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No Wonder People Bash RV's

gbrasch

gbrasch

Well Known Member
Getting out of my car at work this morning at KFHU, one of the few remaining joint civilian/military airports, approach to the main runway right off our parking lot. I hear an aircraft at max power, look over and see an RV doing a high speed pass at about 100' (It's Saturday and the tower is closed). He gets about 1/3rd the way down the runway and does a high G/steep bank turn back to downwind and final. Am I supposed to be impressed? What were the peoples comments that watched? "What a hot dog". Come on folks, save it, and have more respect for our passion.
 
I have now found out, that we have a "stigma"...........and just accept the fact, and live with it, or do not purchase an RV. Kind of like Harley's, I was told. Hadn't heard of this for the last 17 years, or any where I've been.....but found out yesterday (from the informed ones). :eek:

Okay............I'm still ticked...:mad:

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I dont know anybody who bashes RVs...All Ive ever heard are people singing there praises...and who does'nt like to see a screaming low pass with a sweet G crank that melds together the downwind, base and final all in one.

No offense intended sir and with respect to you, with a safe enviroment, I'm with the hotshot.
 
L.Adamson said:
I have now found out, that we have a "stigma"...........and just accept the fact, and live with it, or do not purchase an RV. Kind of like Harley's, I was told. Hadn't heard of this for the last 17 years, or any where I've been.....but found out yesterday (from the informed ones). :eek:

Okay............I'm still ticked...:mad:

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...

Okay, but what is your opinion of the pilot / anecdote the OP just described?
 
taverroi said:
I dont know anybody who bashes RVs...All Ive ever heard are people singing there praises...and who does'nt like to see a screaming low pass with a sweet G crank that melds together the downwind, base and final all in one.

No offense intended sir and with respect to you, with a safe enviroment, I'm with the hotshot.
Click to expand...

Ok, I am with you.
 
taverroi said:
I dont know anybody who bashes RVs...All Ive ever heard are people singing there praises...and who does'nt like to see a screaming low pass with a sweet G crank that melds together the downwind, base and final all in one.

No offense intended sir and with respect to you, with a safe enviroment, I'm with the hotshot.
Click to expand...

See the red board at the AOPA. It's been a total bash session for a week. However, I too, like low passes, depending on the conditions.........such as traffic, etc.

A few weeks ago, at an airport near me....it was "towered" sanctioned for a 2-place Lancair 360 to do just as above. He got permission for two passes. It was great.........and helped make up for the years I've missed at Reno.

However.......I'm still not in agreement with a few RV's doing an OB, while traffic is flying the standard old 45's.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
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L.Adamson said:
A few weeks ago, at an airport near me....it was "towered" sanctioned for a 2-place Lancair 360 to do just as above. He got permission for two passes. It was great.........and helped make up for the years I've missed at Reno.
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I'm not going to give an opinion one way or the other on doing low passes, but (and I do you that you probably know this, but many don't), getting tower clearance to do something does not allow one to violate the FARs, it only provides a nice witness for the FAA inspector to question. There is a ton of of case law demonstrating this.
 
FWIW, I have never thought of this stuff as showing off or trying to impress anybody. It's fun and I actually like watching people do it because I just like watching planes fly. I am not "impressed", though.
 
taverroi said:
I dont know anybody who bashes RVs...All Ive ever heard are people singing there praises...and who does'nt like to see a screaming low pass with a sweet G crank that melds together the downwind, base and final all in one.

No offense intended sir and with respect to you, with a safe enviroment, I'm with the hotshot.
Click to expand...

With all due respect....I am afraid you are out of touch with reality. RV's and their pilots are under a strong magnifying glass and what many (GA, the FAA, and the NTSB) are seeing ain't pretty due to the action of a few of our brethren. I saw one at breakfast this morning......

We push the envelope at our own risk. I prefer to be a good citizen and hope to be able to fly another day(s).
 
Sam Buchanan said:
With all due respect....I am afraid you are out of touch with reality. RV's and their pilots are under a strong magnifying glass and what many (GA, the FAA, and the NTSB) are seeing ain't pretty due to the action of a few of our brethren. I saw one at breakfast this morning......

