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QB hours decomposition

iaw4

Well Known Member
The vans site quotes 1000-1300 hours for the standard kit with a 40% saving for the QB. Presumably 600 hours for an experienced vans builder. I read this forum for a while, but have not found a description of what is included in this estimate. Avionics? Painting? Engine install? Or just the build? Could some experienced builders please describe hourly components and how many hours it should take a real experienced builder to get to the final airplane?
 
The vans site quotes 1000-1300 hours for the standard kit with a 40% saving for the QB. Presumably 600 hours for an experienced vans builder. I read this forum for a while, but have not found a description of what is included in this estimate. Avionics? Painting? Engine install? Or just the build? Could some experienced builders please describe hourly components and how many hours it should take a real experienced builder to get to the final airplane?

I suspect that estimate is for using all of the Vans kits/parts/wiring, etc., as well as buying ready to go engines, etc. As well as a pure "by the book" build. If you start doing your own wiring or engine overhaul, etc. the hours go up. I have no idea how close to reality those numbers are, but I haven't found Van's estimates to be overly optimistic. They are pretty honest and straightforward. Though, I am sure that people all build at different paces, so it must be something of a ballpark.

Larry
 
The vans site quotes 1000-1300 hours for the standard kit with a 40% saving for the QB. Presumably 600 hours for an experienced vans builder. I read this forum for a while, but have not found a description of what is included in this estimate. Avionics? Painting? Engine install? Or just the build? Could some experienced builders please describe hourly components and how many hours it should take a real experienced builder to get to the final airplane?

I'd say the hours are very optimistic for a builder like me: first airplane, doing some extras like priming internal parts (Florida based airplane), and some options like Beringer brakes/wheels, etc. I did QB wings and I'd conservatively estimate I have 1800-2000 hours in the build (not including exterior paint which I had done by a paint shop). And I spent many hours studying plans when traveling for business that I'm not including. I was very good about working on the airplane when I wasn't traveling - waited until last possible moment to move from garage to hangar, and I have an air-conditioned garage too. But I'd say I spent more time than most on ticky-tacky stuff like deburring and shaping parts, re-work on stuff I wasn't happy with, and spending time on small customizations like re-doing most of the micro-molex connectors with better ones, etc.

I do think an experienced builder, doing a very standard build, could do it in Van's estimated time frame - especially if you have a helper readily available for the occasional times you need a bucking partner or lifting help etc.
 
There are so many factors that contribute to the time spent whether it is calculated in hours or years. Having built an early slow build -6 in 2 years and a QB -7 in 14 months, I never actually calculated man hours for either build. I am fortunate that my work schedule has allowed me to spend large uninterrupted periods of time building which I think can speed things up considerably. For those 9-5 types that are only able to spend a few hours in the evening and weekends, the build can last decades. It seemed that whenever I would get back to work on the machine it would take me an hour or so to get everything in order, mentally and physically. Once I was up to speed things moved right along. The quality of the build is another factor, those striving for an OSH award winner may double or even triple estimated build times. The availability of drop in wiring harnesses, avionics and interiors can decreased build times significantly. The value of forums such as VAF cannot be understated, and with new RV`s taking to the air every day, it just keeps getting better!
 
The published build time estimates are based on an assumption of building the airplane per the plans while using standard / recommended components that are not included in the basic kit (engine, propeller, instrument panel, wiring harness, etc.)
It does not account for work done towards a paint job / final finishing.

As would be expected (and echoed repeatedly here in the forums by experienced builders), any deviation / modification should be expected to exponentially increase the build time..... It is almost a daily occurrence to have someone post requests like "how do you install XXX on an RV-X".
Especially in the context of the RV-14, it is extremely rare for 3rd party optional parts to come with step by step instructions developed to the level of those in the RV-14 kit. Add to that, the fact that a lot of the popular "options" are rather generic and don't directly replace the standard component. This usually translates to a lot of "figuring it out" time spent by the builder.
 
