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Best way to keep people off your plane?

ChiefPilot

Well Known Member
Looking for suggestions for keeping people from putting their kids on my plane at fly-in breakfasts etc. Signs such as "NO STEP", "Please do not touch", etc. seem to have no effect. The CAP cadets who were so energetic in "directing" traffic on the ground with their batons etc. apparently were not instructed to keep people from touching aircraft. At one point, some lady was starting to hoist her kid into the cockpit of my RV and seemed surprised when I asked loudly and sternly for her to remove her child from the aircraft. :mad:

What have you tried to prevent such shenanigans? What's worked?
 
Classical Conditioning

I am polishing my plane. Hence, it will be a good conductor. I plan a 110 inverter, connected to an electric cattle fence unit connected to the skin. Add a remote and you can be sure each individual will touch the plane only once. I suppose a suitable "HIGH VOLTAGE, DO NOT TOUCH" sign would be appropriate....
 
We put "Ask for assistance" signs on the factory aircraft at airshows but that is not entirely effective. It seems that some people just have their own agenda. Other than closing the canopy locking it I don't know of anything else that would work.:rolleyes:
 
How about a canopy cover and a really ugly paint job. Nobody wants to take a picture of their kid standing on the flap of the ugliest airplane. A canopy cover really does keep the usual inconsiderate people out of it I think.
 
Harley riders are fond of a sticker that says (paraphrased, sticker uses vulgar language) "If you value your life as much as I value my bike, then don't mess with it". The airplane version would probably also require the pilot to grow a full face beard, wear a black leather jacket with 1%'er patches, and get lots of tattoos to be as effective. :p
 
I've been wanting to make a sign to hang from the prop that reads "If you don't run your fingers over my plane, I won't run my plane over your fingers."
 
I've had multiple run-ins with kids/parents doing stupid stuff but the most recent one last year was I caught a kid standing on my wheelpant. I politely told the father to please keep his son off the airplanes and what does the guy do? Takes him right over to my buddy's plane next to me where he put him on the wheelpant. Needless to say my friend went into orbit on the guy...
 
You simply can't fix stupid!

At one of our fly-in's a Champ owner walked back to his plane to find a two year-old sitting on cowling with the prop rotated vertically and the kid holding on to it while his dad stood back and took a picture.

The guy almost killed the father and the father was lucky the Champ didn't kill the kid.

Let us know what works. I'm thinking a pit bull might do the trick.

PS. I walked back to my plane before it was painted to find some guy sitting on the wing tip. He almost died right then and there.
 
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Even at Oshkosh! I was standing in front of the firewall with my back to the wing showing a visitor how I mounted my red cube when I felt the nose go up slightly. I turned around and there was a guy with one foot on my step about to place his other foot on my wing walk. I asked him if he was the owner, I think he got the message and backed off. I could hear a remark under his breath about just taking a look and not harming anything! Caught me totally off gard and I didn't do anything but in retrospect, sure wish I had :mad:
 
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Some of you saw my sign in Oshkosh.

Worked ok but.

Do not touch unless you are Naked and Female.:rolleyes:

I told on lady she could touch and her husband laughed at that when he saw
The sign.

All in good fun.
There are some people that don't get it.
 
There is no silver bullet. IMO, one of the better things you can do is make acquaintances with others parked near you. When you're around, keep an eye on their planes and vice versa...

Also, people understand the car analogy. "Sir/Maam, I probably feel the same about you (standing, sitting, touching, banging on, entering, or moving) my airplane as you'd feel if I did that to your car.
 
Looking for suggestions for keeping people from putting their kids on my plane at fly-in breakfasts etc. Signs such as "NO STEP", "Please do not touch", etc. seem to have no effect. The CAP cadets who were so energetic in "directing" traffic on the ground with their batons etc. apparently were not instructed to keep people from touching aircraft. At one point, some lady was starting to hoist her kid into the cockpit of my RV and seemed surprised when I asked loudly and sternly for her to remove her child from the aircraft. :mad:

What have you tried to prevent such shenanigans? What's worked?

How about something along these lines?

a3888562-25-OV-10%20Ejection%20Seat%20Decals.jpg
 
I've been thinking of a sign that says "You can touch my airplane if I can play with your wife's t*ts."
 
