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@#%$& Bird Strike!

gvouga

Well Known Member
So there we were flying a six ship formation demo over Raleigh. We had just turned inbound on our target with smoke on and BOOM a red tailed hawk wanted in on the fun. The ******* obviously wasn't carded or he would have realized that in formation we try to stay on the OUTSIDE of the other planes!

So, I've got my shorts cleaned out, Will home safe, Momma reasonably calm, and the plane secure. Now it's time to start dealing with the logistics of plane recovery and FAA.

What happened -
Flying along fine then in a split second I see a flash of a hawk (CLEARLY) and then all **** broke loose. Stuff was flying around the cockpit pieces of plexi everywhere and LOUD wind. I pulled up and out and immediately started calling birdstrike as I was assessing the condition of the plane. Once I was stable I looked at Will (my young son along for the ride) who was freaking out, but didn't look too busted up. There was blood spattered on my arm and his face, but nothing that was too major looking. Checked my position looked for airports and realized Raleigh was the closest option. I actually considered for the briefest fraction of a second trying to make it to 5W5 (home base) or another GA friendly airport. Quickly decided that was stupid and made a straight line to the closest airport with a decent runway which was RDU. I saw the remaining 5 ship pass under us as we headed for RDU.

I couldn't hear squat in the headset with all the wind, but I yelled on our air to air freq that I'm stable and to let RDU tower know that I'm heading their way. I dialed in 121.5 and started transmitting Mayday and my intentions to land at RDU, but I couldn't hear ****. I realized later that I was transmitting on Radio #1 and not #2 where I dialed in Guard. So I guess I was just yelling at my flight on air-to-air. I got 7700 on the transponder at about 5mi from RDU. Figured I was on the wrong freq at about 3mi final. large chunks of plexi were jamming my left rudder a bit on landing, but it wasn't too bad. Landing was successful. Tower was telling at me to shut it down and get out on the runway and I was arguing that I could just taxi to the ramp. Then they informed me I was on fire and smoking. At which point I realized that my smoke system was still on and informed them of the source of the smoke. The fire guys said that they had orders to soak the plane until I called them off.

Damage -
The front windshield is about 75% gone. Bird parts are everywhere and
large chunks in the baggage compartment. Evidence of part of the bird
on the HS. I didn't see much damage besides the canopy and mess
inside. I really haven't looked too closely yet though.

Injuries -
Will has a few minor scrapes and cuts. A nice v cut on his cheek. I guess this was from plexi, but it could have been bird I guess. No stitches and full use of eyes thank God. I have a few scrapes and a nice puncture wound on my right forearm from a plexi spear. Overall we were very lucky.

The FAA will investigate this as an incident according to the RDU tower guy. I haven't heard from them yet (Monday?) Anything that I should or should not say to the FAA? I'm sure you have all heard the old saying aviation, "I'm with the FAA and here to help you." I think everything (paperwork, handling the emergency, etc.) was done legally to my knowledge, but I don't want to say or do something stupid to cause a problem.

Well, there you have it. I'll post more on this as the situation and pics as it develops. I'll also let you guys know how well AUA insurance and Global Aerospace handle the insurance claim since there has been some discussion lately about them.
 
Relieved you and your son are OK. Great job handling the situation. I heard about the incident from Bandit Lead yesterday at the Asheboro fly-in.
 
Wow

Neon,

So glad you and Will are safe. Hope Robin doesn't ground him because of this. (It was the bird's fault and he will never do it again!) You did a great job, as I expected.
 
Good to hear you and Will are OK! The part about the smoke is kinda funny.

One good thing, with the smoke on the tower saw you coming and knew you were in trouble.
 
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greg, glad you both are ok! you handled it well.

my thoughts on bird strikes. they are my biggest concern when out flying. they come out of no where in an instant and can take you out. i have had many close calls here in florida.

this may have put me over the top on painting my spinner 2/3 black to try and help deter these critters.

ps, had a declared emergency this week myself in my gyro. while departing a local airpark my left main came off because of an improper weld of the axil. i couldnt believe my eyes. after burning off most off the fuel i landed as slow as possible and stopped upright. i definitely was talking to my copilot and it is a single seater.

best to you and your son. :)
 
Greg, I live about 15 minutes from RDU, so if you need any help, let me know.

