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Minimum safe runway length

C

Camillo

Well Known Member
I am based in an airstrip 50 minutes far from home (2300' long).

I was offered to buy a share on a field with a 1500' runway, closer to my home.

Both are grass.

I was wondering if with an RV9A the shorter runway would be a problem or if with a few hours (i.e.: approx. 20 hours) one can safely land.

I understand that this depends on personal skills (I have 250 hours on GA airplanes on complex), but for a medium skilled pilot would this be a problem?

Thanks.
Camillo
 
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It depends on a lot of things. I've been flying my -6 off a 1500' strip here in Texas for over 15 years. Initially with a "tired" 150 hp engine and wood prop and grass. But I have clear approaches at both ends. Now even with asphalt many RV pilots still won't come in here. It has mostly to do with your skills and comfort level. Another factor is runway orientation. Sometimes a strong crosswind can really be a problem.
 
1500 is plenty, provided that you don't have to clear any obstacles on the approach end. Still, you probably would do well with the C/S prop. The -9, as you know, likes to float. You just have to pay attention to approach speeds and you'll have no trouble at all.
 
Camillo,

I'll probably get flamed for my opinion, so you take it as such....only my opinion. It is worth what you paid for it. NOTHING!!!!

Unless you are a truly aggressive pilot that has practiced and learned everything about your airplane, you probably ought to stay on the longer runway for a while. Take your airplane up and learn the lower end of the slow flight envelope very well. Mark a 1500 foot distance on the 2300 foot strip and practice safely landing many, many times within that 1500 foot mark before you go try it on the "real thing". Practice the 1500 foot landings in all wind conditions and be very comfortable landing there within the 1500 foot mark. There is going to be less room for error at the shorter strip and the 50 minute drive to the 2300 foot strip will seem very inexpensive once you've wadded your airplane up in a ball. If you understand your airplane and can wear it like a glove, you can operate out of the 1500 foot strip without any problems. Learn your airplane well and then make the move. Good luck.

David Watson
49FD
 
DEWATSON said:
Camillo,

I'll probably get flamed for my opinion, so you take it as such....only my opinion. It is worth what you paid for it. NOTHING!!!!

Unless you are a truly aggressive pilot that has practiced and learned everything about your airplane, you probably ought to stay on the longer runway for a while. Take your airplane up and learn the lower end of the slow flight envelope very well. Mark a 1500 foot distance on the 2300 foot strip and practice safely landing many, many times within that 1500 foot mark before you go try it on the "real thing". Practice the 1500 foot landings in all wind conditions and be very comfortable landing there within the 1500 foot mark. There is going to be less room for error at the shorter strip and the 50 minute drive to the 2300 foot strip will seem very inexpensive once you've wadded your airplane up in a ball. If you understand your airplane and can wear it like a glove, you can operate out of the 1500 foot strip without any problems. Learn your airplane well and then make the move. Good luck.

David Watson
49FD
Click to expand...

That's perfect advice! One thing for sure, when you are landing at a 1500' runway, it's going to look really, really short when you are at pattern altitude.
 
1500'

David Watson is on the money, great words of wisdon. What's the saying, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots". Use common sense and do not try to "mess with mother nature" she will win in the end...:eek:
 
No flames

DEWATSON said:
Camillo,

I'll probably get flamed for my opinion, so you take it as such....only my opinion. It is worth what you paid for it. NOTHING!!!!

Unless you are a truly aggressive pilot that has practiced and learned everything about your airplane, you probably ought to stay on the longer runway for a while. Take your airplane up and learn the lower end of the slow flight envelope very well. Mark a 1500 foot distance on the 2300 foot strip and practice safely landing many, many times within that 1500 foot mark before you go try it on the "real thing". Practice the 1500 foot landings in all wind conditions and be very comfortable landing there within the 1500 foot mark. There is going to be less room for error at the shorter strip and the 50 minute drive to the 2300 foot strip will seem very inexpensive once you've wadded your airplane up in a ball. If you understand your airplane and can wear it like a glove, you can operate out of the 1500 foot strip without any problems. Learn your airplane well and then make the move. Good luck.

David Watson
49FD
Click to expand...

I agree with David, but want to add two words, density altitude. I don't know the elevation or summer temperatures at the field in question but remember that temperature above "standard" can triple takeoff and landing distance. An extreme example, but departing Ironflight's recent birthday bash, I calculated my takeoff distance to be right at 1500 feet at a density altitude of 9000 feet.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I operated a -9a with a C/S prop of of 1020' quite succesfully (except when it was soft). You can see it here.
You need to know what an aiming point is, and be able to control the speed accurately. Now its the home of my -4. You also need to know when to throw it away, though I have only gone around twice in the -4 and never in the -9a. Both times because of the prevailing cross wind.