Car alarm with a panic feature? Instead of the indicators, how about wiring it into the Nav lights?
 
It would be interesting to put yellow caution tape from spinner,wing tip, rudder,wing tip, and back to spinner, with a good sign on all quadrants and do a test. If that doesn't work than forget about it, nothing will work except an armed guard.
image.jpg
 
Turbo---I like the armed guard thing. Or maybe some one like Bill Goldberg or Brian Urlacker to watch over things.
 
Poison/Pesticide Type sign...?

I know the signs people put in their yards about recently sprayed pesticides definitely keep people (and pets) out. Perhaps a sign proclaiming that this plane has recently been coated with some sort of protective agent, known to cause cancer (in California)... could work.:D
 
Honestly.....

The only thing I've seen that halfway works is simply a rope around the aircraft held up by whatever you have in mind and standing there watching the bird. I've caught kids standing on my wheelpants too. The non-aviators just don't know that an aircraft is a compromise between weight and strength. They have no idea that spinning a prop could start the engine and kill them. I love the idea about educating the public through airshows and such but the liability involved in this litigious society gives me the chills. Non aviators are best taken in small amounts after a meal. If you overdose, or can't control your temper after 4 hours, you may want to consult a doctor. :)
 
Event organizers should do more.

I think all event organizers should make it CLEAR in black and white, on the wrist bands, on signs, on everything-- THE AIRPLANES ARE HAND-CRAFTED, DELICATE AND EXPENSIVE-- KEEP OFF OR GET KICKED OUT.

OR- "It took my hands 5,000 hours to build this airplane. It will take them a split second to break your face if you damage it."

How do people at classic car shows deal with this?
 
can't change public perception that easily!

.........too bad there are a million photos of air crews standing around on military jets, Ice Pilots walking along the wing of a DC-3 sweeping off the snow.
...... and a LOT of US take a photo of our buddy, nearly always leaning on the plane, or the prop.

....stop doing this, and you have the start of understanding.

chance of this happening? <.00000001/10 :(

IF you have the energy and stomach for it, when there are a few people around your aircraft, loudly proclaim...." would anyone like to take a closer look? I am the owner, and I can show you what is safe to touch, so that the engine, or the pilot, doesn't kill you!" :rolleyes:
 
I have no desire to leave any airplane unattended at Oshkosh after reading this thread. When/if I go, I'll be leaving mine at home and taking a commercial flight or flying with a friend instead.
 
Oshkosh wasn't a problem for me. Copper State last year, however, was almost comical. The lack of awareness among the public is frightening.
 
"How do people at classic car shows deal with this"

It is entirly up to the event organizers to plan for this in advance by having the area roped off. There are no signs that will keep people off your plane or car. I have had people get in my car and remove the "Please do not touch" sign because it was in the way of their photo.
 
How do people at classic car shows deal with this?

Ha, I deal with this on both end, airplane and car! I think the car shows are worse. At least most of the public intuitively understand that airplanes are dangerous. Cars on the other hand, every idiot owns one. You cannot believe the slobbering 7 year-olds that Moms have tried to sit in my car, even with me standing there.

I've had a few folks at Airventure cross the line, but mostly, people are respectful there. Don't be afraid to come to Oshkosh because of the 1%. As others have said, your neighbors will mostly look out for you while you are away, especially in the sea of RVs.
 
I think all event organizers should make it CLEAR in black and white, on the wrist bands, on signs, on everything-- THE AIRPLANES ARE HAND-CRAFTED, DELICATE AND EXPENSIVE-- KEEP OFF OR GET KICKED OUT.

I think Katie may be on to something. Clearly at least some folks think their admission price entitles them to be able to ignore the don't touch signage and frankly abuse aircraft that are not their own. While I'll agree that it is stupidity (or more likely ignorance) on their part to do it, I don't believe this is the root problem (which is why finding a solution is so difficult).

The root problem IMO is they feel entitled by their admission fee to sit in planes, stand on them, wiggle parts, etc. The solution is as Katie says is for the show organizers to warn people that touching an airplane without the explicit permission of the owner WILL get you ejected from the show. If attendees occasionally saw individuals and families being ejected from a show, it would soon become apparent that the aircraft are there to be looked at and not touched. It will never be 100% but I'd bet it could get a lot better.
 
