Van's Air Force
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Control Yokes
- Thread starter lowing
- Start date
jetjok
Well Known Member
Do Tell...Why?
Have you ever flown with a stick? I am quite curious about what would cause such an aversion to flying with a stick.
I suppose that it could be done with a T or Y arrangement coupling the two yokes to a single actuator.
The RV has such a nice feel in the stick forces, that it really seems to be a shame to make this mod. However, as many have stated before....build the plane you want, not what someone else wants.
Have you ever flown with a stick? I am quite curious about what would cause such an aversion to flying with a stick.
I suppose that it could be done with a T or Y arrangement coupling the two yokes to a single actuator.
The RV has such a nice feel in the stick forces, that it really seems to be a shame to make this mod. However, as many have stated before....build the plane you want, not what someone else wants.
For many decades now most pilots have taken all of there training in airplanes with a yolk instead of a stick. With that being the case, the majority of people flying RV's these days made the transition from only knowing how to fly with a yolk, to flying with a stick. If you took a poll I think most people would tell you that the movements are much more natural for making the airplane do what they want it to do. Most people make the transition in only an hour or two. I bet you would too. Give it a try and see what you think.
Right you are Scott...
...All of my previous flying was done with a yoke. I am right handed, flew the yoke with my left. I had always envisioned flying the stick with my right hand, but my RV-6A is set up in the standard configuration. It took about 1 hour to get completely comfortable with using my left hand on the stick. During that first hour, there were no big issues either, just different.
I have seen pictures of some side x side RV's where the instrument panel was designed with the intent that PIC would be flown from the right seat. This was to put the stick in the PIC's right hand.
...All of my previous flying was done with a yoke. I am right handed, flew the yoke with my left. I had always envisioned flying the stick with my right hand, but my RV-6A is set up in the standard configuration. It took about 1 hour to get completely comfortable with using my left hand on the stick. During that first hour, there were no big issues either, just different.
I have seen pictures of some side x side RV's where the instrument panel was designed with the intent that PIC would be flown from the right seat. This was to put the stick in the PIC's right hand.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
jsharkey
Well Known Member
It's Easy
I'm a right handed RV6 pilot who learned mainly on Cessnas. For most flying my left forearm rests on my left thigh and I move the stick from just below the grip with my left middle and index finger and thumb. The biggest nuisance is having to raise my hand to press the PTT switch on top of the grip
I'll move my hand further up the stick for take-off and landing.
A yoke might be better for allowing you to put things on you lap but with a top entry RV it would make access harder.
Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Phase 1
I'm a right handed RV6 pilot who learned mainly on Cessnas. For most flying my left forearm rests on my left thigh and I move the stick from just below the grip with my left middle and index finger and thumb. The biggest nuisance is having to raise my hand to press the PTT switch on top of the grip
I'll move my hand further up the stick for take-off and landing.A yoke might be better for allowing you to put things on you lap but with a top entry RV it would make access harder.
Jim Sharkey
RV6 - Phase 1
flion
Well Known Member
I never understood the right/left handed thing. Yoke or not, I fly with both hands. If I need to use the engine controls or adjust the radios (i.e., usually), I'm flying with my left hand on the yoke/stick. But if I need to adjust altimeter, air vent, etc., or my left hand simply needs a rest, I fly with the right hand. And, yes, I am strongly right handed.
As for transitioning to the stick, by the time I had done all the hangar flying before my RV's first flight, it was a total non-issue.
Now, to the downsides of yokes in an RV. More weight because the linkages would have to go from behind the panel down to the floor and back under the seats. Also, much more complexity. Then, you'd have the control system under your feet, so less foot room, and possibly a re-design of the rudder pedals. Too much trouble.
As for transitioning to the stick, by the time I had done all the hangar flying before my RV's first flight, it was a total non-issue.
Now, to the downsides of yokes in an RV. More weight because the linkages would have to go from behind the panel down to the floor and back under the seats. Also, much more complexity. Then, you'd have the control system under your feet, so less foot room, and possibly a re-design of the rudder pedals. Too much trouble.
Funny this came up
I just took a friend flying a couple days ago that had never flown with a stick and his first comment was how much more natural it seemed to him to use the stick rather than the yolk.
Different strokes I guess.
Besides, yolks look funny in tandem planes
The X-3 Stilletto had a big wheel in it and I actually laughed when I saw it..
I just took a friend flying a couple days ago that had never flown with a stick and his first comment was how much more natural it seemed to him to use the stick rather than the yolk.
Different strokes I guess.
Besides, yolks look funny in tandem planes
The X-3 Stilletto had a big wheel in it and I actually laughed when I saw it..
