Van's Air Force
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slider vs tip up
- Thread starter 912ry
- Start date
Robert,
Been flying my tip-up since 1993. Would not change a thing. The tip-up incorporates a canopy release. However, you cannot install the "struts" is you want this feature to be effective. I don't know of anyway to get rid of the slider in flight unless you incorporated some kind of quick release pins. You cannot open it in flight because of air pressure.
Come out and take a look at mine and we can discuss the advantages of each. I'm located about 15 miles east of McKinney. 972-784-7544
Been flying my tip-up since 1993. Would not change a thing. The tip-up incorporates a canopy release. However, you cannot install the "struts" is you want this feature to be effective. I don't know of anyway to get rid of the slider in flight unless you incorporated some kind of quick release pins. You cannot open it in flight because of air pressure.
Come out and take a look at mine and we can discuss the advantages of each. I'm located about 15 miles east of McKinney. 972-784-7544
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
This is probably not the answer you wanted, but consider using the "Search" function of this forum to view lots of previous posts on this topic.
You will be happy with whichever canopy you build.
Dave Fogarty
Active Member
Canopy Choice - Instrument Panel Access
Hello Sam -
I'm a newbie and first let me say how much I have enjoyed your posts that I have read on this site. Thank you.
I just had my order placed for a 7A slider QB. Here is my question to all and maybe it has come up before so apologies in advance:
Is there a modification that allows easier access to the instruments behind the instrument panel when using the slider canopy option.
Does anyone make an aftermarket mod kit to allow easy access to the instruments? One pic I saw was of a fellow's hinged instrument panel for a 7A slider. Looked nice. I really want to do this well and a rats nest behind the panel is not on for me. Seen too much of that already.
From what I see, the principal benefit of the tip up is easy access to the instruments behind the panel. I've changed enough instruments now in Cessna, Piper and Grumman panels to last a life time. Working on your back is a bummer. This is one of the attractions of the Experimental world - which is why I'm jumping in. No more certificated baffoonery for me. There has to be a solution for the slider crowd too, but where is it - besides a one off design by yours truely?
Hello Sam -
I'm a newbie and first let me say how much I have enjoyed your posts that I have read on this site. Thank you.
I just had my order placed for a 7A slider QB. Here is my question to all and maybe it has come up before so apologies in advance:
Is there a modification that allows easier access to the instruments behind the instrument panel when using the slider canopy option.
Does anyone make an aftermarket mod kit to allow easy access to the instruments? One pic I saw was of a fellow's hinged instrument panel for a 7A slider. Looked nice. I really want to do this well and a rats nest behind the panel is not on for me. Seen too much of that already.
From what I see, the principal benefit of the tip up is easy access to the instruments behind the panel. I've changed enough instruments now in Cessna, Piper and Grumman panels to last a life time. Working on your back is a bummer. This is one of the attractions of the Experimental world - which is why I'm jumping in. No more certificated baffoonery for me. There has to be a solution for the slider crowd too, but where is it - besides a one off design by yours truely?
kentb
Well Known Member
But....
Get use to it, your going to end up on your back and upside down to work behind the panel. I took great pains to build my panel with all the wires being able to disconnect so that I could just unscrew pull it out of the plane and then work it. This in theory is how it ended up, but after I added tubing for the pitot and static connection and tied and clamped everything down, I would not want to unscrew it to move it out of the plane. I just get on my back (with plenty of foam rubber to padding) and slide under.
With that said, I still think that you are ahead if you go with the tipup. I was able to after flying the plane add a in-panel 496 GPS. With the tipup open I was able to cut a hole in the panel and find wires to connect my harness without going downunder.
Kent
On a tipup you end up with complete access, but on a slider you have the space ahead of the panel, up to the next bulkhead that can not be reached without going on your back.DeltaRomeo said:
Get use to it, your going to end up on your back and upside down to work behind the panel.
I took great pains to build my panel with all the wires being able to disconnect so that I could just unscrew pull it out of the plane and then work it. This in theory is how it ended up, but after I added tubing for the pitot and static connection and tied and clamped everything down, I would not want to unscrew it to move it out of the plane. I just get on my back (with plenty of foam rubber to padding) and slide under. With that said, I still think that you are ahead if you go with the tipup. I was able to after flying the plane add a in-panel 496 GPS. With the tipup open I was able to cut a hole in the panel and find wires to connect my harness without going downunder.
Kent
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
Dave, you have already received some excellent replies.
However, in my opinion the greatest benefit of the tipper is not panel access, but the incredible visibility. This has to be about as close to the sensation of sitting out on the wing that is possible in an enclosed aircraft.
