the sending unit itself.

Charlie
 
Last edited:
Is there a Kavlico option with A GRT EIS?

The VDO not only has grounding issues, they wear unpredictably at the normal cruise point as the wiper wears the resistor- yielding false high.
 
+1 for 3 wires

I just replaced my fuel pressure gauge and sender with UMA brand. It came with 3 wires to the sender plus a shield, and the gauge gets 12v from the buss. My original Vans sender and gauge varied for no apparent reason as commented by numerous other posts here. Just FWIW, I wonder if the Vans unit would be more stable with a dedicated ground run to the battery ground bus ?
 
VDO also has better senders

moosepileit said:
Is there a Kavlico option with A GRT EIS?

The VDO not only has grounding issues, they wear unpredictably at the normal cruise point as the wiper wears the resistor- yielding false high.
Click to expand...

The only option on senders is the GRT P/N HS-SS-01 fuel pressure sender for fuel injected engines. Perhaps it's a Kavlico unit??? It sure is pricey, at $156. It also differs from the VDO senders in that it's stainless steel and has 4 wires, rather than 1. The VDO 1 wire senders can be purchases from GRT for $50. The VDO 1 and 2 wire senders are also available for less on Amazon and Jegs Performance [oil temp].

Do you have part numbers for Kavlico sender equivalents? The VDO pressure senders are 10 - 180 ohm units. I have a 20+ year old RMI uMonitor which uses VDO two terminal senders. The original oil pressure sender still works and is accurate. FYI, the uMonitor uses the same 10 - 180 ohm VDO senders, but with two terminals. The second terminal is used to ground the sender. Best methods would be to connect the sender grounds to the "forest of tabs" advocated in the AeroElectric Connection, or directly to the EIS. The two terminal senders are on average about $5 more than the single terminal [ground connection through the sender body] units supplied by GRT.

Below is a list of the VDO part numbers for the single terminal VDO senders supplied by GRT and VDO's two terminal equivalents. VDO recommends using 2 wire senders. The concern is that any sealant used on a 1 wire sender will impair the ground connection. The ground connection will also be affected by the multiple physical connections between the sender and the EIS.

Oil Pressure Transducer 10 bar 1wire VDO P/N 360-004 10 to 180 ohm

Oil Pressure Transducer 10 bar 2 wire VDO P/N 360-430 10 to 180 ohm

I don't know the VDO part number for the 1 wire fuel pressure sender. Below is the info for it's 2 wire equivalent. This is the low pressure sender used for carburetor engines.

Fuel Pressure Transducer 2 bar 2 wire VDO [Carb] P/N 360-043 10 to 180 ohm

OIl & Fuel Pressure Transducer 5 bar 1 wire VDO [FI] P/N 360-003 10 to 180 ohm

Oil & Fuel Pressure Transducer 5 bar 2 wire VDO [FI] P/N 360-410 10 to 180 ohm

All these senders have a 1/8" NPT fitting.

GRT uses both 5 bar [80 PSI] and 10 bar [150 PSI] oil pressure sending units, depending on the EIS's software version.

Download the GRT Troubleshooting guide for the EIS. Read pages 9 -11 regarding the oil pressure. Available at

http://grtavionics.com/media/Troubleshooting-Guide.pdf

Regarding your own problems with the VDO senders, where are/were your senders mounted? False high readings are due to open circuit or poor connections. Bad connection at the wiper would be one of several places that can happen on a 1 wire unit.

Charlie
 
Looks promising

moosepileit said:
Is there a Kavlico option with A GRT EIS?

The VDO not only has grounding issues, they wear unpredictably at the normal cruise point as the wiper wears the resistor- yielding false high.
Click to expand...

Rich,
I just spent a bit of time on the Kavlico web site. Their P4056 series senders look promising. I like the use of Flourosilicone seals and the Packard Metri-Pac 150 electrical connectors. For those of you who aren't gear-heads, the Packard Metri-Pac connectors are used on all GM & Toyota [and other manufacturers] critical engine sensors. I have over 30 years experience with these connectors. They really hold up well. They are also water resistant. It also means that replacement electrical connectors are available at quality auto parts stores. That's a good feature if future replacement is ever necessary.
This series are 0 -5 volt DC, as used by GRT. They are available in the same pressure ratings [2 bar, 5 bar and 10 bar] that GRT uses. The flourosilicone seals mean that you can even use them with E10 unleaded auto fuel. The data sheet says that 1/8" NPT fittings are an available option, like the VDO units GRT uses.
I would really like to hear about your knowledge and experience with the Kavlico brand.