RV9, with a few modifications from original plans that added some time (e.g., throttle quadrant, built-in wing camera), QB wings and fuselage, basic Dynon/garmin panel with a couple steam backups. I added up to just under 1200 hours, not including time spent looking for parts and thinking about how to do stuff, not including paint. This was my first build, mostly just me but occasionally some help from others to buck rivets, turn bolts where it required two people. I've since added/modified stuff but that is not included in the time.

As they say, YMMV.
 
thanks, scott. Where are those numbers? I am less interested in total hours (though this is also interesting), and more in what it includes and what fractions there are. if an experienced builder sticks to the Vans plans, would the 600 hour contain 100(?) hour for the stock panel avionics and 50 hours for the paint job, for example?


PS: With two left hands and 3 kids, building an airplane is beyond me, but I am wondering if I can find someone who has already built a few Vans, enjoys it, is very good at it, and getting near the point of engine and avionics...despite already once having fallen for someone with a big mouth a long time ago.
 
1000-1300 hours to complete? Are you kidding me??? Hah!! I'm at about 1000 hours now and haven't even finished the wings (although I admit I'm having to build the flaps twice). I've been at it for 3 years now, building when I'm not flying, and only on weekends because of my pesky job getting in the way. I have no way to tell for sure, but I'm guessing I have another 2 years before I'm finished based on my progress so far. The funny thing is (ludicrous actually) is that when I started I was convinced I would be flying in 2 years. I am now humbled.
 
Question is:

[1] how many hours for airplane itself?
[2] how many hours for firewall forward (engine, prop, etc)?
[3] how many hours for avionics and interiors?
 
1000-1300 hours to complete? Are you kidding me??? Hah!! I'm at about 1000 hours now and haven't even finished the wings (although I admit I'm having to build the flaps twice). I've been at it for 3 years now, building when I'm not flying, and only on weekends because of my pesky job getting in the way. I have no way to tell for sure, but I'm guessing I have another 2 years before I'm finished based on my progress so far. The funny thing is (ludicrous actually) is that when I started I was convinced I would be flying in 2 years. I am now humbled.


Are you doing a QB? That is what the OP is asking about. I think Van's is on the very low side.
 
Yeah

The factory numbers, for most people, are wishful thinking.

Someone who has built previously, makes no mods, and builds the basic airplane, may come close to the high side...otherwise, no.

There are two things for certain:

It will take longer than you think.

It will cost more than you think.

Enjoy the journey...
 
My 2 centavos

Something that hasn't been mentioned which I believe to be a big factor in overall build time...time blocks dedicated to the work. For example, if you have a typical day job, and put in two hours every third evening, you will spend a lot of time getting spun up and getting started...as opposed to the typical airline pilot bum who can dedicate 3-4 continuous days without interruption towards the build, and then study ahead while sitting comfortably at 36,000'. Much more efficient to dedicate big blocks of time to the build (my opinion only, because I would NEVER review the plans, or update my logbook, or organize pictures, or just think.... while working!)

Also, if you have a good mentor....perhaps someone who has an active project just ahead of you...it is a great source of steering and guidance as opposed to scratching your head for a few hours and then waiting until Van's tech support opens to ask a silly question!

These two inputs worked well for me...allowing me to complete my first project in under 1200 hours (including paint) and it turned out okay. (Thanks Mike!)
 
As others have mentioned, focus and ability to do a good chunk of time or working on it daily, will reduce the overall time it will take. Pervious experience will also help greatly.

One big factor for me was to build it in my garage which allowed me to spend 2-3 hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening after work but worked on it 6 days a week, every week.
Things that will prolong the build such as maintaining a Web log, deviating from plans, hanger talk/visit and beer breaks are some of the prime reason for prolonging.

My 14A took 11 months to have it at paint ready stage and two months for painting. It was well worth every minute I spent in the garage.
 
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