Thanks for the kind comment and best wishes for a speedy construction of your plane!
Dave Fogarty
Active Member
Canopy Choice vs. Access
Well you fellows have given me something to think about for sure - as usual.
I am planning a full IFR panel, (I'm a CFI-AI) and my mission is long haul X-C. Thinking steam gages plus a Garmin 530W, backed up with my GpsMap 496 & Zaon + a decent 2 axis autopilot. Clearly panel access is going to be very important. I've had too many G-1000 failures in new build C-172's and C-182's to even consider that route (or the G600, etc). I guess a little of the old tech and a little of the new tech is the perfect mix for me.
Thanks for the help guys. This is going to get exciting. I can hear the mini grinder already !
Mel said:
Well you fellows have given me something to think about for sure - as usual.
I am planning a full IFR panel, (I'm a CFI-AI) and my mission is long haul X-C. Thinking steam gages plus a Garmin 530W, backed up with my GpsMap 496 & Zaon + a decent 2 axis autopilot. Clearly panel access is going to be very important. I've had too many G-1000 failures in new build C-172's and C-182's to even consider that route (or the G600, etc). I guess a little of the old tech and a little of the new tech is the perfect mix for me.
Thanks for the help guys. This is going to get exciting. I can hear the mini grinder already !
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
A vote for sliders
With heat around here in the summer of mid 90's to 105 so often, the majority around here go with the sliders. I see very few tip ups these days, in this part of the country!
After my Oshkosh tip up ride in Van's demo back in 97', I knew that the "slider" was the only way for me! I just have the need to slide that plexi back, without feeling like being stuck in a green house.
And FWIW, my panel does pull out in three separate sections, although I've been on my back working under it many times. Just take a pillow along for short breaks (naps)!
And, do the majority of wiring before installing the top skin!
L.Adamson RV6A- slider
P.S. --- no way "rain" is going to temporarily disable my radio with a slider. I hear it happens sometimes with tips ups.
With heat around here in the summer of mid 90's to 105 so often, the majority around here go with the sliders. I see very few tip ups these days, in this part of the country!
After my Oshkosh tip up ride in Van's demo back in 97', I knew that the "slider" was the only way for me! I just have the need to slide that plexi back, without feeling like being stuck in a green house.
And FWIW, my panel does pull out in three separate sections, although I've been on my back working under it many times. Just take a pillow along for short breaks (naps)!
And, do the majority of wiring before installing the top skin!
L.Adamson RV6A- slider
P.S. --- no way "rain" is going to temporarily disable my radio with a slider. I hear it happens sometimes with tips ups.
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
Panel Access
FWIW I think the panel access advantage is greatly exaggerated. There are a few things short enough that you can get to the back of them directly, but the major stuff still means getting on your back to work behind the sub-panel. Also, as others have pointed out, if there is water on the canopy it goes right in the radios when you open up, just ask DR.
Love my tip-up for the visibility, simplicity and clean look; not for instrument access.
FWIW I think the panel access advantage is greatly exaggerated. There are a few things short enough that you can get to the back of them directly, but the major stuff still means getting on your back to work behind the sub-panel. Also, as others have pointed out, if there is water on the canopy it goes right in the radios when you open up, just ask DR.
Love my tip-up for the visibility, simplicity and clean look; not for instrument access.
John Collier
Active Member
Try both in the summer!
Good point on the summer time heat.
I thought the tip-up was the cats meow until I taxied in one in the middle of July. The ability to taxi with the canopy open became my deciding factor.
This is a decision that only you can make...I would highly recommend you try to get a ride in both types.
Good Luck
J.C.
Good point on the summer time heat.
I thought the tip-up was the cats meow until I taxied in one in the middle of July. The ability to taxi with the canopy open became my deciding factor.
This is a decision that only you can make...I would highly recommend you try to get a ride in both types.
Good Luck
J.C.
fodrv7
Well Known Member
Sanding block aircon.
Flying my tip-up RV-7 in the Aussie summer heat, I solved the cooling problem with a high density foam sanding block. Pretty inexpensive.
On the ground with the canopy cracked, I slid the foam block between the canopy and the canopy rail. It the conopy open about 3" and supplied ample airflow in the cockpit.
Stowed it between the seats for easy access.
Pete.
L.Adamson said:
Flying my tip-up RV-7 in the Aussie summer heat, I solved the cooling problem with a high density foam sanding block. Pretty inexpensive.
On the ground with the canopy cracked, I slid the foam block between the canopy and the canopy rail. It the conopy open about 3" and supplied ample airflow in the cockpit.