N941WR
Legacy Member
No Yoke
I think you might risk being voted off the RV island with that question.
Sticks are much more intuitive to fly than yokes, just point the thing where you want to go, and you are there.
If it is the safety thing you are worried about, a good harness w/ sub-strap should make you feel better about that.
Since you grew up with yokes, you are probably very comfortable with flying with your left hand, so that is not an issue.
As for the "transition" to yokes, what's to transition? You are transitioning to a new plane, with different switches, flight characteristics, etc. The stick is just part of it.
Regarding the right hand / left hand thing, I will occasionally fly my RV from the right seat. Not a big deal switching back and forth.
PS. Welcome to the VAF forum!
I think you might risk being voted off the RV island with that question.
Sticks are much more intuitive to fly than yokes, just point the thing where you want to go, and you are there.
If it is the safety thing you are worried about, a good harness w/ sub-strap should make you feel better about that.
Since you grew up with yokes, you are probably very comfortable with flying with your left hand, so that is not an issue.
As for the "transition" to yokes, what's to transition? You are transitioning to a new plane, with different switches, flight characteristics, etc. The stick is just part of it.
Regarding the right hand / left hand thing, I will occasionally fly my RV from the right seat. Not a big deal switching back and forth.
PS. Welcome to the VAF forum!
I think you might risk being voted off the RV island with that question.
Sticks are much more intuitive to fly than yokes, just point the thing where you want to go, and you are there.
If it is the safety thing you are worried about, a good harness w/ sub-strap should make you feel better about that.
Since you grew up with yokes, you are probably very comfortable with flying with your left hand, so that is not an issue.
As for the "transition" to yokes, what's to transition? You are transitioning to a new plane, with different switches, flight characteristics, etc. The stick is just part of it.
Regarding the right hand / left hand thing, I will occasionally fly my RV from the right seat. Not a big deal switching back and forth.
PS. Welcome to the VAF forum!
I am pretty sure that this mod would drastically reduce the value of the plane.
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
Chains, pulleys, sprockets,= slop. Yes, it would drastically reduce the value, and add weight as well.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
P.S. --- anyone seen the stick/yokes in the new lightweight Cessna. They are certainly different.
Rick6a
Well Known Member
Never Assume
Fellas. The man asked a simple question and rather than receiving informative answers, all he gets in return (except from Pierre) is editorial comments. Who are we to judge? For all we know, maybe Steve is looking for something cheaper to fly and is simply used to the way his P-38 handles.
Fellas. The man asked a simple question and rather than receiving informative answers, all he gets in return (except from Pierre) is editorial comments. Who are we to judge? For all we know, maybe Steve is looking for something cheaper to fly and is simply used to the way his P-38 handles.
gvgoff99
Well Known Member
May be "yoking"
If he is going from tricycle to "conventional" landing gear I would think the stick would be a no brainer! Maybe an hour of transition training would be useful in selling the control stick vs all the work to put in a yoke. (no yoking)
Vern, You may have something as the original question is the first and only post by lowing but in his defense his public profile indicates that he is a 172 pilot building a RV-6.
If he is going from tricycle to "conventional" landing gear I would think the stick would be a no brainer! Maybe an hour of transition training would be useful in selling the control stick vs all the work to put in a yoke. (no yoking
)
longranger
Well Known Member
I had no problem going from the yokes in 150's and 172's (left hand yoke, right hand throttle) to sticks in the J-3 and Stearman (right hand sick, left hand throttle). Either one seemed as natural as walking. However, for some reason I'm not quite sure I understand, the one time a flew a side-by-side RV6 from the left seat I could not keep my right hand from wanting to grab the stick, and was always having to switch hands to operate throttle, flaps, radios, etc. It seemed especially awkward in the pattern. If I ever build a side by side, I'll seriously consider a left hand throttle quadrant, if not dual quadrants.
PS: Anyone know of a stick conversion for a C-170?
PS: Anyone know of a stick conversion for a C-170?
L.Adamson
Well Known Member
As you said, left hand yokes in Pipers and Cessnas for me. Right stick for aerobatic courses in a Pitts S2B, and right hand stick for many years of flight simulation which I've beta tested for various companies over the years. On my desktop controls, I still use right. Just can't get use to left.
Then after sitting in the RV6A for a while, the left hand just naturally rested on the arm rest, and all of the sudden, the stick feels very normal. In fact, it feels weird to use the right hand while in the left seat. But since I still go flying in a 9A as the right seater once and a while, the right hand still seems normal for the right stick. So there you have it...........it only takes a few short sessions to become completely use to it!