'Circuits' below my signature will let you approach in the -4 and on the link above ( You can see it here.) there is an approach in a Supercub. The landing distance per spec is 425' for the -4 and 450' for the -9a at gross. I cant achieve those numbers but I put that down to turbulance in the last 200 yards before the fence.

One thing, DONT try doing it 'til you KNOW you can get it down in the required distance with a reasonable margin at another location with a similar layout.

If it is close to home its a no brainer, but learn first! Altitude and density altitude are of course crucial, see the post below. I am at 140 ASL.
 
What's the TFFMMIHHC for? I'm assuming an acronym for some runup checklist? It's in the video on the Circuits link.
 
Trim
Fuel
Flaps
Mixture
Mags
Instruments
Hatches
Harnesses
Controls

and you didn't ask, but for 2nd subsequent flights aerotowing, just the first four.
 
When I was a 400 hour CFI, I started flying a -6A, and it was all completely off of a very short grass strip with obstacles on both sides.

As long as you're disciplined with approach speeds, it's easy. We had cones on either side of the runway marking the no later than touch down area. Which I think was 300'. If you floated long, you went around. For early mornings when the grass was wet I'd personally bump that in.
 
The airplane is certainly capable, so the answer depends largely on the pilot. I've seen pilots run off the end of 5000 foot runways and I've see pilots landing the same airplane on a 1000 foot strip.

Watch out for hot and heavy. And watch out for tailwinds. 5 kts of tailwind adds 10% to your take off roll.
 
DEWATSON said:
Camillo,

I'll probably get flamed for my opinion, so you take it as such....only my opinion. It is worth what you paid for it. NOTHING!!!!

Unless you are a truly aggressive pilot that has practiced and learned everything about your airplane, you probably ought to stay on the longer runway for a while. Take your airplane up and learn the lower end of the slow flight envelope very well. Mark a 1500 foot distance on the 2300 foot strip and practice safely landing many, many times within that 1500 foot mark before you go try it on the "real thing". Practice the 1500 foot landings in all wind conditions and be very comfortable landing there within the 1500 foot mark. There is going to be less room for error at the shorter strip and the 50 minute drive to the 2300 foot strip will seem very inexpensive once you've wadded your airplane up in a ball. If you understand your airplane and can wear it like a glove, you can operate out of the 1500 foot strip without any problems. Learn your airplane well and then make the move. Good luck.

David Watson
49FD
Click to expand...

Excellent commentary on the subject, David.

That being said, I know a pilot living near Joplin, MO flying his 9A out of a 1000' field next to his home. It sure can be done successfully but one needs to get spun up and it helps to have a CS prop.

I had a chance to fly into that strip a while back but passed on it as the wind was not quite right plus it was hot. There's a good hard surface nearby and it seemed a prudent alternative that day. I checked out the owner in my airplane before he flew his - but not on that strip. He checked himself out on it going solo. :)
 
Los of Good Advice Here

Some of it bears repeating:
1. Control your speed -PRECISELY. I use 55kts for short field work in my 9A. If you can't maintain your target speed - GO AROUND
2. Decide what your air point should be - If your wheels aren't going to touch down at your aim point - GO AROUND
3. Make sure you understand effects of density altitude.

Biggest problems I see with many new pilots (and a lot of long time pilots as well) are poor speed control (way too fast) and a strong desire to get the wheels on the ground, even if it's halfway down the runway. Always be ready to GO AROUND. Do it by the numbers, and the only time you'll touch your brakes is to turn around.
Terry, CFI
RV-9A N323TP
 
Camillo,

I can't say for a FP prop but a 9A with a C/S prop is certainly capable of operating from a 1,500 ft strip although you may want to limit your T/O and landing weight depending on density altitude. I operate my 9A from my somewhat challenging (low obstacles on short approach) 1420 ft airstrip at 4,250 ft altitude and can usually comfortably stop in about 2/3 to 3/4 of the strip. As others have said, you must practice on longer strips and have a very good feel for the slow speed characteristics of the aircraft first. You can read the techniques I use in posts #3 & #8 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=42365

Fin
9A
0-320 Hartzell.
 
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Thanks to everybody. So, it seems it is possible.
I will start on the longer strip and then practice on the 1500' reference point.
The shorter strip is 600' altitude.
 
Short fields

Camillo said:
Thanks to everybody. So, it seems it is possible.
I will start on the longer strip and then practice on the 1500' reference point.
The shorter strip is 600' altitude.
Click to expand...

With practice and accurate air speed control you should be able (with no obstacles, wind or wet) to consistently land a 9-A in less than 600'. I can land mine in less than 500'. so your 1500' runway is huge and no need to worry.
Regards, Allan:)
 
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Be careful

1500 is adequte but be careful after a rain or anytime the grass is wet. You will be surprised at how little braking action you can have on wet grass.
 
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