What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

All You Want to Know About Wood Propellers

P

PropMan

Well Known Member
Wood Propellers are a fantastic choice for your RV.:D They are light,inexpensive,and low maintenance.

I've started this thread to help those who have questions about Wood Propellers.

A few topics to start are:

1)Maintenance- They are LOW maintenance Not NO maintenance. As always inspect you Prop before each flight.
a. Moisture is a slow destroyer of a wood propeller. Any sort of damage which breaks thru the finish should be addressed as soon as possible.
b. Torque should be checked at each annual-I suggest checking the torque on new propeller installations after the frist flight or at least after the first hour.
c.All Wood Propellers need to be refinished every few years to prevent moisture damage. Check with the Manufacturer to determine what process is used for the finish. some are simple varnish others are automotive clear coats.If you chose to refinish yourself check the balance. its easy to get off.

2)Cost-Wood propellers are the most economical of choices. Typically they start at 800.00 and go up to 2700.00 depending on application.(two or three blade)

3)Weight-A typical two blade weighs 11 to 12 pounds then you add the extension(6lbs), crush plate(2lbs) and bolts(2lbs). So the installed weight is around 21 pounds.

4)Aerobatics-
a.Wood propellers do not work fatigue like aluminum props. This is a big advantage with props used in aerobatic applications.
b.Wood propellers have a much lower polar moment of inertia which results in a lower gyroscopic effect thereby giving a more responsive aircraft.


These are a few bits of information on Wood Propellers. Please feel free to ask if you have questions. From time to time I'll be adding information.
 
Last edited:
wood prop

I absolutely LOVE my Sterba wood prop!

$655 delivered to my front door and it works great.

Also, its gorgeous to look at.

Of course, you can spend more (lots more) on a prop but I'd rather buy fuel and go flying....

Dave
-9A
 
I beg to disagree!

Wood props, properly sized are great for racing and you can hardly argue with the price. But for all-around use I would not recommend wood props for most RVs. You MUST slow down and reduce RPM at the first sign of rain or you risk destroying the finish on wood props. The first time your buddies leave you behind will convince you that perhaps a metal or composite prop would have been a better idea.

Before you flame me, note that I said "for all-around use". I will argue that wood props are definitely not preferred for SERIOUS aerobatics or formation flying where a CS prop is needed. Personally, I would never consider a wood prop on my RV.

(Let the flaming begin... :D)
 
I'm with Smoky.

We used a three-blade Catto on our -6A and it bettered Van's numbers by a little...around 201 MPH, WOT, TAS at 7,500'.

Wooden props usually have a much thicker shank at the root and I've yet to see one outperform the Catto.

Can't adress the formation issue, although I've seen FP props flying formation as well.

Best,
 
Wood Props

No flaming required...but

No idea why anyone would think a wood prop or more specifically a FP prop hinders formation flying in any way? Unless maybe you are talking a max performance section take-off at high elevation..otherwise it is completely a non-issue. I can understand for airshows having all players matched in configuration would make it much easier for lead but for general point A to B formation flying not a problem. In fact, when formation flying was invented the planes all had wood props...

Curious what defines "serious aerobatics" in an RV? I would hope anyone performing aerobatics in their RV take them "seriously"?

I've been working on the Primary and many of the Sportsman figures all summer with my FP wood sensenich and nothing bad has happened - should I be afraid now :)
 
I had 2 Clark Lydic props with a pusher airplane that cruised faster than the RV's and they held up quite well. Yes, they had to be refinished about every year but that was no big deal and easy to do with spar varnish or clear epoxy. Rain does a much worse job on the Catto than it did with the Performance prop. It has a tough leading edge which the Catto does not have (before the stainless option).

Laminated wood is very strong for its weight. The first prop lost a blade when a piece of exhaust pipe went through it, the other 2 blades while damaged did not depart. The light weight of the unit limited vibration to the point where there was no damage to the engine. If that had happened with a metal prop, the engine would have departed.

Over all, you get what you pay for. The Catto or this prop are very good compromises and show excellent performance - but not as excellent as a CS unit, especially on take off. There days I wish I had 2700 rpm for take off. The Performance design is quasi CS in that static rpm was 2350-2400 whereas the Catto runs at 2200. (mine is actually about 2180 most days but it gets wound up quick once in the air)
 
Last edited:
RV8R999 said:
No flaming required...but

No idea why anyone would think a wood prop or more specifically a FP prop hinders formation flying in any way? Unless maybe you are talking a max performance section take-off at high elevation..otherwise it is completely a non-issue. I can understand for airshows having all players matched in configuration would make it much easier for lead but for general point A to B formation flying not a problem. In fact, when formation flying was invented the planes all had wood props...