Also, I still have the first canopy (that I cracked during drilling). It is a tip-up. It may be possible to temporarily attach/bond/screw that canopy over top of your shattered canopy for a slow flight back to you home base. Let me know...
 
The FAA will investigate this as an incident according to the RDU tower guy. I haven't heard from them yet (Monday?) Anything that I should or should not say to the FAA? I'm sure you have all heard the old saying aviation, "I'm with the FAA and here to help you." I think everything (paperwork, handling the emergency, etc.) was done legally to my knowledge, but I don't want to say or do something stupid to cause a problem.

With my "incident" landing, the NTSB was first notified, and then the FAA followed up. It wasn't anything to worry about.

L.Adamson
 
Congratulations on getting all the parts back on the ground safely - most importantly you and your son! here's hoping for no lasting scars. I think your point about leaving the smoke on is interesting - it shows the total focus you had on flying the airplane to a safe landing - very good.

A bird strike in formation is one of the reasons I stay away from large formation flying in light planes ....it's hard to know where everything is going to go in an instant. What if it had been a flock? That is a risk that you have to evaluate for acceptance (or not) when committing to that kind of flight.

Good luck getting the airplane home and back together - I predict you'll have plenty of help in that part of the world once the call goes out.

Paul
 
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Nice bit of flying, just basic thinking under extreme stress can be a major task. Sounds like you handled it fine, safely on the ground is the proof.

I was wondering about safety glasses. I wear glasses, but I wonder if I should start carrying and using safety glasses, and perhaps provide those for my passengers as well.

I read a thread a while back about helmets, but that seems too much for me. Are people using safety glasses?

Again, nice job keeping your wits and getting down.
 
@^*#!!!!!!!

The question that I have is that why didn’t one of the formation pilots breakaway and fly as your escort and handle all the communications for you

You had a true emergency with a canopy failure, possible structural damage, and possible injuries on board. No one on your team (and I say that loosely) offered to conduct a fly-by inspection of your aircraft or at least have told you to turn smoke off. Your formation buds decided it was more important for the show to go on rather than assist a formation team member in distress.

Gads, I better stop typing now and go check my blood pressure.
 
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Some of the best sunglasses are also polycarbonate safety glasses.
Check an industrial safety catalog, some are made to fit over prescription eyewear, others have bifocals for us older guys.
Safety glasses are not the ugly old wire screen things we had to wear in shop class any more.
 
...
The FAA will investigate this as an incident according to the RDU tower guy. I haven't heard from them yet (Monday?) Anything that I should or should not say to the FAA? I'm sure you have all heard the old saying aviation, "I'm with the FAA and here to help you." I think everything (paperwork, handling the emergency, etc.) was done legally to my knowledge, but I don't want to say or do something stupid to cause a problem...

With my "incident" landing, the NTSB was first notified, and then the FAA followed up. It wasn't anything to worry about.

L.Adamson

Greg, to add to Larry's comment:

You did a very fine job in handling your emergency. I don’t believe you have anything to worry about. Your FAA investigation should be routine. Don’t forget to submit a NASA report. As part of a normal investigation, the inspector may ask you to produce documentation…again, this is all routine. Listen carefully to his or her questions and limit your response to only a direct answer to the question.

The FAA may ask to see the following:

Airframe and engine logbooks: Check for date of last condition inspection, and transponder/altimeter static checks.

Airworthiness certificate, registration, wt & bal, and equipment list.

Pilot certificates and medical

Pilot logbook book to show dates of last BFR, tailwheel endorsement, and takeoff and landing currency.

Again, all of the above is routine. If possible, when you first talk to the fed assigned to your investigation, ask him specifically what documents you are expected to produce. He will probably make copies of everything you provide him.

I’m sure your investigation will go well and the inspector will probably commend you on your outstanding airmanship.
 
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Look into Mederma for scar reduction.

I cannot see how the NTSB or FAA would make an issue out of anything relative to this emergency situation. You flew the plane and got you and your son safely on the ground. Just about everything else is secondary.