57C

Each year at East Troy Wisconsin, a week before Oshkosh, there is an airport open house with aircraft, cars, food, helicopter rides and such. Real nice event.

All aircraft are kept in roped off rows or other roped off areas. I don't see anything wrong with this idea. If you are with your aircraft and want to extend an invitation for someone to come across the line for a closer look, that's fine. This works out well.
 
I think Katie may be on to something. Clearly at least some folks think their admission price entitles them to be able to ignore the don't touch signage and frankly abuse aircraft that are not their own. While I'll agree that it is stupidity (or more likely ignorance) on their part to do it, I don't believe this is the root problem (which is why finding a solution is so difficult).

The root problem IMO is they feel entitled by their admission fee to sit in planes, stand on them, wiggle parts, etc. The solution is as Katie says is for the show organizers to warn people that touching an airplane without the explicit permission of the owner WILL get you ejected from the show. If attendees occasionally saw individuals and families being ejected from a show, it would soon become apparent that the aircraft are there to be looked at and not touched. It will never be 100% but I'd bet it could get a lot better.

The road through the fence at our airport has big signs about tresspassing and unathorized vehicle not allowed beyond the fence are a federal offense. That does not stop ANYONE. They all believe the fence, the sign, and the rules are for others to follow and not them.
 
Fence

The airport fence, more than any other factor, was the start of the decline of private aviation in the US. I HATE airport fences. Regarding the sub humans who damage airplanes, especially at shows, a modest bounty of say $10 per head would quickly take care of this problem.
 
Improper upbringing is the cause.

Last month at a pancake(huckleberry :)) Fly-in. I was wandering back to my plane w/several people standing around. a man with 3 small kids(4-6yr old) was coming around the front, when one of the little pests stepped up on the wheel pant.
I was 50' away, but yelled "hey don't stand there".
As I got closer, another one took position on the wheel pant. I was a bit louder now and said "HEY, GET OFF MY PLANE".
The kids looked scared. I looked at Dad and said "that's how stuff gets broke". His response was, "well once of them do it they all have to"
I said in a not so friendly tone "no they do it, because you let them" "These are not toys and are expensive if damaged"

As they left, I spoke to a fellow RV buiilder and LongEZ guy. He said they had already chased them off the wing before I came into view. I needed to get going, but thought about following them to their car and climbing on the hood...all 250# of me. get a few others to follow, you know once one of us do it they'll all want to!
 
The road through the fence at our airport has big signs about tresspassing and unathorized vehicle not allowed beyond the fence are a federal offense. That does not stop ANYONE. They all believe the fence, the sign, and the rules are for others to follow and not them.

You've hit more on the root problem here. Signs, warnings, etc will only have an effect on those who actually read and understand them. In most cases, the consequences of ignoring the warnings are no worse than maybe a tongue-lashing...and you can bet that the kinds of people who ignore the warnings aren't the kind likely to take that tongue-lashing to heart and realize they made a mistake. They'll more likely write the aircraft owner off as an overdramatic [insert euphemism here] and move on to the next airplane.

It'd be nice to be able to simply eject anyone who violates the rules - maybe after a warning or two, or if they show sign of belligerence after being asked nicely to not touch - but that of course comes with a price, in the form of needing additional security-type people around to enforce this stuff.
 
Wow, some great & entertaining suggestions!

I've already written the CAP squadron that hosted the fly-in with a suggestion/request of stationing some of the cadets who were on baton duty to watch the aircraft and inform people that they should not be touched. I'm looking forward to their response.

Beyond that, I think I got off lucky. Among the more egregious things I observed:
- One woman started helping her youngster into the cockpit, even opening the sliding canopy part way to facilitate this.
- Several people could help but grab the control surfaces and move them stop-to-stop to see what they did
- One individual grabbed the prop and started to move it

This is really kind of a bummer, since I really liked talking to all the kinds who showed a spark of interest in aviation. One little girl, perhaps 10-12 years old, was really interested and was asking thoughtful questions - she wants to be a pilot when she grows up. Perhaps putting the chain around the aircraft is something I will look into as well.