Curious what defines "serious aerobatics" in an RV? I would hope anyone performing aerobatics in their RV take them "seriously"?

I've been working on the Primary and many of the Sportsman figures all summer with my FP wood sensenich and nothing bad has happened - should I be afraid now :)
Click to expand...

Yes, you can fly formation and aerobatics with wood props. SERIOUS formation pilots enjoy the rapid acceleration AND deceleration that only a CS prop provides. High speed descents will leave fixed pitch airplanes behind as they throttle back to avoid overspeeding their engines. Similarly, SERIOUS aerobatics demand high speeds and propeller braking in the RV. Team RV enters over-the-top maneuvers at 200KTAS, too fast for fixed pitch props. The CS provides the braking action needed to avoid exceeding Vne on downlines and during formation aerobatics the CS provides the braking action to avoid overtaking the lead aircraft while rolling out of a barrel roll from the outside position.

All Team RV aircraft have CS props. Some converted from wood or metal FP props. None have gone back!

I am not discouraging anyone from flying formation from A to B or doing aerobatics with their FP prop. But if you take either formation flying or aerobatics to the edge of the aircraft envelope, you will eventually find that the FP propeller will be a limiting factor. If you stay well within the center of the envelope you may never exceed the capabilities of your FP propeller and will continue to enjoy the benefits described in the leading post to this thread. It's your airplane. You make the choice.
 
Rivethead-Yes, they work Great on all the RVs

Smokey-No flaming here

I don?t want this to become a mine is better thread- just want to help inform people.

I have many customers who use their Wood propeller for all around use. And yes, you throttle back when entering rain but at 2300rpm and indicating 165mph I can hardly call that slow, I would suspect most would not enter rain at speeds near Vne.

All Around Use:
When a Wood prop is used in IFR conditions it Will need to be refinished more often. Some have this done at Annual and the propellers have been in service for well over ten years.

Note: If the propeller doesn?t have any sort of leading edge protection Do Not fly thru rain! It will erode the propeller away.

I install a polymer-alloy leading edge and glass the tips to protect against damage. This holds up very well for all around use.

Aerobatics: Properly designed- the wood propeller is great for aerobatics.

I can limit the overspeed problem on th down side with proper design.

RVs, OneDesign, Pitts, Laser, Bucker Jungmann & Jungmiester, Skybolt, and Starduster are some of the airframes that have Performance Propellers on them. I would venture to say they are SERIOUS about Aerobatics.

Formation: Yes, for those who choose to participate in formations may be better suited with a CS propeller. This all dependes on your intended mission of your airplane.
 
PropMan said:
Rivethead-Yes, they work Great on all the RVs

Smokey-No flaming here

I don?t want this to become a mine is better thread- just want to help inform people.....
Click to expand...

I appreciate the information you have presented. Ultimately it is the builder who will decide what prop to hang on his airplane. The more information he has, the better. We all have our prejudices and preferences. The informed builder will try to separate hype from fact and make a decision that will fit his mission. Isn't it wonderful to have so many choices?:D
 
Don't forget 'beauty'.

Frank didn't mention 'beauty' in his bullet points, so I will. One of the reasons I'm putting a wood prop on the RV-3 that I'm building, a plane that will mostly be polished, is that I think it will be really pleasing on the eye.

Like this:

ztgra9.jpg


2dcd0zl.jpg



Frank will be building this prop, and we can hopefully document its construction online.

The mission for this particular plane will be 85 to 90 mi./h on nice sunny mornings. Old school....
 
Last edited:
TR (In a few years): "Dad, can I borrow the RV3?"
DR: "Sure, just polish it up when you're done there little feller, mmm hmmm."
 
Question

I understand you can repitch a metal prop by bending the blades but how do you repitch a wooden prop? I can't imagine bending a wooden prop as that would break the glue joints between the laminations.
 
Re-Pitch

Jim- To repitch a wood propeller, Usually it can go only one way. Less-Pitch, I basically remove material the Old School way. With a Rasp.
What I do is measure the existing blades, input the data, determine the amount of adjustment needed, print out the new station pitch data and get after it with the rasp.
I can make fine adjustments (Ex. 50rpm) up thru major ones like repitching a propeller originally for an O360 for a O320. The tolerance I keep is within 1/10th of one degree. Adjustments can also be made for more rpm at static only or across the operating range.
 
tweaking wood prop

Frank also has some secrets on customizing the performance. He added 50 rpm for static to 2450, with very little change in the top WOT airspeed or rpm. This prop is perfect for Sportsman aerobatics. It really accelerates between 130 and 150 knots.
 
Wood if I could...