However, it would be interesting to know if you had the transponder on standby and if ATC saw it.

They may not have been in contact with you until well into the Class C area.

Were they tracking you and did they have to divert other aircraft?

A team member leading you in would have been the wise thing to do.
 
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Greg, to add to Larry's comment:

You did a very fine job in handling your emergency. I don?t believe you have anything to worry about. Your FAA investigation should be routine. Don?t forget to submit a NASA report. As part of a normal investigation, the inspector will ask questions and also ask you to produce documentation?again, this is all routine. Listen carefully to his or her questions and limit your response to only a direct answer to the question.

The FAA will probably ask to see the following:

Airframe and engine logbooks: Check for date of last condition inspection, and transponder/altimeter static checks.

Airworthiness certificate, registration, wt & bal, and equipment list.

Pilot certificates and medical

Pilot logbook book to show dates of last BFR, tailwheel endorsement, and takeoff and landing currency.

Again, all of the above is routine. If possible, when you first talk to the fed assigned to your investigation, ask him specifically what documents you are expected to produce. He will probably make copies of everything you provide him. However, if he discovers a discrepancy in the documentation, it may broaden his investigation beyond the reported incident.

I?m sure your investigation will go well and the inspector will probably commend you on your outstanding airmanship.

I didn't have to do all that. There is a list of basic questions that are available from forms on the internet. I was asked these questions on the phone, but finished the answers on the paperwork I downloaded, and sent it in. Some questions do involve dates from log books.

L.Adamson
 
Seriously? Gimme a break.

Luddite42,

A critical discipline to formation flight is to always be prepared to provide mutual support. A team member, whether it is your flight lead, element lead, or wingman, should be prepared to break out and render assistance to a stricken team member.

Recently, a Rocket, part of a two-ship formation, developed a high pressure fuel leak. The lead aircraft conducted a visual inspection and reported the nature and location of the leak to the pilot. Then amazingly, lead broke off and continued to the practice area. The Rocket proceeded to return to the airfield. On final, the fuel leak turned into a fire, smoke filled the cockpit. The Rocket pilot was unable to communicate due to smoke inhalation with eyes and throat irritation. He was blinded on short final. Fortunately, he was able to stop quickly by spiking the nose onto the runway to a stop. Fortunately, he egessed safely. Flight lead could have been of valuable assistance, however, he was out to lunch.

If you choose to fly formation, you either maintain all formation disciplines or not fly formation at all. The six ship fly-by could have continued as a four ship.
 
The question that I have is that why didn?t one of the formation pilots breakaway and fly as your escort and handle all the communications for you

DAGO, there was a excellent note / debrief from Flight Lead posted to the formation group, and I will post it here when I get permission, or maybe Greg will do that when he assesses the damage and fix solution, and after the FAA conversations. He is quite preoccupied right now (and family does come first).

In summary, Lead did not immediately know there was an emergency and was expecting Greg to rejoin. Greg could not receive radio info, and transmission from him were not immediately readable due to the high level of wind noise in the affected aircraft.
 
In summary, Lead did not immediately know there was an emergency and was expecting Greg to rejoin. Greg could not receive radio info, and transmission from him were not immediately readable due to the high level of wind noise in the affected aircraft.

Interesting. So is it possible that Raleigh ATC did not know that an aircraft with an emergency was approaching until it was on a three mile final?
 
Luddite42,

A critical discipline to formation flight is to always be prepared to provide mutual support. A team member, whether it is your flight lead, element lead, or wingman, should be prepared to break out and render assistance to a stricken team member.

Recently, a Rocket, part of a two-ship formation, developed a high pressure fuel leak. The lead aircraft conducted a visual inspection and reported the nature and location of the leak to the pilot. Then amazingly, lead broke off and continued to the practice area. The Rocket proceeded to return to the airfield. On final, the fuel leak turned into a fire, smoke filled the cockpit. The Rocket pilot was unable to communicate due to smoke inhalation with eyes and throat irritation. He was blinded on short final. Fortunately, he was able to stop quickly by spiking the nose onto the runway to a stop. Fortunately, he egessed safely. Flight lead could have been of valuable assistance, however, he was out to lunch.