Charlie
 
As of July, 2012, Dynon Avionics supplies the following Kavlico fluid pressure sensors for
monitoring oil pressure, fuel pressure, and coolant pressure:
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101715-000 Kavlico Gravity Fed Fuel / Fluid Pressure Sensor ? 5 PSI
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101690-000 Kavlico Carbureted Fuel / Fluid Pressure Sensor ? 15 PSI
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101716-000 Kavlico Fuel Injected Fuel / Coolant/Fluid Pressure
Sensor ? 50 PSI
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101693-000 Kavlico Oil Pressure Sensor ? 150 PSI

https://www.dynonavionics.com/includes/guides/Addendum_Kavlico_Sensors-Rev_C.pdf

From Dynon the Oil/Fluid Pressure Sender - Kavlico, 1/8-27 NPT, 150 psi is $85

Don't know if this helps at all.
 
RV10Pilot said:
As of July, 2012, Dynon Avionics supplies the following Kavlico fluid pressure sensors for
monitoring oil pressure, fuel pressure, and coolant pressure:
snipped
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101690-000 Kavlico Carbureted Fuel / Fluid Pressure Sensor – 15 PSI
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101716-000 Kavlico Fuel Injected Fuel / Coolant/Fluid Pressure
Sensor – 50 PSI
 Dynon Avionics P/N 101693-000 Kavlico Oil Pressure Sensor – 150 PSI

snipped

From Dynon the Oil/Fluid Pressure Sender - Kavlico, 1/8-27 NPT, 150 psi is $85

Don't know if this helps at all.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that helps, as it shows that Dynon made Kavlico senders work. The 0-5 PSI is irrelevant to RV builders. The 0-15 PSI, would, I think, be more accurate for those with engines with carburetors. That said, GRT has you enter codes so that the EIS knows what pressure or temperature range sender is being attached. Their standard senders are 2 bar [0-30 PSI], 5 bar [0-80 PSI] and 10 bar [0-150 PSI] I strongly suspect that there are other codes which would allow the use of the 0-15 PSI and )-50 PSI senders. You would have to call GRT tech support to verify that.
Those are Dynon part numbers, which is helpful to order the senders from Dynon. Could you check one of your Kavlico senders for a part number? The Kavlico P/N would look like P405x-A-E-4-[A or C].

Upon closer examination of the P4056 data sheet, I learn that the Kavlico sending units are 3 wire [5 volts in, modified voltage out, and ground] units, so can not be used as drop in replacements. :( That said, the HS-SS-01 GRT sender is also a 3 wire [albeit 12 volt] sensor. I'd have to call GRT tech support on Monday to find out if they have the capability to use these senders on the auxiliary sensor input circuits.

Charlie
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Charlie! That gives me something to work with for an upgrade.

Failure mode always the same. Cruise OP becomes 99psi. Per the GRT guide that's a bad sender. Actual cruise OP is 77psi. Grounding is extra case ground to the main forest of tabs. It shows accurate pressure at startup still. It is on a manifold on the firewall vertically threads down sender terminals on top, the vent on top is clear and free of blockage. 10 bar 360-004. Easy replacement, just a pain having a recurring short 2 year lifespan twice now.

Always checked with a mechanical guage tied in for a ground run, temporarily replacing the sender to make sure it isn't the engine.
 
Last edited:
Before anyone spends money on new senders here is a quick and easy way to see if it's a ground continuity issue. First using Scotch-Brite or similar clean an area on the hex section of your VDO sending unit. Strip a piece of wire so that you have half an inch of bare copper wire exposed. Using a mini hose clamp, temporarily clamp the bare section of the wire to the cleaned area of the sending unit. Run the other end of your new ground wire either to your Forest of tabs ground or directly to the EIS unit. If the problem goes away, you know it's not the internals of the sending unit. It's a mechanical ground issue. If this doesn't improve it, well you need new sending unit anyway.

Charlie
 
chaskuss said:
Before anyone spends money on new senders here is a quick and easy way to see if it's a ground continuity issue. First using Scotch-Brite or similar clean an area on the hex section of your VDO sending unit. Strip a piece of wire so that you have half an inch of bare copper wire exposed. Using a mini hose clamp, temporarily clamp the bare section of the wire to the cleaned area of the sending unit. Run the other end of your new ground wire either to your Forest of tabs ground or directly to the EIS unit. If the problem goes away, you know it's not the internals of the sending unit. It's a mechanical ground issue. If this doesn't improve it, well you need new sending unit anyway.

Charlie
Click to expand...

In my case it is a mechanical failure on the sender...plenty of oil leaking out the back where the terminal is.
 
