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Overhauling Mikey?s Panel

Louise Hose

Well Known Member
N164MS (a.k.a., 1 RV-6 for Mike Seager or “Mikey”) gestated as the fourth RV-6 kit out of Van’s factory and made his first flight with his Papa Mike at the controls in Spring 1990. When Mike moved onto factory-built planes for his transition training business a couple years later, the second owner made a major overhaul. Mikey became a solid IFR airplane with a brand new engine, C/S prop, and lots of new avionics. That was December 1992 and Mike had put >750 hours on the plane.
P1000865.JPG

Mikey's panel in 2005

When I became the Mikey’s fifth owner in summer 2005, I knew I had purchased a very well-build airframe, a solid engine, an awfully worn interior, and a panel/gyro/dyno system on its last legs. I didn’t have the money or resources to address those issues except on an “as needed”, patchwork basis for the last two-plus years. As the vacuum, T&B, and Nav radio failed, I upgraded and replaced the instruments. Each installation was frustrated by the rat’s nest of wires that had accumulated over the 17 years and my own contributions to the mess. Added into the clutter were a completely defunct Loran and an ADF that can only be properly read in an RV if it’s flown inverted. The stars finally aligned for the upgrade this fall.
IMG_1339.jpg

Mikey's panel at the start of the weekend


It has been my great fortune to have Paul Dye come into my life about the same time as I gathered the necessary funds for the project. Paul and I discussed and planned the project over the summer and I started ordering the necessary equipment this fall. By Thanksgiving, Paul’s guest bed was covered with a Dynon 180, TruTrak ADI Pilot II, blank panel sheet, z-channel, Paul’s old Icom 200 comm radio, switches, breakers, and assorted project supplies. I had only planned to add the Dynon EFIS/EMS, but Paul donated the second radio and urged that we replace my current ADI with the ADI Pilot II. Since he now has a minority interest in the plane, the autopilot will go in.

We picked the Thanksgiving weekend to move Mikey down to Texas from Virginia. A storm front delayed the flight to Friday, but Mikey and I arrived at Paul’s hanger south of Houston about 2 pm (less than 6.5 hours flight time from D.C. to Houston!). Work began immediately as the hanger was organized and planes shuffled around.
IMG_1338.jpg

Ironflight is ready for action

The serious work happened later in the weekend. The canopy and cowling came off, the tail was propped up, seats removed, baggage area backwall removed, engine sensors stripped out, the vertical control panel removed, and all of the panel instruments (including control cables) removed. By the end of the long weekend, we had the new engine sensors installed, the outer panel shape cut, the bow and z–channel subpanel drilled and cleco-ed, the Bell tailwheel installed, all pertinent wiring labeled, and some holes drilled on the sub-panel.
IMG_1343.jpg

Mikey's panel later in the weekend

As forum readers might guess, Paul is the best teacher/mentor that I’ve ever worked with and he has ensured that I am learning every step of the process. What fun this building stuff can be with the right partner! I had to fly off for business in Chicago and have now returned to D.C. Paul will continue working on the project during my absence but promises that there will still be plenty to do when I return for the Christmas holidays. I sure wish I could be there sooner and participate in every step. But, getting the panel DONE is the first priority; teaching and learning new skills is an important, but secondary, goal.
 
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Update....Already!

Just a few pictures to show the progress in two nights work. First, yes, Louise is going to be doing a piece of every task:

IMG_1965.jpg


And here is how it looked yesterday....

IMG_1983.jpg


OK, back to the shop. Tonight I'm cutting out those little "fiddly bits" around instrument knobs, and then I have to reinforce the radio rack hole and start fitting the racks. Man, it's GREAT to be building again!:D

(We'll keep updating this thread as the work progresses)

Paul
 
The majority partner makes those decisions

So, what is with the Dynon stuff??? I thought you were a GRT kinda guy???

Paul is a minority partner and I made the Dynon decision as the best choice for Mikey and our uses of him. Paul may be the expert on the panel issues, but I'm the PIC when it comes to N164MS.
 
Way to go Louise! Let 'em know who's boss!

By the way, Ann & I had lunch with Paul today. We went down to sign off Rusty Crawford's -7A.
 