We push the envelope at our own risk. I prefer to be a good citizen and hope to be able to fly another day(s).
Click to expand...

I dont know. I think I'm pretty in touch with this reality. All that I know and love about flying is tied up in my RV and flying it..Other peoples actions I cant control and am not responsible for...What I do know is that I am a "good citizen" and I still say.."in a safe enviroment, I'm with the hotshot".
 
Jamie said:
I'm not going to give an opinion one way or the other on doing low passes, but (and I do you that you probably know this, but many don't), getting tower clearance to do something does not allow one to violate the FARs, it only provides a nice witness for the FAA inspector to question. There is a ton of of case law demonstrating this.
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I would like an opinion FAR wise, on the flyby I mentioned......if someone has exact info. A Tower. No other aircraft in pattern. Runway is located on a penninsula with no housing underneath. Spectators were more than 500' away. I wouldn't consider it aerobatic in nature, either.

L.Adamson
 
It is human nature to want to demonstrate the exceptional performance bestowed upon us by the designer...........

However,

It must be done in a responsible and appropriate manner.

We have many totally uncontrolled strips and fields in the UK and local rules, arrangements etc are usually abided with. If someone oversteps the mark, usually one or more of the strip users will have a quiet word.

I have done plenty of fast low passes in our RV7, however it has been done as a missed approach with the appropriate calls being made, an approach to say 50' followed by a short portion level and then climb away. It is controlled and IMHO responsible where appropriate.

I have been asked by a local controlled airport to 'show us your new aeroplane' and did similar.

Let me offer a real teaser.........

You are at your local field and hear the sound of a Merlin, the rise of an aeroplane noise and step out to see a Mustang whip down the strip at 50' and a couple hundred knots.

Where does he stand in the argument ?

If inappropriate behaviour is being exercised, tackle the person involved and change his ways.

If what is being done is an expression of the joy and passion shared by many of us, revel in it and enjoy.
 
Part 91.303 Aerobatic flight....

L.Adamson said:
I would like an opinion FAR wise, on the flyby I mentioned......if someone has exact info. A Tower. No other aircraft in pattern. Runway is located on a peninsula with no housing underneath. Spectators were more than 500' away. I wouldn't consider it aerobatic in nature, either.
L.Adamson
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91.303(c) Within the lateral boundaries of the surface areas of Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E airspace designated for an airport.

"For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight."

This is the wording. Interpret it as you will. But remember, it's FAA's interpretation that matters.
 
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[/COLOR][/B]
"For the purposes of this section, aerobatic flight means an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft's attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight."

.[/QUOTE]


Sounds like the definition of a real RV pilot to me.
 
Maybe this is why I like RV's

L.Adamson said:
I have now found out, that we have a "stigma"...........and just accept the fact, and live with it, or do not purchase an RV. Kind of like Harley's, I was told. Hadn't heard of this for the last 17 years, or any where I've been.....but found out yesterday (from the informed ones). :eek:

Okay............I'm still ticked...:mad:

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/hellcatgib/P1050580.jpg

Been riding Harley for a long time....
 
I don't' get it

Deleted - it was validly pointed out my comments did not relate to this thread.
 
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Good..

I hope my last post got dumped. I feel better...and don't have to edit myself.
Woops ... wrong thread. So I dumped it from the other one.

L.Adamson
 
Careless and Reckless Operations

I just want to jump in here in the hopes of imparting some experience about what the FAA's position is on low passes, sharp pull ups, etc.

We have a situation here in central Florida in one of our aviation communities where there is one individual who apparently takes great pleasure in turning folks into the FAA for certain activities at his home field. Those of us here know about this situation and stay away from this field or at the very least we are forewarned about the potential consequences. This guy will sit out in his yard with his video camera and film anyone who makes a low pass, non-standard pattern, etc. He then files a complaint at the Orlando FSDO and sends them the video. There have been numerous violations issued because of this individual--some are legitimate, others borderline, but who needs this? The FAA takes the position that if they receive a complaint, they must act, and oftentimes it results in a violation under the "careless and reckless" category, if not outright aerobatics. So, there you have it, we have documented cases here where the FAA will violate someone for a low pass. Their position is that this is "careless and reckless" operation, albeit usually someone has to issue a well documented complaint before they will issue a violation.