Otherwise, out of concern not only for the aircraft but also liability, I believe I shall either not go to such events OR if I attend I may ignore the CAP cadets trying to direct traffic and simply taxi to the far side of the field and park. Ugh.
 
Among the more egregious things I observed:

I feel compelled to relate an entertaining story here. A couple years back, at my CAF wing's Christmas dinner, I shared a table with one of our P-51 pilots. (let us call him John). John told lots of hilarious stories over that dinner, but my favorite was this one.

Seems John had flown the Mustang to a show and had, at one point, wandered off for reasons that are unimportant to the tale. When he returned to the plane, he found a kid standing nonchalantly on the wing, with Dad watching from the ground. John politely asked the man to get his son off the wing, at which point the man immediately became belligerent..."I paid to get in this show, I can climb on whatever I want, blah blah blah..." Eventually the man acquiesced, removed his son from the wing, and the two of them strolled off.

Sometime later in the day, having wandered away from the Mustang yet again, John came back to find the same man up on the wing this time. The kid was actually sitting in the cockpit, pretending to fly and talking into what he took to be the radio mike.

"Sir, you really shouldn't let your son do that."

"Blah blah blah I paid to get in blah blah whatever I want blah blah..."

"Sir, that's not a radio, it's a relief tube. I pee in that."

"AAAUUUUGGGGH GET OUT OF THERE SON"

One can only hope that a lesson was learned.
 
I had an incident at the only, first, and last fly-in I'll ever attend with my Midget Mustang...

First, I had to shoo off a toddler who was doing his best to climb up the trailing edge of my wing where my lowered flaps intersect with the aileron. I was uncharacteristically calm and patient in discussing the issue with the toddler's mother.

Less than 10 minutes later, I glanced over towards my plane and saw a toddler laying spread-eagle on top of my canopy trying to get a good look at the interior of my plane. I again discussed the issue with the parent...

I had been asked to park my plane near the show entrance next to a real Mustang. After 2 incidents, I decided to move my plane to the nether regions of the ramp before leaving the ramp for lunch. On returning from lunch, I first noticed the adult sitting on the leading edge of my left wing. As I got closer to the plane, I also noticed that my prop had been moved through about 40 degrees of rotation.

I left and don't plan on attending another fly-in where the general public has access to the flight line. I've declined invitations to 3 different fly-ins where event organizers called with a special invite... Steamboat Springs, Front Range and Jeffco... for the Colorado locals.

I'm very patient with parents and kids who show proper respect for the property of others. I frequently let little kids sit in my plane so their parents can take pictures. I feel an obligation to be a good ambassador for general aviation, but never again will I allow my plane to be treated like McDonald's play land toy at an unrestrained fly-in.

My plane has been hiding out in my hangar in an unflyable condition for over a year so my dislike for fly-ins has been pretty well moot anyway! :eek:
 
Here is a suggestion:

Have some essence of skunk with you. Disposable amount that is only opened after you get out of the plane. Then thrown out after opening. Put it on the ground under the wings or belly of the plane (so you won't step on it). This will keep people away from 4-5 planes. I am not sure how long it will last, but probably a while.

Or butyric acid will do the same thing. Smell of puke.
 
Photos

How about a photo of someone standing on or sitting on top of a car? And another of a jungle jim with the "no" circle slash symbol. The caption reads "You wouldn't stand or play on your car would you? This is MY private property I brought for you to LOOK at with your EYES, not your HANDS. It's expensive and fragile. Questions? I'd love to show you my plane in person. I'll be back by....."
Reworded this might do the trick printed on the scheduled of events
 
Ugh. I'd hate to be remembered as the plane that smelled like skunk.

I guess i've been lucky so far, but i've only had my RV for three years. A pilot from my airport who once owned a beautiful deHavilland Chipmunk that he restored himself to grand champion condition, once returned to his plane to find a father had placed his toddler on the wingtip, and was encouraging him to run down the wing to the wing root. I believe the father feared for his life before he left, though the pilot never touched him.

The problem, as someone pointed out earlier, is entitlement. Society in general seems to have developed a sense of entitlement that far outweighs reality. Maybe it's the consumerist society we live in now, where so few people create things by their own hand, that they don't appreciate the work that goes into it. Or the disposable society that believes that anything bought can be thrown out and replaced instantly if it wears out.
 