And BTW ---- As Pipers & quadrants were always my preference, I've even got use to those Cessna type push/pulls...
L.Adamson --- RV6A
Thanks for all your replies. I guess I need to find someone with a RV who would give me some stick time to try it out. I suppose I should have supplied a little more information about myself and the reason for my question. First I should have mentioned it is a RV-6A. I have only seen a few RV?s in person and they had sticks and prompted the question for the yokes. I have never been in an airplane with a stick yet alone to fly one. I have flown with yokes for 31 years and wonder at age 70 if an old dog can be taught new tricks. I want to be safe and would feel more comfortable with yokes. I am a mechanical designer and designing a yoke set up is not a problem. BD-4 planes have both options why not RV?s; at least the side by side models? On long cross country?s I like to move around a bit and it seems I would not have that freedom with a stick between my legs. I have read a post of a RV pilot not being able to land nicely with 100 hours in his plane. Also I see a lot of RV?s for sale with low hours since built; why I ask.
My reason for choosing the RV was it?s speed otherwise I would keep flying my Spam can 172. It may be a moot point though, because I may not live lone enough to complete the construction anyhow.
Steve Roper
N20074
RV-6A: Easy to Fly and Land
Steve, you can build the plane however you like, but I suspect that you will adapt to the stick within ten hours or so. As far as being hard to land, maybe some of the tailwheel models, I have never landed one of those. My personal experience is that the RV's are easier to land than a 172, because they are have such excellent control authority. My 6A is a breeze to land, almost every landing is very smooth. It took a little while to get used to a tighter pattern and 80 knot final approach speed, (being a low time 172 pilot) but the adjustment is complete now after 130 hours or so in the 6A.
My first RV solo was in a 9A, it has the responsiveness of an RV and the low approach speeds of a 172.
In summary: Don't worry, be happy!
Hans
Steve, you can build the plane however you like, but I suspect that you will adapt to the stick within ten hours or so. As far as being hard to land, maybe some of the tailwheel models, I have never landed one of those. My personal experience is that the RV's are easier to land than a 172, because they are have such excellent control authority. My 6A is a breeze to land, almost every landing is very smooth. It took a little while to get used to a tighter pattern and 80 knot final approach speed, (being a low time 172 pilot) but the adjustment is complete now after 130 hours or so in the 6A.
My first RV solo was in a 9A, it has the responsiveness of an RV and the low approach speeds of a 172.
In summary: Don't worry, be happy!
Hans
Steve, one OF the another
Steve, I owned an Archer II for 22 years and loved it (flew Cessnas before that). I finished my RV-6A when I was 67 and retired to enjoy the after life. I had never flown a stick controlled airplane either but there is NOTHING TO IT! It is awkward for IFR because the stick makes you use two kneeboards instead of one lap board and reaching across to the left one where you have your charts requires a little adjustment. Since you know darn well that you can design a yoke system for your plane I assume that you are asking if it is wise to do. I don't think it is. While I was building my airplane a friend took me up for a ride in his Kitfox and that was the first time I ever flew with a stick. I went to Oregon and had a morning session flying with Mike Seager and that was it. I made the first and every subsequent flight in my RV-6A (something over 550 hours now) it is the most natural way to fly in my opinion. I am now 73 so I can appreciate your apprehension but there is no reason to worry - after trying it I think you will understand that it is the right design for its function in this airplane. It is important for you to get some hands on experience.
Bob Axsom
Steve, I owned an Archer II for 22 years and loved it (flew Cessnas before that). I finished my RV-6A when I was 67 and retired to enjoy the after life. I had never flown a stick controlled airplane either but there is NOTHING TO IT! It is awkward for IFR because the stick makes you use two kneeboards instead of one lap board and reaching across to the left one where you have your charts requires a little adjustment. Since you know darn well that you can design a yoke system for your plane I assume that you are asking if it is wise to do. I don't think it is. While I was building my airplane a friend took me up for a ride in his Kitfox and that was the first time I ever flew with a stick. I went to Oregon and had a morning session flying with Mike Seager and that was it. I made the first and every subsequent flight in my RV-6A (something over 550 hours now) it is the most natural way to fly in my opinion. I am now 73 so I can appreciate your apprehension but there is no reason to worry - after trying it I think you will understand that it is the right design for its function in this airplane. It is important for you to get some hands on experience.
Bob Axsom
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gvgoff99
Well Known Member
I have never been in an airplane with a stick yet alone to fly one. I have flown with yokes for 31 years and wonder at age 70 if an old dog can be taught new tricks. I want to be safe and would feel more comfortable with yokes. I am a mechanical designer and designing a yoke set up is not a problem. BD-4 planes have both options why not RV?s; at least the side by side models? On long cross country?s I like to move around a bit and it seems I would not have that freedom with a stick between my legs. I have read a post of a RV pilot not being able to land nicely with 100 hours in his plane. Also I see a lot of RV?s for sale with low hours since built; why I ask.
