I'm probably going to buy an RV 8 (06 build) with an "older" panel with steam gauges & older comm/nav/transponder .. question: given the possibilities out there, what is approximate cost to replace the "steam gauge" panel & associated equipment with a modern glass panel and associated comm/nav/transponder? Not in need of "high end" options .. just effective glass panels with an engine analyzer .. your comments much appreciated .. thanks
Van's Air Force
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Glass panel? your comments sought ..
- Thread starter USAFhokie
- Start date
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Too many variables
Your question is really open ended because there are so many variables. I suggest you get in touch with Steinair and have them provide some guidance. They can build you a plug and play panel system and even do the install for you if you could get the plane there.
I got distracted and forgot to mention my good friends at AFS/Dynon. Rob Hickman and crew can also set you up with a great plug and play Dynon panel that will not likely break the bank. I personally have AFS 5500T's in my new 7.
I'll bet your range of pricing could be from $15,000 to $40,000.
Your question is really open ended because there are so many variables. I suggest you get in touch with Steinair and have them provide some guidance. They can build you a plug and play panel system and even do the install for you if you could get the plane there.
I got distracted and forgot to mention my good friends at AFS/Dynon. Rob Hickman and crew can also set you up with a great plug and play Dynon panel that will not likely break the bank. I personally have AFS 5500T's in my new 7.
I'll bet your range of pricing could be from $15,000 to $40,000.
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Ed_Wischmeyer
Well Known Member
If I recall correctly, I've heard Stein give ballpark quotes of $20K VFR, $40K IFR.
But for a number of years, I flew a gorgeous RV-8 with steam gauges but with a small panel-mount GPS and an R-9A that was all glass. My question is, why do you want to change?
Steam gauges are more readable than glass, primarily because they are larger. The one exception is the attitude display on glass is bigger, which helps in roll, but the pitch scale is not necessarily larger. Round dials are as readable or more readable than tapes, the biggest advantage is that round dials are much easier to read at a glance.
When I fly glass in the -9A (still have it), the autopilot keeps the plane going in the right direction so I have time to fuss with all the button pushes of the glass. In the -8, because it had more sport plane handling, it took a lot more attention to keep it precisely on heading and altitude. Flying with an autopilot in a -8 seems to me like having a chauffeur drive you around in your Porsche.
Another factor is whether your -8 has a cutout in the back of the forward baggage compartment to access the back of the instrument panel. I do not know how big a project it is to add that after the fact, but that can be a big deal for accessibility. Then again, if your glass cockpit has a 10" screen or two, removing that screen solves lots of accessibility problems, especially if you have a generous service loop.
Then there's the matter of workload. As mentioned above, in the -8 I spent time flying the plane but in the -9, the autopilot gave me time to fuss with the glass (and most of my flying in the -9 is either IFR or VFR using IFR procedures.) I've found it quite challenging to hand fly the -9 and attempt to use the glass in the same way that I fly it with the autopilot.
As for aesthetics, that's certainly a personal choice. The -9A seems a good fit for glass, two screens plus the GPS navigator. The character of the -8 seemed more appropriate for steam gauges, the fighter aura, all that.
The one true advantage of glass is hazard avoidance, whether that hazard is traffic, weather, airspace, or terrain. Glass does that, steam gauges do not. My -8 had an older portable GPS panel mounted, so I experimented with my older iPad. It was a minor hassle putting the iPad on my knee as it would quickly overheat in the sun, even if it was turned off. What I did was to turn it off and put it beside the seat vertically when I wasn't using it. (When I had the high wing Cessna, the iPad was much more useful).
Bottom line -- if you've got a nice steam gauge panel, enjoy it, and figure out a strategy for a hazard avoidance, whether tablet or small panel mount GPS.
Ed
But for a number of years, I flew a gorgeous RV-8 with steam gauges but with a small panel-mount GPS and an R-9A that was all glass. My question is, why do you want to change?
Steam gauges are more readable than glass, primarily because they are larger. The one exception is the attitude display on glass is bigger, which helps in roll, but the pitch scale is not necessarily larger. Round dials are as readable or more readable than tapes, the biggest advantage is that round dials are much easier to read at a glance.
When I fly glass in the -9A (still have it), the autopilot keeps the plane going in the right direction so I have time to fuss with all the button pushes of the glass. In the -8, because it had more sport plane handling, it took a lot more attention to keep it precisely on heading and altitude. Flying with an autopilot in a -8 seems to me like having a chauffeur drive you around in your Porsche.
Another factor is whether your -8 has a cutout in the back of the forward baggage compartment to access the back of the instrument panel. I do not know how big a project it is to add that after the fact, but that can be a big deal for accessibility. Then again, if your glass cockpit has a 10" screen or two, removing that screen solves lots of accessibility problems, especially if you have a generous service loop.