.... A pilot from my airport who once owned a beautiful deHavilland Chipmunk that he restored himself to grand champion condition, once returned to his plane to find a father had placed his toddler on the wingtip, and was encouraging him to run down the wing to the wing root. ....

The exact same thing happened to a Tucson RV pilot at a local AFB show. The kid was actually walking on the wing.

When he mentioned(!!) it to the father, the answer he got was "well you brought the plane here..."

The pilot said his normally very calm and peaceful wife was ready to commit murder...;)
 
I thought this just happens in Chile:mad:

I have to admit, I have been in Argentina a few times with my plane on airshows and people was very respectful they even ask to take pictures, maybe just lucky:p
 
...{snip}...

"Sir, that's not a radio, it's a relief tube. I pee in that."

We used to tell people that the relief tubes on our CH-46 was the emergency intercom system. You know, kinda like the sound powered phones aboard ship.
 
That's what you get for getting your airplane all gorgeous and everything. If you'd just built it like cr*P like I told you, this wouldn't be a problem. :D

Where was this fly-in?
 
It is called respect

I thought this just happens in Chile:mad:

I have to admit, I have been in Argentina a few times with my plane on airshows and people was very respectful they even ask to take pictures, maybe just lucky:p

You hit the nail on the head with the word respect. People MUST ask permission, out of respect, to use someones rest room, have a drink of water, touch the airplane, handle the gun, date the daughter, etc. But, fathers don't teach their children respect and the lack of respect goes on for generation as does respect goes on for generations.

When boys or men, don't ask a father permission to speak to his daughter, let alone date her, as it has been for several generations, why would they give a hoot about a $100,000 airplane.

So the solution is to teach respect, to your wife, children, neighbors, friends, to all you meet and teach them to teach others, or come up with a way to combat the symptoms of poor parenting.

If enough people had respect for others they would even police people abusing others property.
 
Another Idea

I am polishing my plane. Hence, it will be a good conductor. I plan a 110 inverter, connected to an electric cattle fence unit connected to the skin. Add a remote and you can be sure each individual will touch the plane only once. I suppose a suitable "HIGH VOLTAGE, DO NOT TOUCH" sign would be appropriate....

I like this one, the 'HIGH VOLTAGE' needs to be small print.

Since it is not likely my last Idea will take place, at least for quite sometime. Try this,

Carry a blow up manikin with you and a fake pool of blood, lay it down in front of the airplane, face down, and a ripped sign laying next to him that says "do not touch."

Or my favorite one is several signs hanging on the plane that say, "There is a scope trained on your head right now."
 
My advice for a general show that is open to the public is...

Rope your plane off. Kids love props and elevators so pay special attention to those areas.

Put a few airplanes in the roped off area. That way other owners can share the 'guard time'.

Never ever ever ever let a single kid across the line to sit in the cockpit. By the time you turn around there will be 25 kids in line for their seat time. This applies to 'across-the-line' photos as well.

Lock your control surfaces even if there a short time.

Signs give you something to point at but people as a whole think rules don't apply to them.

If you are at a pilots only oriented fly-in then...

Yelling, cursing and capital punishment are not of limits.
 
I think all event organizers should make it CLEAR in black and white, on the wrist bands, on signs, on everything-- THE AIRPLANES ARE HAND-CRAFTED, DELICATE AND EXPENSIVE-- KEEP OFF OR GET KICKED OUT.

OR- "It took my hands 5,000 hours to build this airplane. It will take them a split second to break your face if you damage it."

How do people at classic car shows deal with this?

OK, you have me going now.

My thoughts about airshows is run the spectators through a 5 minute seminar on not touching aircraft and why, then give them a wrist band. Let them know if they break the airplane that they will pay for fit, give them an idea what the cost is to fix certain things. If someone does not look like they are paying attention, make them sit through another class.

If someone scratches, dents or some how damages your airplane, get their ID and tell them you will send them a bill, BIG bill, for the repairs, if they don't cooperate, put them under citizens arrest and call the cops. Some people need a lesson in life, one they will remember for a long time.
 
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