We were chasing oil pressure fluctuations recently. An old timer on the field gave us a gauge setup to temporarily attach direct to the oil pressure fitting. We were able to read actual oil pressure on the gauge to verify what the sender was reading. That allowed us to determine a bad ground causing the problem. Also, we we?re using a VDO.
 
Maxrate said:
We were chasing oil pressure fluctuations recently. An old timer on the field gave us a gauge setup to temporarily attach direct to the oil pressure fitting. We were able to read actual oil pressure on the gauge to verify what the sender was reading. That allowed us to determine a bad ground causing the problem. Also, we we?re using a VDO.
Click to expand...

Mark,
Are you using the one wire VDO senders as supplied by Grand Rapids? Or are you using 2 wire VDO senders which provide a dedicated ground wire?

Charlie
 
Is there any reason to believe that putting compressed air (rather than oil) on the sender in order to verify the calibration curve would cause any problems?
 
Kooshball said:
Is there any reason to believe that putting compressed air (rather than oil) on the sender in order to verify the calibration curve would cause any problems?
Click to expand...

Compressed air works just fine, as does nitrogen. Just be very careful in terms of pressure regulation as one does not want to expose the sender to over-pressure situations or large/rapid pressure transients.
 
moosepileit said:
Is there a Kavlico option with A GRT EIS?
snipped.
Click to expand...

Rich, GRT does not offer Kavlico transducers as an option at this point in time. However I got off the phone with Eric at GRT earlier this morning. I explained to him the basic parameters of the Kavlico P4056 series transducers. He assured me that they can be made to function using the six auxiliary inputs that the EIS 4000 + 6000 give you. It's a simple matter of inputting the correct offset in the software so that the transducers will be accurate. I've sent him my serial number and software version and the datasheet for the Kavlico transducers that I would be interested in using. Once he reviews the information he will contact me and give me the offset that I need. Anyone else wanting to use the sensors would have to pick the exact sensor they want to use and then contact GRT support. You'll need to supply the exact Kavlico sensor info, your serial number and the software version that your unit has. It all makes a difference.

Charlie
 
chaskuss said:
Rich, GRT does not offer Kavlico transducers as an option at this point in time. However I got off the phone with Eric at GRT earlier this morning. I explained to him the basic parameters of the Kavlico P4056 series transducers. He assured me that they can be made to function using the six auxiliary inputs that the EIS 4000 + 6000 give you. It's a simple matter of inputting the correct offset in the software so that the transducers will be accurate. I've sent him my serial number and software version and the datasheet for the Kavlico transducers that I would be interested in using. Once he reviews the information he will contact me and give me the offset that I need. Anyone else wanting to use the sensors would have to pick the exact sensor they want to use and then contact GRT support. You'll need to supply the exact Kavlico sensor info, your serial number and the software version that your unit has. It all makes a difference.

Charlie
Click to expand...

You positive about this? When I set up my EIS system, I was able to create custom offsets/configs for every sender except the Oil pressure. The EIS did not allow custom config for the oil pressure input. Have no idea why. Possibly they changed it.

I did a kavlico for the fuel pressure. Takes a bit of math, but very doable. I also did a custom setup for the MAP to use a cheaper, GM sensor.

Larry
 
Last edited:
lr172 said:
You positive about this? When I set up my EIS system, I was able to create custom offsets/configs for every sender except the Oil pressure. The EIS did not allow custom config for the oil pressure input. Have no idea why. Possibly they changed it.

I did a kavlico for the fuel pressure. Takes a bit of math, but very doable. I also did a custom setup for the MAP to use a cheaper, GM sensor.

Larry
Click to expand...

Larry I think you and I simply have different interpretations of what was being asked. I viewed his question to mean did GRT offer to sell the EIS unit with the Kavlico senders. They do not. However I learned from speaking with Eric and as you found out that with the correct offset, the Kavlico senders will work. That's the bottom line that I reported.

I'd like to know more about the offset you used and the part number used regarding the GM MAP sensor.
Charlie
 
I heard back from Erik at GRT this afternoon

Just an FYI for those interested in this thread. I spoke to Eric at GRT on the phone yesterday morning. I explained that I was interested in using the Kavlico P4056 sending units. I then emailed him the data sheets for the sending units I was interested in using. He got back to me this afternoon with the scale and offset numbers for these sending units. Information is as follows:

0-100 PSI Sender. Scale. 65. Offset. 23. ( used for fuel injection fuel pressure sender)

0-150 PSI Sender. Scale. 78. Offset. 37. ( used for oil pressure)

Bear in mind that these data points are for my EIS, which has the version V software in it. If your EIS unit has either version S or version J software you're going to have to contact Eric to get the proper information for your unit.

Charlie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top