I guess what I would take away from this is that anytime you make a low pass and high-g pullup, or just a low pass, you are potentially risking your ticket. Most times you will get away with it, but why risk getting into a hassle with the FAA?

I hope this information will help someone avoid a potential problem some day! :)
 
RVG8tor said:
How about being "green" I can complete more touch and goes and burn less fuel using the closed pattern than flying the giant box pattern. There is some food for thought, after all fuel is not getting any cheaper. Perhaps the entire civilian system needs to transition to the overhead.

See you at Initial.
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If we add in the outside pattern concept along with the closed pattern, then we'd have the best of both worlds. Those who want to fly the long drawn out straighten approach can while the rest of us are in the closed pattern. Just don't pull closed or break with someone inside of 2 miles (at trainer speeds).


RVG8tor said:
See you at Initial.
Click to expand...

Me too.

-Jim
 
I've been flying my -7A for over 6 years. I don't fly overhead approaches, but don't have a quibble with those who do. However, at non-towered airports, I do fly it much in the same manner as I fly the high performance turboprops and jets that I fly for work.

Meaning, I use straight-in approaches whenever I can. Initial radio call is 5 miles out, if no other traffic is heard, I continue and announce "2 mile final runway XX". Then another announcement "1 mile final runway XX".

If other traffic is heard or seen, I re-evaluate the efficacy of the straight-in approach and proceed accordingly.

I've found that with a little planning in my -7A, I steadily decelerate from cruise speed and reach a 65 knot approach speed with full flaps by the time I reach a 1/2 mile final. And that's with a fixed pitch prop.

I just hope that those who use overhead approaches are thoughtful enough to consider other airplanes and use verbiage in their radio calls that even the most inexperienced pilot can understand. That's why I announce a specific distance. For example: A VFR pilot isn't going to understand when you announce, "N12345 is crossing (insert the final approach fix name here) inbound on the ILS runway XX approach." It's far better to announce "N12345 5 mile final runway XX."

I saw this first hand when I observed a tower controller trying to get an airplane to stop and not cross a runway. He said, "N12345, hold short of runway 30" three times with no effect, even though the pilot acknowledged it. Finally, the controller said, "N12345 stop." And guess what, he stopped.

Fly safe,

Mike
 
Lots of talk here about overhead approaches. My initial post described the pilot doing a low pass at less that 100' AGL....
 
RVG8tor said:
I have been reading all the realated posts but... Anyone who knows how to fly the overhead pattern also knows that it is a perfect way to enter the downwind even with traffic entering at the 45.
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But the majority of pilots at civilian airport don't know how to fly the overhead pattern. Most don't even know what it is. And that is why all the talk about how its better, how its safer, how everyone should be doing it is nothing more than a very insufficient defense of a practice that gives a black eye to the entire RV community.

And that black eye is something that you either care about or you do not. If you don't care about it, then there really isn't any point in discussing it further.
 
L.Adamson said:
I have now found out, that we have a "stigma"...........and just accept the fact, and live with it, or do not purchase an RV. Kind of like Harley's, I was told. Hadn't heard of this for the last 17 years, or any where I've been.....but found out yesterday (from the informed ones). :eek:

Okay............I'm still ticked...:mad:

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Click to expand...

I first heard about this "stigma" four or five years ago when I was building my airplane. A co-worker, who was an avid GA pilot, and kept an airplane at a local uncontrolled GA airport, laughingly mentioned the quiet derision of the local RV "top gun wannabes" that was very much alive at that airport. This is not a "new" issue, by any means.
 
Does anyone remember the days when you could come to VAF and read respectfully submitted opinions, clearly stated facts, and honest, open discussions - without all the emotions, all the **** (which means that you can't think of a decent word), and all of the clearly "oh yeah, who's going to make me!!" bullying behavior?