My reason for choosing the RV was it?s speed otherwise I would keep flying my Spam can 172. It may be a moot point though, because I may not live lone enough to complete the construction anyhow.
Steve Roper
N20074
Steve, I can empathize with your wondering if you will be around long enough to finish building an RV. I purchased a partially built kit about 4 years ago (age: 61). I was IMMEDIATELY struck with the idea that I "won't live long enough to finish this plane." If I were to do it again I would purchase a finished plane and fly it. If you are not too large then an RV-4 might be perfect and good copies of all RVs can now be found for a price that reflects price of materials (or less). The builder will get very little if anything for the time to build. You may want to consider this route. Even purchasing a finished "Experimental" plane allows you to make modifications. An A&P or IA has to sign off the annual conditional inspection. Other than that you can work on the plane. Your work will need to be up to snuff to pass a conditional inspection and if it is "major" work there is a requirement for a DAR to sign off. I have not done any "major" work so I am not quite sure how that would work but a little research at the EAA web site would probably get one up to speed.
Best of luck.
MauiLvrs
Well Known Member
Took us about 2 hrs...
BikePilot
Well Known Member
I have no knowledge yet about building or design feasability, but perhaps a third option would be side-mounted sticks as found in many composit planes - seems like it might give the control of a stick with the legroom of a yoke. I've not flown such a plane, just drooled on them a bit at oshkosh I have very low hours but have not felt awkward switching from stick aircraft and yoke aircraft.
Here's an example.
I have very low hours but have not felt awkward switching from stick aircraft and yoke aircraft. Here's an example.
twsurveyor
Well Known Member
Stick ro Yoke????
When I first flew an RV aircraft I had never touched a "stick". Now after 500 hours in RV's I hope I never have to fly a "Yoke" again. After all a "Yoke" is something that belongs in an egg not an RV aircraft!
All kidding aside, the transition from Yoke to stick is a non issue. "JUST DO IT", you'll love it!!
Tommy Walker
RV-6A, N 350 TW
490 Hrs. & "Climbing"!
When I first flew an RV aircraft I had never touched a "stick". Now after 500 hours in RV's I hope I never have to fly a "Yoke" again. After all a "Yoke" is something that belongs in an egg not an RV aircraft!
All kidding aside, the transition from Yoke to stick is a non issue. "JUST DO IT", you'll love it!!
Tommy Walker
RV-6A, N 350 TW
490 Hrs. & "Climbing"!
I tend to agree with most of the posts that there's no real reason to install yokes in an RV, that learning to fly with a stick is going to be lighter and easier.
Still, that being said, i'm now interested in the original question... Has anyone done it? I'm curious now... Not because it's something i'd ever do, but because it's just an interesting challenge. The Globe Swift had yokes originally, maybe something similar to that arrangement would be possible?
Still, that being said, i'm now interested in the original question... Has anyone done it? I'm curious now... Not because it's something i'd ever do, but because it's just an interesting challenge. The Globe Swift had yokes originally, maybe something similar to that arrangement would be possible?
Yoke and stick
Just finished reading "Aces High", a book about Dick Bong and Tommy McGuire, who flew the P-38 in the Pacific Theater during WWII. Bong was the top scoring ace of the war with 40 aircraft destroyed. The P-38 has a yoke. This is really a question of designing it and making it work. You don't have to go through the panel with a yoke. The Boeing aircraft have the yoke, but the column pivots at the floor. The same could be done in an RV. The hard part is integrating the roll control. Hey, we're experimenters - there's a lot of creative genius out there that can make it work. Flew a Luscombe a lot of years with the stick in my left hand, now fly and RV-8 with the stick in my right hand. Love both of them.
Just finished reading "Aces High", a book about Dick Bong and Tommy McGuire, who flew the P-38 in the Pacific Theater during WWII. Bong was the top scoring ace of the war with 40 aircraft destroyed. The P-38 has a yoke. This is really a question of designing it and making it work. You don't have to go through the panel with a yoke. The Boeing aircraft have the yoke, but the column pivots at the floor. The same could be done in an RV. The hard part is integrating the roll control. Hey, we're experimenters - there's a lot of creative genius out there that can make it work. Flew a Luscombe a lot of years with the stick in my left hand, now fly and RV-8 with the stick in my right hand. Love both of them.
dhall_polo
Well Known Member
5 stars reading