If you choose to fly formation, you either maintain all formation disciplines or not fly formation at all. The six ship fly-by could have continued as a four ship.

Not gonna argue any of that...and notwithstanding all that, your assertion that they cared more about their formation show than a member in distress is nonsense, and I think you should retract that. Especially since you don't know the first thing about how they actually reponded, if they even continued the formation "show", who the other pilots were, their level of professionalism, and how much they "cared" about Greg. Puhlease.
 
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Not gonna argue any of that...and notwithstanding all that, your assertion that they cared more about their formation show than a member in distress is nonsense, and I think you should retract that. Especially since you don't know the first thing about how they actually reponded, if they even continued the formation "show", and who the other pilots were and how much they "cared" about Greg. Puhlease.

Puhlease indeed. Did another aircraft from that group break out and assist Greg? Follow/lead him to Raleigh and make sure that ATC was aware of the emergency?
 
As an Air Force trained fighter guy, one of the greatest benefits of formation flying is mutual support. Having a wingman assist you in this emergency would have been of great help. I don't recall seeing what formation number you were, but a simple recommendation would be to make sure the formation is broken up in pairs. If one of the pairs breaks out, the other aircraft of the pair breaks out as well to make sure everything is OK. Also, make sure everyone knows basic hand signals for use while NORDO.

I have landed an F-15E while on fire at night after hitting 18 Canadian Geese. My wingman was of great help. Additionally, while flying to Kuwait from the US, I went Nordo over Saudi Arabia and Kuwait was under a sand storm (making the field IFR). My flight lead was able to pass me visually important info (like altimeter setting), guide me to the airport, and land in formation. It is awesome to look good while flying formation, but flying formation adds threats to flying, so you need to be ready to use your formation members to help avert those threats.

Great job handling it on your own. I hope Will is ready for another flight!
 
I got permission to post this from Flight Lead. And as a note, the formation fly over was under the outer ring of RDU's Class C airspace, and outside the surface area. Greg's immediate pull up, MAYDAY, and heading to RDU put the aircraft in RDU's controled airspace and he started talking to the tower, on final, ASAP.