I liked that - it was what set this place apart. We have now had a solid week of threads which has done nothing but divide us. We have posters with only a few posts (and no name in their profile, or signature in their posts) making broad acrimonious statements. Every thread other than one asking a specific building question devolves into an argument about behavior.

And no folks, the Moderators can't fix it without being called out as draconian.

If you want VAF to become a swamp, then keep it up. One thing I am absolutely certain of - you are not going to change a person's mind by arguing with them on the internet. You just poison the atmosphere for everyone.

(If you HAVE to post yet another vote for or against the Overhead break, why not do it over on that thread. This thread is about low passes!)

Paul
 
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Pat Hatch said:
I just want to jump in here in the hopes of imparting some experience about what the FAA's position is on low passes, sharp pull ups, etc.

We have a situation here in central Florida in one of our aviation communities where there is one individual who apparently takes great pleasure in turning folks into the FAA for certain activities at his home field. Those of us here know about this situation and stay away from this field or at the very least we are forewarned about the potential consequences. This guy will sit out in his yard with his video camera and film anyone who makes a low pass, non-standard pattern, etc. He then files a complaint at the Orlando FSDO and sends them the video. There have been numerous violations issued because of this individual--some are legitimate, others borderline, but who needs this? The FAA takes the position that if they receive a complaint, they must act, and oftentimes it results in a violation under the "careless and reckless" category, if not outright aerobatics. So, there you have it, we have documented cases here where the FAA will violate someone for a low pass. Their position is that this is "careless and reckless" operation, albeit usually someone has to issue a well documented complaint before they will issue a violation.

I guess what I would take away from this is that anytime you make a low pass and high-g pullup, or just a low pass, you are potentially risking your ticket. Most times you will get away with it, but why risk getting into a hassle with the FAA?

I hope this information will help someone avoid a potential problem some day! :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Pat,

I have had to deal with two noise/low flight complaints from an airpark neighbor in the last month. The first went straight to the FSDO, but at least he called me directly for the second complaint. These are the first official complaints we have had for 6+ years.

Both boiled down to a combination of low passes/non-standard patterns.

What might be legal (or possibly in a grey area) might also not go down well with airport neighbors - and they are the ones that can shut us down as airports.

Also, thanks Glenn for the reminder to "Fly Neighborly" - what appears to you like a good, safe pull-up might easily get reported by a neighbor as aerobatic flight. It's an argument with the FAA we just don't need to have.
 
so you want to make so low passes?

Bring your RV to the Tennessee Valley Air Race and Pumpkin Speed Dash on Oct 29th. The airspace is waivered and if you get briefed, you can make several low passes. We will clock you and record your average speed. Other aviation enthusiasts will be watching. Someone will probably video your passes for later enjoyment. Enter the cross country race and compete for one of several cash prizes being provided by Aircraft Spruce and Specialties. After the racing is over, you can try to win a cash prize pot by dropping a pumpkin onto an outhouse. ( we have a cessna you can use for that).

CM
 
Thank Goodness for Reason

Glad that guys like Paul, Mel, Jamie, and Pat Hatch offer a voice of reason and I agree with all of you. Careless operation in an around an airport, including low passes, is just asking for trouble...and a visit from the FAA.

It seems that there are 2 types of pilots: Those who get into aviation because they like the freedom of the air, altitude and the peaceful feeling of seeing this hectic world from above..and those that get into aviation for the sole purpose of impressing their social friends on the ground with feats of adrenaline induced daring. I know which type of pilot I am striving to be...and which kind I like to avoid.

In my opinion (which is only worth what you paid for it!), if you are not a commercial airshow performer engaged in your business, any aviation maneuver executed primarily for the enjoyment of someone on the ground, is a step away from goodness, probably illegal, and likely dangerous to yourself and other aviators.
 
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I used to do low passes.

Then I lost a friend to one. He died in front of his son and a bunch of friends.

Won't bore you with the details but just remember that you can stall an aircraft before you over-g it at certain speeds.