Then there's the matter of workload. As mentioned above, in the -8 I spent time flying the plane but in the -9, the autopilot gave me time to fuss with the glass (and most of my flying in the -9 is either IFR or VFR using IFR procedures.) I've found it quite challenging to hand fly the -9 and attempt to use the glass in the same way that I fly it with the autopilot.
As for aesthetics, that's certainly a personal choice. The -9A seems a good fit for glass, two screens plus the GPS navigator. The character of the -8 seemed more appropriate for steam gauges, the fighter aura, all that.
The one true advantage of glass is hazard avoidance, whether that hazard is traffic, weather, airspace, or terrain. Glass does that, steam gauges do not. My -8 had an older portable GPS panel mounted, so I experimented with my older iPad. It was a minor hassle putting the iPad on my knee as it would quickly overheat in the sun, even if it was turned off. What I did was to turn it off and put it beside the seat vertically when I wasn't using it. (When I had the high wing Cessna, the iPad was much more useful).
Bottom line -- if you've got a nice steam gauge panel, enjoy it, and figure out a strategy for a hazard avoidance, whether tablet or small panel mount GPS.
Ed
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Be patient
If you get in a hurry, you will waste money. If you are doing the majority of the work, You can do a MGL or GRT panel for under 8K. Dynon, AFS and Garmin will cost you more, as will some more advanced features.
GRT has several all in one box options that keep some of the installation complexities down. Most websites have a configuration page that will help calculate costs. Its a good academic exercise to do and see where you stand.
Used is the way to go. Savings can be up to 50% if you are patient and dont fall in love with a certain sale.
Been here before. Good luck.
If you get in a hurry, you will waste money. If you are doing the majority of the work, You can do a MGL or GRT panel for under 8K. Dynon, AFS and Garmin will cost you more, as will some more advanced features.
GRT has several all in one box options that keep some of the installation complexities down. Most websites have a configuration page that will help calculate costs. Its a good academic exercise to do and see where you stand.
Used is the way to go. Savings can be up to 50% if you are patient and dont fall in love with a certain sale.
Been here before. Good luck.
Boyd Birchler
Well Known Member
2 G3X screens with integrated autopilot, adding 2nd comm (Icom A220),Echo ADSb with skyfix, Reusing: Garmin 430 WAAS,garmin 327 TPX,Garmin 340 audio panel and Dynon D10a with internal battery.
Once I sell some of the removed stuff I expect to have $14,000 to $15,000 net. This is by doing the work myself. Problem is I waited quite a while
(about 5 months) for the fast stack wiring and have had other obligations that slowed my progress: it is going to take me 10 months of down time....
Although I'm an A&P with IA it takes me a while to put things together (very meticulous work if you don't want anything to smoke on first fire up...). Getting wires pulled to the back necessitated pulling the baggage floor as well as the seat pans. Baggage floor was riveted in and was very awkward to remove. Getting wires to the rear and trough the wings to new LED lights and heated pitot took considerably more time than I would have imagined.
It has been a bigger job than I would have thought by a factor of 4; but I can see the finnish line coming.
Once I sell some of the removed stuff I expect to have $14,000 to $15,000 net. This is by doing the work myself. Problem is I waited quite a while
(about 5 months) for the fast stack wiring and have had other obligations that slowed my progress: it is going to take me 10 months of down time....
Although I'm an A&P with IA it takes me a while to put things together (very meticulous work if you don't want anything to smoke on first fire up...). Getting wires pulled to the back necessitated pulling the baggage floor as well as the seat pans. Baggage floor was riveted in and was very awkward to remove. Getting wires to the rear and trough the wings to new LED lights and heated pitot took considerably more time than I would have imagined.
It has been a bigger job than I would have thought by a factor of 4; but I can see the finnish line coming.
MGRVAwesome
Active Member
I got myself a run of the mill glass panel just to get flying. Bought myself a G3X legacy unit and GTX-327 second hand on Van's Airforce. The rest I bought new with full engine monitoring. The entire thing cost me $6250. I then installed an Ipad mini with Garmin pilot next to the GDU-370 for navigation. Works like a charm. Will try and load a pic here.
GDU-370 - $1300
GTX-327 - $450
GTR-200 - $1200
LRU kit - $3300
Rgds, Martin
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HGkVTKaiZP9KXXxD7
GDU-370 - $1300
GTX-327 - $450
GTR-200 - $1200
LRU kit - $3300
Rgds, Martin
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HGkVTKaiZP9KXXxD7
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My -8 has dual AFS 3500S screens. I really like the IFR nav and autopilot connectivity, and the dedicated engine screen, but admit that for much of my VFR flying I mainly use an 8" tablet with a RAM mount and the back-up AS and ALT gauges. 