(Flight Leads name and email deleted by noelf)
. wrote:
>> Bandits,
>>
>> Kudos to Greg for a job well done! He got the plane on the ground with no
>> injuries-everything else is minor.
>> This incident reminds me of the first day in Air Force Pilot training where
>> they stressed three steps in an Emergency
>>
>> 1. Fly the airplane
>> 2. Analysis the situation
>> 3. Take corrective action
>>
>> Over my 40 years flying I have seen rule 1 violated numerous times with
>> drastic results. Recent examples are Cogan Air and the Air France Airbus
>> that crashed over the Atlantic. This could easily been catastrophic as Greg
>> was in an unanticipated, stressful situation but he concentrated on Rule 1
>> and did a great job of flying the plane, turning to Raleigh and getting it
>> on the ground. Once again Greg, great job, and now we can all talk and
>> learn from this incident.
>>
>>
>> FAA
>> The cause-just luck of the draw, sorry Greg it was not your lucky day.
>> Formation flying, an experimental RV plane, or fly over were not a factor in
>> the accident. It could have happened anytime, at any location, in any
>> plane. I am sure this will be the FAA's final decision. In regard to the
>> FAA, Paul is correct. We were always told to answer the questions honestly
>> but don't volunteer any information. Regarding the regulations, we were
>> requested to make a fly-over by the Susan G. Komen foundation at 10:30. We
>> briefed at 8:30 (flight has to be briefed) The flight was briefed that we
>> would make the fly over at 1,000 agl. and we would be below the Raleigh
>> class c airspace. If they ask you about altitude, I think your response
>> should be you were flying wing and watching #3 aircraft and you could not
>> monitor your altitude, you depend on lead for altitude. We made one pass
>> West to East and we were making a 270 turn for a North to South second pass
>> when you had the bird strike. We did not require a waiver as this was not a
>> TFR and we were not flying in waivered airspace. We were making a totally
>> legal formation flight. I feel sure the FAA will call me and I will stress
>> to them our formation flight complied with all FAR's and in no way
>> contributed to the incident.
>>
>> Monday Morning Analysis:
>>
>> In hind sight I should have sent #5 to escort you to RDU. The reason I
>> didn't was that I did not understand the severity of the situation until you
>> were on your way to RDU. The first radio call was hard to understand, it
>> was weak and sounded like another airplane in the far distance on our radio
>> freq. This was probably cause by the wind noise in the cockpit and the
>> microphone might have been blown away form Greg's mouth. As I remember the
>> next call I head was "I had a bird strike but I am OK". When I think of
>> bird strike I think of wing or tail strike and I did not think of the bird
>> coming through the windshield. I saw Greg had pulled out of the formation
>> but thought he would return to his home base for inspection. Then I say
>> Greg flying over us still with his smoke on and I called and told him his
>> smoke was still on. The next call I remember was Greg calling "Mayday" to
>> approach. This was the first time I realized this was a major issue, Greg
>> was flying away from us and we were almost over Meridith so I continue the
>> fly-over. We completed the fly over and then I tried to call RDU tower on
>> 121.5 to advise them but I got no response. I finally got approach control
>> and advised them you were diverting and they said you were on final. They
>> advised me when you landed and had the plane secure. From where I sit now,
>> I should have sent #5 with you.
>>
>> Future
>> Everyone is safe, the plane is on the ground now the most pressing issue is
>> Greg has a plane at RDU that needs a repair. I view this as a team problem
>> and we should offer Greg assistance. RDU is not the cheapest or best
>> location for repairs. I don't know the feasibility of getting a temporary
>> fix and ferry permit to fly it to a better location for repairs. Greg and
>> the better mechanics in our group can give some advice here. Those that are
>> working full time have a limited amount of time to offer. We are fortunate
>> that some in our group are semi-retired or retired and may have more time
>> available. Curt, Cecil, and Noel are excellent mechanics and may be able to
>> offer some assistance. I have limited mechanical ability but I do have some
>> time available for the next couple of weeks. Greg will have to take the
>> lead and tell us what assistance we can offer. Please feel free to use me as
>> a point of contact and I can coordinate everyone else.
>>
>> Once again, a great job by Greg and we are very fortunate we can discuss
>> this and then fly again.
>>
>> Jim
>>
 
Update

First, I can't thank everyone enough for all of your support during this situation. Have had no less than 30 different people contacting me to offer assistance. It's truly humbling.

Right now, I'm just waiting for the FAA and Insurance companies to do their thing so I can start the aircraft recovery. I'm also trying to be somewhat cautious about releasing too much information that might cause problems with the FAA or Insurance. Don't get me wrong, I believe all my paperwork is up to date, our flying was all per the regs, and the emergency was handled properly. You just never know when you might get a bored official trying to make a name for himself or simply having a bad day. I am optimistic though since I have had very good experiences with the local FSDO personnel dealing with other (non accident) issues.

As for the formation stuff, please don't get too worked up over the details of the formation procedures. You were not there and everything is just speculation until the details are released. I have debriefed with our flight lead and wingmen. Yes, it was a formal flight, with a detailed morning brief and all participants were trained in formation flying. The flyovers were very simple straight and level delta formation with me in the 6 position on the right wing. There were communication issues due to the extreme wind in the cockpit. I couldn't hear squat and my transmissions were not very clear either.

If you want to see the plane, the local news ran a small piece on it.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...-incident-causes-temporary-rdu-runway-closing

I'll post some more pictures after the FAA and insurance get their fill.
 
Bird Strike

Greg

By the look of it, it appears that having a slider vs a Tip Up may have help you in this case, the bird impact must have loss some of its momentum by hitting the center post vs one of you first..

Good job flying the plane first...

Bruno
 
Wow!

I never even thought about hitting a bird in formation (not that the birds know), but that could really cause some havoc. Great job keeping cool under fire!
 
First, I can't thank everyone enough for all of your support during this situation. Have had no less than 30 different people contacting me to offer assistance. It's truly humbling.