I love to see pilots who are masters of their machines and can make them look good down low. But I don't do it anymore.
 
Closed pull up

gbrasch said:
Lots of talk here about overhead approaches. My initial post described the pilot doing a low pass at less that 100' AGL....
Click to expand...

What you described in your first post was called "pulling closed" (Pull up to closed downwind), at a towered airport you would "Request Closed" if approved you do a climbing turn to downwind,this maneuver might be perceived as aggressive. After a low approach one advances power (usually full) to accelerate in a slight climb gaining airspeed to trade off for altitude during the pull up to downwind.

This is not a show boat maneuver, the person you saw may actually be in the military and was flying their RV that day. They more than likely are familiar with this type of pattern.

Now I am not saying this was the correct pattern at a noise sensitive airport, NOTAMs should provide any restrictions as far as airspeeds and patterns are concerned.

I hope this sheds a little knowledge about what you witnessed, I was not there so it may in fact have been a bit non standard but what you describe in the first post sounds like they "pulled closed".

Cheers
 
Thanks

RVG8tor said:
What you described in your first post was called "pulling closed" (Pull up to closed downwind), at a towered airport you would "Request Closed" if approved you do a climbing turn to downwind,this maneuver might be perceived as aggressive. After a low approach one advances power (usually full) to accelerate in a slight climb gaining airspeed to trade off for altitude during the pull up to downwind.

This is not a show boat maneuver, the person you saw may actually be in the military and was flying their RV that day. They more than likely are familiar with this type of pattern.

Now I am not saying this was the correct pattern at a noise sensitive airport, NOTAMs should provide any restrictions as far as airspeeds and patterns are concerned.

I hope this sheds a little knowledge about what you witnessed, I was not there so it may in fact have been a bit non standard but what you describe in the first post sounds like they "pulled closed".

Cheers
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Thanks Nemo - I learned something new today, which means it's another great day!
 
Further thoughts on low passes...

Yes, I used to do low passes too. (This is beginning to sound like an AA meeting!)

In the early days of RVs when they were still a rare sighting, I would get asked a lot to make a low pass. I remember one day flying on a cross-country in my RV-4 when I got a call from Lancaster tower in PA (I was transitioning their airspace), and they asked if I would make a low pass down their runway so they could see an RV up close. Of course I obliged, you would too, probably. No big deal. Then I would be at a local fly-in or breakfast, and I would get asked to make a low pass on departure for the "folks." So I would do it, right?

But then I got to thinking, especially when I would observe other RVs doing it, wow, that looks kind of unprofessional from this perspective on the ground. When I heard about the FAA violations for "careless and reckless" low passes, I just decided that I didn't want to add to the general malaise arising about RV guys being hot dogs anymore. Keep in mind, this was years ago. Now I see that there is indeed a lot of bad feeling out there about RV's as evidenced by the thread last week on the AOPA Red Board. A lot of it was misplaced, could be a product of envy, some bullying, but also some of it legit. Time to face the music about this. I would just say, to the extent that you might be contributing to this malaise, please just re-think the issue in light of this perhaps undeserved reputation that we seem to be getting.

The other side of this is that we have our airplanes because they are fun and give us a sense of freedom. I would never want to discourage that. We just need to balance this a little against what perceptions we may be creating out there. That is, if you care. I think you do. :eek:
 
Not just RVs

Low passes and hotdog flying is not just a phenomenon confined to RVs. I will admit, however that the power and speed of the RVs bring more attention to them.
Anyone who has attended the Recklaw fly in in north Texas every October can see just about every type of plane doing endless low passes. So much so that it is difficult to even get in or leave the airport.
Last time I was there, although there were some RV passes, most were done by other types. There was a bonanza and cardinal that wouldn't quit, being particularly dangerous to themselves and everyone else.
Whether we like it or not, our RVs stand out in the crowd and as a result, we are often thrown into the role of aviation ambassador, if you will, and our actions often speak for us. Sometimes good, sometimesnot so good, often depending on who is watching.
Good judgement is key in safe flying, but no atter what you do, you can't please everyone all the time.
As for me, I like to see a good pass down the runway, if its appropriate and safely done, but I don't like to see buzz jobs, especially done on the spur of the moment.
 