Stowed it between the seats for easy access.
Pete.
Sam Buchanan
been here awhile
This is the case for the taildraggers. An -A model tipper (especially the new models) sits at a near level attitude so the water on the opening canopy runs down the forward deck of the plane, not behind the panel.
Pete, I assume you also know that you can park the tipper in the taxi position by resting the safety latch on top of the rollbar. I've never felt sufficiently uncomfortable in our Alabama summer-time sauna to wish I had gone with the highly restrictive, clunky, complicated, ugly slider.
Decision has to be yours. Been flying mine for over 14 years. No water in the radios. OFTEN use the access to the back of the panel. And the -7 has even MORE access than my -6. Heat not a problem here in Texas. Taxi with the canopy open with the safety latch resting on the roll bar. Both tip-up and slider have their advantages.
fodrv7
Well Known Member
Scratches the Paint
Did that initially Mel, but it scrtches the paint even with a piece of UHMW attached.
The foam block provides a bit of shock absorbation for rough fields.
Pete.
Sam Buchanan said:Pete, I assume you also know that you can park the tipper in the taxi position by resting the safety latch on top of the rollbar. I've never felt sufficiently uncomfortable in our Alabama summer-time sauna to wish I had gone with the highly restrictive, clunky, complicated, ugly slider.
Did that initially Mel, but it scrtches the paint even with a piece of UHMW attached.
The foam block provides a bit of shock absorbation for rough fields.
Pete.
Steve A
Well Known Member
Slider vs Tipper
If you access Dan Checkoway's site (www.rvproject.com) he has a company advertising that they make a sliding canopy that also tips. I have a sliding canopy as it gets hot in Louisiana. I cut access panels in the front panel in front of the plexi and in the dash. It requires a thicker panel with platenuts riveted below. With these four remove-able panels, I have access above my instruments.
One poster commented that the slider is hard to build, and now that I have done it, it is right up there with painting a plane, wiring a plane, putting fuel tubing through the gear weldments. It seems difficult and after a little head scratching, satisfying when you "break the code".
If you access Dan Checkoway's site (www.rvproject.com) he has a company advertising that they make a sliding canopy that also tips. I have a sliding canopy as it gets hot in Louisiana. I cut access panels in the front panel in front of the plexi and in the dash. It requires a thicker panel with platenuts riveted below. With these four remove-able panels, I have access above my instruments.
One poster commented that the slider is hard to build, and now that I have done it, it is right up there with painting a plane, wiring a plane, putting fuel tubing through the gear weldments. It seems difficult and after a little head scratching, satisfying when you "break the code".
How tall are you? I believe the roll bar on the slider gives tall people better protection if the plane flips. As I sit in the tip up models, the top of my head is about at the top of the roll bar, and I am only 6'2".
Secondly, the instrument panel access can be rendered a non-issue with appropriate mods. Dann Park built his panel so it folds down into his lap. He can access the entire back of the panel sitting in the seat. I believe it was described in the Chapter 105 newsletter a couple years ago. Visit the 105 website and check back issues for the info.
Basically, he used a piano hinge to mount a sheet of aluminum to the bulkhead about a foot ahead of the panel. This aluminum sheet lies horizontal. The back of this sheet was attached to the bottom edge of the panel. From the end, it looks like the letter "L". It folds down, hinging at the forward bulkhead. Wire bundles run across this sheet of aluminum and up to the back of the panel to the instruments so he has a clean installation. Holes are in the horizontal sheet to allow for cooling. Wish I had a photo.
Since all the work on the backside of the panel can be done sitting down with the work area in your lap, I believe this is an even better setup than the tip up offers. Of course, it could be done on a tip up, also.
Secondly, the instrument panel access can be rendered a non-issue with appropriate mods. Dann Park built his panel so it folds down into his lap. He can access the entire back of the panel sitting in the seat. I believe it was described in the Chapter 105 newsletter a couple years ago. Visit the 105 website and check back issues for the info.
Basically, he used a piano hinge to mount a sheet of aluminum to the bulkhead about a foot ahead of the panel. This aluminum sheet lies horizontal. The back of this sheet was attached to the bottom edge of the panel. From the end, it looks like the letter "L". It folds down, hinging at the forward bulkhead. Wire bundles run across this sheet of aluminum and up to the back of the panel to the instruments so he has a clean installation. Holes are in the horizontal sheet to allow for cooling. Wish I had a photo.
Since all the work on the backside of the panel can be done sitting down with the work area in your lap, I believe this is an even better setup than the tip up offers. Of course, it could be done on a tip up, also.