Right now, I'm just waiting for the FAA and Insurance companies to do their thing so I can start the aircraft recovery. I'm also trying to be somewhat cautious about releasing too much information that might cause problems with the FAA or Insurance. Don't get me wrong, I believe all my paperwork is up to date, our flying was all per the regs, and the emergency was handled properly. You just never know when you might get a bored official trying to make a name for himself or simply having a bad day. I am optimistic though since I have had very good experiences with the local FSDO personnel dealing with other (non accident) issues.

As for the formation stuff, please don't get too worked up over the details of the formation procedures. You were not there and everything is just speculation until the details are released. I have debriefed with our flight lead and wingmen. Yes, it was a formal flight, with a detailed morning brief and all participants were trained in formation flying. The flyovers were very simple straight and level delta formation with me in the 6 position on the right wing. There were communication issues due to the extreme wind in the cockpit. I couldn't hear squat and my transmissions were not very clear either.

If you want to see the plane, the local news ran a small piece on it.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content...-incident-causes-temporary-rdu-runway-closing

I'll post some more pictures after the FAA and insurance get their fill.

Good job flying the airplane, Greg.

Sure glad you were able to dodge the hawk after it entered through the windshield and landed in the baggage area. :)
 
Great job dealing with this on all counts. More than once during our formation debrief one of us has asked "did you see that bird go right between us?"
We all hope to handle the situation as well as you did.
 
I am wondering if some type of protective window film would help:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...cts/Residential/Safety-Security_Window_Films/

Robin, If this works like the pictures, it could be a great thing. Bird strike is a huge concern in so many areas. One of the reasons I am building a slider is for the bar - roll bar in the front to protect from bird strikes.

I wonder how it would install on a non-flat surface? Maybe with heat like they use on a car wrap it could be done. I think I will check with 3-M and see what they say. It looks like it is OK in the weather since it is used on outdoor windows. This may be a way to help out. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Greg, I was shocked to read your post this morning! But I'm very glad to hear that you and Will are OK.

It sounds like you did a fantastic job of handling the situation. I hope I do as well if I ever find myself in a similar emergency.

Please say hello to Robin for Connie and me. We think of you and your family often.
 
"In hind sight I should have sent #5 to escort you to RDU."

Absolutely, but you should have made that call right then.

"The reason I didn't was that I did not understand the severity of the situation until you were on your way to RDU."

This was a mistake, as lead your responsibility is the safety of the flight and all members of it.

"As I remember the next call I head was "I had a bird strike but I am OK". When I think of bird strike I think of wing or tail strike and I did not think of the bird coming through the windshield."

"I saw Greg had pulled out of the formation but thought he would return to his home base for inspection."

Hmmm, he is NORDO, blind and needs help. You should have done a better job managing your resources.

"The next call I remember was Greg calling "Mayday" to
approach."

OUCH, you still did not have situational awareness?

"This was the first time I realized this was a major issue, Greg
was flying away from us and we were almost over Meridith so I continue the
fly-over."

Lead you need to review the FFI or Fast formation qualifications for Lead and Wingman. Then review the T-38 manual prior to your next formation lead. Your wingman needed assistance.

Future formation wingmen and flight leads, this is not what you should be looking forward to with proper training, and the reason clinics are given and should be attended.

Respectfully Submitted.
EPepperman
 
"In hind sight I should have sent #5 to escort you to RDU."

Absolutely, but you should have made that call right then.

"The reason I didn't was that I did not understand the severity of the situation until you were on your way to RDU."

This was a mistake, as lead your responsibility is the safety of the flight and all members of it.

"As I remember the next call I head was "I had a bird strike but I am OK". When I think of bird strike I think of wing or tail strike and I did not think of the bird coming through the windshield."

"I saw Greg had pulled out of the formation but thought he would return to his home base for inspection."

Hmmm, he is NORDO, blind and needs help. You should have done a better job managing your resources.

"The next call I remember was Greg calling "Mayday" to
approach."

OUCH, you still did not have situational awareness?

"This was the first time I realized this was a major issue, Greg
was flying away from us and we were almost over Meridith so I continue the
fly-over."

Lead you need to review the FFI or Fast formation qualifications for Lead and Wingman. Then review the T-38 manual prior to your next formation lead. Your wingman needed assistance.