I hesitate to get involved in this discussion as a non-USA citizen. However, I think I have some credentials - 2500hrs RAF including 1500hrs F4, QFI,IRE 15,000hrs total, L1011, A330, A340, B747, IRE/TRE..... So, I think I have some kudos to express an opinion.

There seem to be 3 issues:

Why do it?
Is it legal?
Is it sensible?

The low level pitch into the circuit is known in the RAF as a "run and break". The idea was to approach the airfield low-level and pitch into the circuit to avoid SAM threats etc. Even when I was in the RAF (1988) this was already becoming obsolete due to local airfield defenses - come in fast and low and you risk getting shot down as a threat. So, you came in in designated corridors, at low speed. In any case, in normal operation, it was never below 250' and most times due to local noise abatement, not below 500'.

In the UK, you are not permitted to fly within 500' of the ground, any object or aircraft unless on T/O or an approach to land. There are exceptions for formation or display flying. I don't know what the USA rules are but I guess they are similar. Hence the 100' run and break would be illegal in UK. Of course, you can dress it up as a low appproach and go-around.........

Low level and display flying require specific training. Anyone who thinks they can "beat up" an airfield at 100' without training seriously needs to think again. They simply don't know what they need to know . Even pilots who are trained to fly such manouevres screw up with a regularity that you wouldn't think possible - don't do it - please! With all my experience, I wouldn't do it. Now, the pilot involved may well have been military trained but in a civilain environment, it's still not something I would do. OK, I am going to labour the point here. Unauthorized, low level , unplanned, non-practiced beat ups are dangerous and not acceptable. Not only do you put yourself at risk, but you denigrade the whole GA community, whatever country.

Now, the level 1000' pitch into an oval circuit is a different matter and, I believe is the easiest, safest and most efficient way of joining a circuit and landing. I haven't flown light aircraft for 25 years and when I finish building and fly I know that the spam-can flying huge circuits is going to annoy me immensely.....
 
Those must have been halcyon days

Does anyone remember the days when you could come to VAF and read respectfully submitted opinions, clearly stated facts, and honest, open discussions - without all the emotions, all the **** (which means that you can't think of a decent word), and all of the clearly "oh yeah, who's going to make me!!" bullying behavior? - Ironflight
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No, but I've only been reading this site for about eight years or so. When were those halcyon days? they sound great!
 
Out of shear curiosity and at the risk of being off-topic (as I know this only pertains to RVs), do military airplanes have to operate under the same rules when flying into and out of civilian towered airports? I see the exact same operations that the original poster described going on all day everyday at KAFW with military aircraft. Just curious....
 
Perhaps surprising

Most people have no idea what an airplane called RV is. Is this some small elite group that is reported to be bashing RVs?

Bob Axsom
 
Just Curious...

Post #1 states "RV doing a low pass at about 100' " then Post #27 states
"a low pass at less that 100' AGL". What was the reference used for these quoted measurements? Why are they different? Maybe it was at 125' or maybe even 200'? :)
 
Jeff A said:
Out of shear curiosity and at the risk of being off-topic (as I know this only pertains to RVs), do military airplanes have to operate under the same rules when flying into and out of civilian towered airports? I see the exact same operations that the original poster described going on all day everyday at KAFW with military aircraft. Just curious....
Click to expand...

Yes, except that sometimes they have waivers to exceed speed limits. For instance the T-38 is waivered to 300kias below 10kft. In general, military aircraft are subject to all the same rules that civilian aircraft are when operating anywhere in the NAS.
 
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I don't believe the low pass is the problem but the high-g pull-up at the departure end which cause the trouble, am I wrong?

Certainly the low-pass in and of itself can be a useful maneuver to verify landing and runway conditions. I WILL NOT land at a grass field I haven't been to recently without a low pass first... and often do this to uncontrolled fields when windsocks are hard to see from the air.
 