So, what is with the Dynon stuff??? I thought you were a GRT kinda guy???

Aside from it being Louise's decision....it's always fun to try out different stuff - especially when it's with someone else's money! :D

Oh, wait.....:confused:

Paul
 
You guys........

........are a real inspiration for so many of us!! Great work, neat writeup.
The cheering session is ongoing:D

Great!
 
My Caption!

I think a caption contest for this picture is in order.... there seems to be some statement about to come from Paul....

I get to go first, the tune by 10CC: "The Things We Do for Love":p:p
"What do you mean, the instructions don't include English?"
 
"Few fans know Pete Townsend is an avid experimental aviator. Here he is shown installing a guitar amp in his aircraft"
 
Man, you go to the airport to work for a few hours, and all heck breaks loose!:p Make fun of me all you want, but don't Dis the diver's hat - it reminds of my past and I get so few opportunities to wear it down her in swelter land....:rolleyes: (At least my image is taking your attention of the mangled sub-panel we found when we took the plane apart....got a little patching and riveting to do!)

Anyway, here's today's progress picture - the panel fits!
IMG_1989.jpg


Now I have it back at home and I can start riveting the bow, Dynon mounts, sub panel, and radio rack angles. I should ave that all done tonight, and be ready to get the panel ready for paint.

Paul
 
Paul (or anyone else)-
What's the best way to line up all of those radio trays? I'm just using a GTX-320A transponder and Icom A210 and found that you can't just align the dimples or the faces of the trays. If you do, the bezels of the instruments won't line up. Instead, I put one tray in at a time and tried to align it as best I could before drilling the side angles for screws holding the tray to the angles. Is there a better, more accurate way?
 
Steve, that is the way I did it----------the second time.

Like you, I also discovered that lining up the tray ends, as rational as that sounds, is not the way to go.

Luckily I has a lot of alum angle stock.
 
Lining up trays

Take your stack of radios, and put them in their trays. Now stack them up in the order you want them on your workbench. Line the faces up exactly how you want them to be in the panel. Now take a sharpie and a straightedge and draw a vertical line on each side of the stack to make a reference line on each tray.

For temporary alignment while working in the panel, wrap a piece of strapping tape around the whole stack to hold it together (and in alignment) while you mark the angles on your panel for the holes.

Perfect radio stack, every time!:D

Paul
 
IMG_1343.jpg

Having seen that wire tangle more times than I would like to remember, it really makes my weekend to see all those wires DIE DIE DIE!

It is remarkable how the new panel has much more useful stuff but space to spare, compared to the old. Not that there is anything wrong with an ADF that only works inverted :) .
 
The power of glass

Having seen that wire tangle more times than I would like to remember, it really makes my weekend to see all those wires DIE DIE DIE!

It is remarkable how the new panel has much more useful stuff but space to spare, compared to the old. Not that there is anything wrong with an ADF that only works inverted :) .

The D-180 replaces about nine of the old steam gauges and makes another five or so secondary/redundant. Flying's going to be pretty different. So will working behind the panel!
 
I see how you are Louise....you just HAD to go ahead and get a real life rocket scientist to help...and one from Minnesota at that - here I thought we made those harnesses pretty simple! :)

BTW, that thing will look much better with you in the seat.

Cheers,
Stein.

PS - I'm sure Paul is missing our single digit temps, 12" of snow and howling wind right about now :)
 
Maybe a small pun intended...after all he's dressed like a Minnesotan in Summer for those pictures :)

It's just that Paul's plane has been seen cavorting around these parts, and I want him to come work for me. But alas, I'm already pay him too much (my tax $$'s) to leave his current job! ;) I can't possibly figure out what would be the fun of messing around with spaceships and such.....maybe I'm just a wee bit jealous!

Cheers,
Stein
 
Different PUN

I meant this kind of pun: ;)

The American Heritage[SIZE=-1]?[/SIZE] Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. [SIZE=-1]2000.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]digit[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]SYLLABICATION:[/SIZE]dig?it [SIZE=-1]PRONUNCIATION:[/SIZE] d
ibreve.gif
j
prime.gif
ibreve.gif
t [SIZE=-1]NOUN:[/SIZE]1a. A human finger or toe. b. A corresponding part in other vertebrates.