As a CFI, I find that most VFR pilots spend WAY too much time fussing with the EFIS/EMS and not nearly enough looking outside. These days for VFR flight reviews I usually tell the pilot to turn the GPS(s) off. (Some guys have 3 or 4!) Pilotage in the local area can be fun!
Andy
As a CFI, I find that most VFR pilots spend WAY too much time fussing with the EFIS/EMS and not nearly enough looking outside. These days for VFR flight reviews I usually tell the pilot to turn the GPS(s) off.
(Some guys have 3 or 4!) Pilotage in the local area can be fun!Andy
meloosifah
Well Known Member
Dynon has a pretty slick panel price estimator on their website. I found it to be pretty accurate for a DIY install. The prices I received for shop built panels were generally double the cost of equipment. Garmin is a little higher and GRT is a little lower in price.
Used will save you 10-60%, depending no on how many generations back you are willing to go. A few months ago there was a nice 2-generation old panel listed here, complete, for 25 cents on the dollar.
Used will save you 10-60%, depending no on how many generations back you are willing to go. A few months ago there was a nice 2-generation old panel listed here, complete, for 25 cents on the dollar.
Robert Sailor
Well Known Member
AFS is a great company.
Cheapest thing about flying
The pilot is the cheapest thing about flying.
There are too many variables and options without needing to do a LOT of research. Define the mission requirements is step one.
IMHO, this setup would be in the $10,000 to $12,000 range plus whatever radios you would want and includes two axis autopilot. One still needs radios with this setup.
This thread talks about the new features.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=173476&highlight=GAD
This is just one opinion on upgrading an older plane to newer technology. I have replaced my vacuum instruments with two G5s plus GMU11 two years ago. I have the GAD13 on order. I would consider doing this is to my almost 22-year old RV-6 if engine monitor had not been upgraded 8-years ago. Support for my approach certified GPS is going away this year and I may want to do something like this with a new navigator change. Still waiting for Installation Manual to be released for the GNC355 as it is the perfect size to replace my old unit.
The pilot is the cheapest thing about flying.
There are too many variables and options without needing to do a LOT of research. Define the mission requirements is step one.
IMHO, this setup would be in the $10,000 to $12,000 range plus whatever radios you would want and includes two axis autopilot. One still needs radios with this setup.
This thread talks about the new features.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=173476&highlight=GAD
This is just one opinion on upgrading an older plane to newer technology. I have replaced my vacuum instruments with two G5s plus GMU11 two years ago. I have the GAD13 on order. I would consider doing this is to my almost 22-year old RV-6 if engine monitor had not been upgraded 8-years ago. Support for my approach certified GPS is going away this year and I may want to do something like this with a new navigator change. Still waiting for Installation Manual to be released for the GNC355 as it is the perfect size to replace my old unit.
If you are looking for a good bang for your buck...Not flying yet but I am going down the same road as Martin
GDU 370 (used)
GTX 33 (mode S) (used)
Still looking for a 8,33 kHz Radio. Otherwise I would also take the GTR200.
A Slightly Different Approach...
If you're looking at a strictly VFR configuration, we're in the process of rolling out a new product that significantly cuts the cost of going glass. Our new FlightView system includes the flight and engine instruments plus VFR navigation and a bunch of other situational awareness tools. A complete package runs about $3500. That would include:
- display (iPad)
- display mount / cooler (our FlightDock)
- wireless knobs / buttons interface (our FlightBar)
- Flight Data Computer (GPS, AHRS, ADS-B In, system hub)
- Air Data Computer (airspeed, altitude, OAT, etc.)
- engine monitor (RPM, EGT, CHT, oil, fuel, etc.)
- basic engine probe set
Adding a second or third display requires only the additional iPads. The system integrates with popular COM radios, autopilots, and transponders.
Here's a shot of the interface:
If you're interested, send me a DM and I'll get you more information.
If you're looking at a strictly VFR configuration, we're in the process of rolling out a new product that significantly cuts the cost of going glass. Our new FlightView system includes the flight and engine instruments plus VFR navigation and a bunch of other situational awareness tools. A complete package runs about $3500. That would include:
- display (iPad)
- display mount / cooler (our FlightDock)
- wireless knobs / buttons interface (our FlightBar)
- Flight Data Computer (GPS, AHRS, ADS-B In, system hub)
- Air Data Computer (airspeed, altitude, OAT, etc.)
- engine monitor (RPM, EGT, CHT, oil, fuel, etc.)
- basic engine probe set
Adding a second or third display requires only the additional iPads. The system integrates with popular COM radios, autopilots, and transponders.
Here's a shot of the interface:
If you're interested, send me a DM and I'll get you more information.