High "G"

LifeofReiley said:
Post #1 states "RV doing a low pass at about 100' " then Post #27 states
"a low pass at less that 100' AGL". What was the reference used for these quoted measurements? Why are they different? Maybe it was at 125' or maybe even 200'? :)
Click to expand...

One of the posts talked about a "high G " pull up. How can they tell what G load was used? What constitutes "high" G, 5,3 or 6? I bet no more that 2 G was used, no more that a 60 degree bank turn requires to hold level flight.

A climbing turn to down wind is basically a chandel, a maneuver taught to instrument pilots or it used to be when I was trained.
 
Low pass

Wasn?t sure what kind of plane was taking off at the air field behind my house, wasn?t familiar with the sound. It was perhaps 500 AGL when I walked outside to check it out. Never climbed above 800? while making a lazy turn back to base. Lined up with the runway, then descended to probably 200? and accelerated to make what was obviously going to be a very high speed pass. At the tower, it nosed up into a climb that would have impressed a fighter pilot. I?d guess it was a couple of minutes before it disappeared into blue skies above me. As long as I could see it, it never leveled out. And no it wasn?t an RV, it was a B-52 leaving Ellington Field (near Houston) the day after an air show. Was it wise? Legal? Maybe not. But it was pretty cool.
 
Moondog said:
Wasn?t sure what kind of plane was taking off at the air field behind my house, wasn?t familiar with the sound. It was perhaps 500 AGL when I walked outside to check it out. Never climbed above 800? while making a lazy turn back to base. Lined up with the runway, then descended to probably 200? and accelerated to make what was obviously going to be a very high speed pass. At the tower, it nosed up into a climb that would have impressed a fighter pilot. I?d guess it was a couple of minutes before it disappeared into blue skies above me. As long as I could see it, it never leveled out. And no it wasn?t an RV, it was a B-52 leaving Ellington Field (near Houston) the day after an air show. Was it wise? Legal? Maybe not. But it was pretty cool.
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Most likely doing a practice circling approach. It did a low approach because the runway isn't wide enough for our tip gear (unless you consider one foot per side to be adequate margin). It climbed like a bat out of **** because there is an abundance of extra thrust in the BUFF, especially when they are light weight, which he probably was if he was just leaving an airshow and heading back home. Glad you enjoyed the show.
 
Perception

Folks, this is a matter of perception. Is such an act necessary under normal arrival procedures? I will submit that it is not. It really doesn't matter if it is legal or not.

We never know who is hanging around a given airport. Why do something that can bring attention to ourselves? Notice I didn't say "negative" attention.

There are four factions involved. (Actually more if we wanted to take it farther) 1) Pilots 2) RV pilots 3) Non RV pilots 4) Non pilot public. We have heard recently from the AOPA forums that we (RV pilots) have established a less than positive reputation with non RV pilots. Right or wrong, deserved or not, it is there. I've heard it around our community.

The unknown is how the public views us. I'm sure they don't know the specifics of different aircraft, but they can view differences in behavior and procedures. As an example, I live at an air park. It is P19 in Chandler, AZ. Check it out on Google Earth. It is a very unusual air park in that it is very urban. We have large tract residential areas on 3 borders.

On one occasion, I was talking to one of these neighbors. He asked why, on occasion, do some airplanes look like they are landing but go down the runway "like a bat out of hell?" The question and the tone were clearly unfavorable.

Occasionally, a couple of our Glasair or Lancair owners will make make high speed passes. I'm not grouping them into plane category because I know the guys. Just mentioning the plane for the next comment. Point being that the Cessna 182's or Cherokee's don't do such passes.

Also, no need to pick nits on the altitude or the high G pull up. You know what he is describing. Both Glenn and I are medical helicopter pilots. We have done extensive autorotation training. Flare altitude is critical for survival. I will be willing to bet that we can accurately guess the altitude of an aircraft (AGL) below 200' within 10'. So in the original post, he mentions 100'. I could have been 90 or 110.' Again, don't get technical on the altitude.:D

In summary, in this time in history, we need to self evaluate our every action. If there is any doubt as to its appropriateness, DON'T DO IT.
 
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