Future formation wingmen and flight leads, this is not what you should be looking forward to with proper training, and the reason clinics are given and should be attended.

Respectfully Submitted.
EPepperman

While your points are good, it is really easy to find fault post mortem. I am guilty of this and am trying to do better and be more understanding and less judgemental. We can all learn from these types of situations and I am very glad people post them, and put themselves up for "public" scrutiny.

I have been in a lot of formation sorties and the focus seems to always be a relatively standard FFI protocol, wing work, rejoins, etc... but rarely, if ever, emergency procedure practiced. I think we can all learn from this experience. Here we had experienced people that would probably do things differently as there 20/20 hind site kicked in, but they didn't at the time do perhaps what they should.
What would I do? I have never done an up and out, and I am 40+ hour carded wingman. I flew a 32 ship last year and the thought going through my mind buried in a large formation is what a mess if something happened but remember, up and out, do it.
In that scenerio, what would the flight lead do if suddenly someone was out, made a non-descript call that he was ok? What would my element lead do? I am learning lead now, what would I do in the presence of a real situation?
I am not so sure I would have handled this per the "standards", but I am willing to train, and learn, so I can be prepared. Sounds like a good discussion at our next local practice.
 
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Great job flying the airplane, especially with your little one on board.

I would not worry about the FAA too much on this one. You have the right to violate any Part 91 regulation if you're in an emergency situation and you deem the deviation necessary for the successful completion of the flight.

Reference: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...e63bbedc3044a110852566cf00612076!OpenDocument

FAA folks are just human and I seriously doubt they will bust your chops for this one.

Again..good job.
 
Great job flying the airplane, especially with your little one on board.

I would not worry about the FAA too much on this one. You have the right to violate any Part 91 regulation if you're in an emergency situation and you deem the deviation necessary for the successful completion of the flight.

Reference: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...e63bbedc3044a110852566cf00612076!OpenDocument

FAA folks are just human and I seriously doubt they will bust your chops for this one.

Again..good job.

I'm guessing your experience with aviation safety inspectors is limited...

Greg - wish you the best.
 
I'm guessing your experience with aviation safety inspectors is limited...

Mine is limited but I find it unrealistic to find ANY fault with Greg's handling of the situation. If you want to really nitpick, you can slap his hand over a radio configuration issue initially.

But you really have to ignore the stress of the situation...the injuries to himself and his kid (did you see how much plexiglass was turned into shrapnel going around their faces?) and what was surely limited time from the bird strike until they landed.

That any Fed would try to create a "violation" seems unfathomable to me.

I would side with the others who suggest that it will be mostly a perfunctory (is that right) process that will be painless.
 
Hey All,

I will not comment on this flight, but will on formation flight in general. Some of the former military pilots talked about military rules and they are correct without being judgmental. Lead is responsible for the safety of all the members of his flight. Since the pilots on the wing are giving him all their attention, so they fly the briefed position, lead must be on the lookout for traffic. Birds are hard to see, so I certainly wouldn't blame him for missing this one. Lead is also responsible to check on his wingmen to make sure they are in position. I remember an accident several years ago where one of the wingmen slipped back out of formation and Lead did nothing about it. They learned the wingman had crashed after they landed! Calling the wingman may be futile, since a pilot with spatial disorientation or an emergency probably won't answer you. If someone falls back or pulls up and won't or can't answer you query, then ask one of your outermost wingmen to spread out an go assist him. Lead can then turn the formation at an easier pace to find out what is going on.
I had a career's worth of flying formation and saw a bunch of unexpected things occur. I once tried to join up on a F-84F, had an awful time getting my bird slowed down, and when under control pulled up on his wing only to find out the cockpit was empty. He had already bailed out when the engine quit. No wonder I had trouble staying behind him with a running engine!

Have fun flying formation, but be very careful. Without an ejection seat and parachute this can be dangerous.

Jim
 
Mine is limited but I find it unrealistic to find ANY fault with Greg's handling of the situation. If you want to really nitpick, you can slap his hand over a radio configuration issue initially.

But you really have to ignore the stress of the situation...the injuries to himself and his kid (did you see how much plexiglass was turned into shrapnel going around their faces?) and what was surely limited time from the bird strike until they landed.