Sorry! :eek: Couldn't resist!
 
I meant this kind of pun: ;)

The American Heritage[SIZE=-1]?[/SIZE] Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. [SIZE=-1]2000.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+2]digit[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]SYLLABICATION:[/SIZE]dig?it [SIZE=-1]PRONUNCIATION:[/SIZE] d
ibreve.gif
j
prime.gif
ibreve.gif
t [SIZE=-1]NOUN:[/SIZE]1a. A human finger or toe. b. A corresponding part in other vertebrates.

Sorry! :eek: Couldn't resist!

Just goes to show you how dense I am sometimes.....I suppose with my advanced level of wit, you wonder how someone so brilliant (me) ended up "digitized"! :)
 
Panel Looking Great

Louise

If you don't hurry home Paul is going to knock that panel out and start flying before ya get back. You can tell he has missed building and is getting all the fun.

The warm weather might slow him down this weekend though. What a difference from Thanksgiving weekend to this weekend. He probably is wearing shorts this weekend.


You guys are going to have a new plane when that panel is done. COOL!
 
Ready for disassembly and paint....

Well, everything fits, holes have been properly adjusted, stiffeners and other stuff have been riveted on - time to take it apart and prep for paint!

Then I can go out to the airport and do a little flying...er, work on Mikey's airframe!:rolleyes:

IMG_2000.jpg
 
You're right!

Louise

If you don't hurry home Paul is going to knock that panel out and start flying before ya get back. You can tell he has missed building and is getting all the fun.

I fear you are right! But, after several years of frustration with the panel, I'm not trying to hold him back. (I almost didn't go to the Big Bend Ranch SP fly-in and meet Paul last February because my only comm radio wasn't transmitting. Now that would have been...err, prevented....a life-changing event!)

I beginning to think that RV-3 is closer in our future than I had originally thought!

Louise
 
rv-10

Nah.... Just go for the 10 and take yall's time. That way you can do stuff when your in town and it will keep Paul's building "jones" in check.

That panel is looking good. Even has the secret switch guard. I knew he would do that. Bet you can't wait to fly behind it.
 
I have a question on the inclusion of the mechanical CDI. Won't the Dynon's display this info?

Good Luck,
Tom RV-7A Flying
 
Yes they will but

Mainly its preference.

There is a lot going on on the EFIS display and personally I prefer the dedicated white needles on the black background of the mech CDI....The other thing is you can also display on the Dynon as a backup to the CDI.

As a side note, if you use a 430(W) you can only shoot an ILS or LNAV approach if you wire the ARINC 429 lines thru the Dynon expander box.

You can wire the serial connection from the 430 direct to the Dynon but the 430 will not rescale the output on the serial connection which is necessary to do a precision approach.

Frank
 
If ya' got it....

I have a question on the inclusion of the mechanical CDI. Won't the Dynon's display this info?

Good Luck,
Tom RV-7A Flying

I probably would have only gone with the Dynons if I didn't already have a pretty new (~1 year old) mechanical display. Since I already had it, it's going in and I'll see which I end up using.
 
Today's progress

Why do I feel like I'm living an Episode of American Chopper?:rolleyes:

yesterday I finished mocking everything up, cleaning out holes, making sure screw holes lined up with their respective instruments. That took pretty much the whole evening - then it was disassembly for cleaning and paint. this evening, the paint was dry and hard, so it was time for "final" assembly (yeah, like I believe that....). Everything fit, although (as is typical), I had changed one or two things in the design since I placed my big Stein order for breakers and switches, so I'll have to give them a call in the morning for a couple of quick things to fill a hole or two. But overall, I think it's coming along nicely.

Panels look so strange before they get their labels and placards....

IMG_2020.jpg


Oh, and Louise? It is now officially too late to make any layout changes.....:D
 
So, Paul, is that red, green, and blue unit upper left another of your custom annunciator setups??
 
Yup!

So, Paul, is that red, green, and blue unit upper left another of your custom annunciator setups??

I found a supply of ready-made square LED lights that are perfect for annunciators - set up for 12 volts already. All I really had to make was the bezel. Unfortunately, they were in a surplus bin at a place I know, so I can't tell you where to get them, or even who makes them. I admit that I bought a bunch....for "future projects"....
 