I installed a Sterba prop on my RV4 in 1995 and flew it for 1000 hours. Wood props are smooth, cheap and pretty. However, I really liked the following props I tested on my 4. Gary Hertzler ([email protected]) Craig Catto (www.cattoprops.com) Margie Warnke (retired)

My current RVX has an MT fixed pitch wood composite which I believe to be the best of both worlds. MT will make you a wood finished prop with their SS leading edge if you like.

Some considerations, many already noted:

1. 2200 RPM max in rain.
2. Check bolt torque every 25 hours for the first 100. Do not over torque!
3. Inspect thoroughly for cracks, erosion.

Misnomers:

1. You need constant speed to fly good formation. (Nope, Just lots of practice under duress :)
2. They are slower than metal or composite, properly pitched. (definitely not true)
3. Can't be re-pitched. (yes they can, see Frank's post)
4. Indestructible. (In a word, no I have seen 2 inflight failures)

Email me off line if you'd like to discuss further.

[email protected]


A few favorites:

Sterba

Colin Walker (I think)

Culver

Hertzler
 
Last edited:
Livin' on the edge

Hi Jim,

I have Ops-tested my fixed pitch MT through light rain at 2400 RPM numerous times, (live in FL) with no damage. Normal wear and tear flying off my grass strip includes some paint scratches, nothing major. The MT paint is of high quality, especially the flat black back. (say that 3 times) Side note is the performance, the German engineer nailed it on 2 different airplanes!

Overall, the performance, utility and service/support of MT has been excellent. However comma, my friend Craig Catto says he has a contender for me to test. Hmmm :)

Smokey

RVX with MT
 
Excellernt Examples

Smokey-
Those are excellent examples of wood propellers!
Exactly what I'm wanting to show, There are many Great choices for those who choose the Wood path.
Sent you a PM
 
Wood props truly are beautiful - I still have a chunk of one off the airplane I helped to rebuild (and soloed in) as a teenager. No, it wasn't the prop's fault that gave me the chunk - someone (else) put it in the trees. if a point solution for a prop is right for you, they are a great idea to put in the mix for evaluation. Wood, metal, composite....FP, CS, Ground adjustable....they are all viable choices if it fits what you want your airplane to do - just like VFR or IFR, Trike or Taildragger....

Build the airplane that's right for you, equipped in a way that's right for you!

Paul
 
mystery propeller

my Rv 3 came with a 70/70 wooden prop, SAE 2 bolt pattern, and curiously, wrapped in fiberglass instead of plastic leading edge.. can anyone identify make? I would like to have it refurbished if possible.. Talked to Ed Sterba, its not one of his for sure.... am guessing 1995 to 2000??

2gvkks8.jpg
://i41.tinypic.com/6jndq8.jpg


thanks
Jeff
 
Jeff-I have sent your photos to a few people who may be able to help. I'll let you know what comes up.
 
Harmonics

Here's an issue no one has brought up :rolleyes:. Back a few years ago it was THE thing to cut down a metel prop for "homebuilts" to make the them go fast. Not a good thing, yes the planes would go faster but it was just a matter of time when part of one of the blades would depart said plane. Always heard it was due to "harmonics" not being right. Any thoughts here. Check your Lycoming manuel and there is an RPM range their engines do not like. Is this due to the propeller or something inside the engine? I've always heard that high RPM and wooden propellers are a good relationship or better than a metal prop and high RPM. I know I've have seen 3,500 to 3,700 RPM many time in my old HIO 360 powered Lazer with no ill effects. That was serious aerobatic for many years with on engine problems and I was using a Burnnie Warnkie all most constance speed prop (wood fixed pitch). Also ran MT constance speed props on my 10-200 Ultimate biplane but need three of them. One on the plane, one in shipment to Germany for repairs and one being shipped back to me from Germany :(. Thoughts please.
 
Harmonics

Joe-
Wood propellers aren't prone to harmonic vibrations in certain RPM ranges as some aluminum propellers often are, and aluminum propellers have Operating RPM restrictions. Resulting in a wood propeller that can be safely used over the entire engine RPM span. This wood propeller characteristic also allows repitching and resizing of the propeller without a resulting harmonic problem.
I don't know much about the MT-so we will leave that to others.
 
MT

That MT comment was the standing joke in the aerobatic world back in the late 80's. Really didn't have much trouble with the ONE I had. The fixed pitched wood worked just fine in advanced and intermediate catagories. There was even a few that flew unlimited with fixed pitch then but those days are gone. My thought is spend your money on fuel not constance speed props. All you get for your money is alittle better take off performance, some breaking action and maintance $ out the window. Learn to fly your plane and keep it simple. :cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top