That any Fed would try to create a "violation" seems unfathomable to me.

I would side with the others who suggest that it will be mostly a perfunctory (is that right) process that will be painless.
My comment had nothing to do with Greg's performance, and it sure sounds like he scored 100 on his handling of a very bad deal. I was just relating my experience in dealing with the FAA regarding an incident, and even non event conditions, can be unpredictable. Remember Bob Hoover?
 
My comment had nothing to do with Greg's performance, and it sure sounds like he scored 100 on his handling of a very bad deal. I was just relating my experience in dealing with the FAA regarding an incident, and even non event conditions, can be unpredictable. Remember Bob Hoover?

As I said, I dealt with the NTSB and FAA, due to landing/damage incident with my RV. It wasn't a bad experience, by any means. I'm just mentioning it again, in case it was missed.
 
Nice job

handling the situation - I know how rattled I was once having a door pop open on me with my 6yo son in the passenger seat.

Wow - not much left of that windshield - you're both very lucky; glad you're OK...
 
...Flying along fine then in a split second I see a flash of a hawk (CLEARLY) and then all **** broke loose. Stuff was flying around the cockpit pieces of plexi everywhere and LOUD wind...


Welcome to a most unwelcome club! Nice job getting the airplane back on the ground!

2zqsoec.jpg


Picture is from last year's event.


My birdstrike event has changed how I fly quite a bit. The high speed low passes are over, and I now give the little black specks in the sky a wide berth. Even so, I think this particular airplane is a bird magnet, as I had ANOTHER birdstrike a few weeks ago. Just a routine breakfast run - nice "safe" cross country flight profile, and on postflight inspection noticed blood and feathers on the prop and cowl. Never even saw it in flight.
 
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Way to go Neon

Neon, all this drivel about the FAA and safety violations are just that.

You did a great job, it was an emergency, you handled it superbly.

Glad you and Will are safe and sound.

Move on and don't worry about the Feds.
 
Nice job

Nice job getting back and glad you are both safe. Welcome to the bird strike club. I had mine a few months back. My local FSDO called and I sent them pictures and that was that as far as Feds and I also filed the bird strike online form that goes to the smithsonian inst. I am trying to remember to put my visor down or sunglasses on below 1000 feet now to protect my eyes.
I use to own a Scottish aviation bulldog that was used for primary flight training by the RAF in England. They do a lot of low level flying and paint the props black and white as well as the spinner. http://www.airliners.net/photo/0632770/
Seems like our airplanes are hard for birds to see.
Nigel
KCCR RV6
 
Not only hard to see, but moving relatively fast. In slow planes, birds seem to hear/see/feel you coming, and generally dive to get out of the way.

At the speed RV's travel, there is less time for the bird to do it's avoidance maneuver.
 
Nice job getting back and glad you are both safe. Welcome to the bird strike club. I had mine a few months back. My local FSDO called and I sent them pictures and that was that as far as Feds and I also filed the bird strike online form that goes to the smithsonian inst. I am trying to remember to put my visor down or sunglasses on below 1000 feet now to protect my eyes.
I use to own a Scottish aviation bulldog that was used for primary flight training by the RAF in England. They do a lot of low level flying and paint the props black and white as well as the spinner. http://www.airliners.net/photo/0632770/
Seems like our airplanes are hard for birds to see.
Nigel
KCCR RV6

Interesting prop paint job. I can see where this type of paint job *might* have some effect.

But I asked before, and nobody responded...have their been any empirical studies done on the efficacy of different patterns of light/dark or coloration on the spinners or props viz-a-viz bird avoidance, that anyone knows about?

At 2500 RPM, a two-tone spinner is rotating at over 40 times per second. Can a bird's eyes even *see* that rapid of a change? The *human* eye can't (which is why movies work at 24 fps, or TV at 30 fps interlaced)...the "refresh" rate of the human eye is around 1/15th of a second.

Are birds eyes "faster" than humans?
 
I like your paint job, nice airplane. Sorry about the damage. :( Hope your boy comes out of this without any emotional issues.

Look at the brightside, my last bird strike cost over $257K. The one before that, $2.1m. :D
 
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