Like this one?

I found a supply of ready-made square LED lights that are perfect for annunciators - set up for 12 volts already. All I really had to make was the bezel. Unfortunately, they were in a surplus bin at a place I know, so I can't tell you where to get them, or even who makes them. I admit that I bought a bunch....for "future projects"....

Paul... is it like this one? 10 by 14 mm lens size...

At 89 cents, it's at surplus prices already...:)

16971.jpg


Sold here in different colors...

https://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=16971+LE

gil A
 
That's it Gil - thanks for doing the research that I was too lazy to do....bet they suddenly have a run on them!

A sheet of clear labels in your ink-jet printer and an 8 pixel font works great BTW...

Paul
 
Hi Louise:

Be sure to make Paul run the serial output of the SL-30 to the Dynon. You're going to LOVE the Dynons. Make sure you have the latest 4.0 firmwares. It's awesome.
 
Hi Louise:

Be sure to make Paul run the serial output of the SL-30 to the Dynon. You're going to LOVE the Dynons. Make sure you have the latest 4.0 firmwares. It's awesome.

That's absolutely in the plans Jamie! I start wiring tonight - that's the part I really enjoy. One of the nice things about the SL-30 is that the dedicated indicator uses one set of connections, and the serial out goes to the Dynons - it just makes things really simple. I like that on my GRT's as well - so unlike the old avionics days.

Serial links rule!

Paul
 
Pick up serial in from a Garmin handheld GPS and you can load nav and com freqs right into standby (or active) for whatever station is active in the gps or nearest your position... but you probably already knew that too.
 
legend Lights

Regarding legend lights, if that is what was pictured in the previous post. I find that they will get my attention just fine in darker conditions, but in direct sunlight no way. I am experimenting with removal of the "grain of wheat" bulbs, drilling out the back end, and inserting a very bright LED imbedded in silicone. I cannot report results yet as I am waiting for my LED order to come in. Rather than solder my own resistors, I found some prewired LEDs that are 12 V ready. They are coming from Hong Kong, I can report how they work out if there is interest. Has anyone else done this?

Randy C
RV7A Sube STI
 
Randy,

I had bought some anunciator lights from Stein, and I also found somewhere else LED replacements in the form of a bulb, with a resistor built in. Same fitting/cap. Bright and work very well. No need to futz around with silicone if you can locate the right LED eplacement bulb.

Allan
 
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Today's Panel Fitting

Mikey tried on his new panel today, and I think it fits him well!

IMG_2022.jpg


And a straight-on shot:
IMG_2023.jpg


And he's getting a few patches on old holes, plus a new hole or two on the sub-panel. (Those things can look like Swiss Cheese after a few panel iterations!)
IMG_2028.jpg


Not bad for a week's worth of work, huh? Now the panel is back on the bench, and ready for wiring. Hopefully, that should go quickly - this one is pretty simple!;)

On annunciators and lights - there are actually quite a few cool alternatives - the problem is finding them, as they are not sold for consumer use, and you have to know how to find them - or stumble on them in a surplus place! I find that the ones we're using on Louise's panel are plenty bright - remember that they are rarely in direct sun, as they are tucked up high under the glare shield. That has been my experience in the Val as well.

Paul
 
I found a supply of ready-made square LED lights that are perfect for annunciators - set up for 12 volts already. All I really had to make was the bezel. Unfortunately, they were in a surplus bin at a place I know, so I can't tell you where to get them, or even who makes them. I admit that I bought a bunch....for "future projects"....

Hi Paul,

What systems did you make the annunciators for? Are two for the dynon alerts?
 
Hi Paul,

What systems did you make the annunciators for? Are two for the dynon alerts?


D180 Alert (Master Alarm)
Oil Pressure (driven by a switch - for if everything else is dead!)
Fuel Pump On
Landing Light On
Taxi Light On

My philosophy is a couple warnings and then some "Hey Dumbie" lights to tell you that you've left stuff on....

Paul
 
Why no map box?

Very cool refit, Paul. You are a craftsman.

So why no map box? The area over on the right looks ripe for one.
 
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