What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Prop Choices: RV-14a

I would like to get my engine and prop ordered to lock in pricing and make sure I don't have any delays. I would like to go with a composite prop and have narrowed my choice down to the 3 blade MT, or the 3 blade Hartzell with the steel shank (instead of aluminum, and adds a little weight). I am going with the Lycoming Thunderbolt YIO-390-EXP119 w/Acc, with Dual Emags, normal compression. The MT is $15,700 and the Hartzell is $21,900. For those of you that have either of these i would like to understand:

-Price Difference: Why is Hartzell $6200 more?
-CG: I understand the RV14a tends to have an aft CG. Do you have any problems going with a 3 blade composite vs. heavier aluminum? If i intend to put on A/C would the weight of the A/C (compressor) make the potential CG problem better?
-Performance: Any difference between the MT or Hartzell?
-Choice: What led you to choose one over the other?

I do understand there is more value in doing the aluminum 2 blade from Hartzell, as they are under 10k and have very similar performance. I do understand some folks have a more difficult time removing/installing the cowling from a 3 blade prop. But for those of you who have put a composite prop on, I would love to get your advice. I have tried to review all posts associated with Prop choices, and could not find this info.

Thank you!
 
I installed the composite 2-blade Hartzell and have been quite satisfied. It’s a beautiful product and really compliments the overall look. With A/C installed, the empty CG was at the fwd end of the range and normally loaded I typically cruise with just a bit of down pitch trim. A bit more weight up front would be helpful and I accomplished some of that with a beefier alternator ( for the AC) and a back-up. I can imagine removing the lower cowling may be more of a challenge with a three blade. I think it really comes down to aesthetics and costs. Im not sure there is a performance advantage to a three blade and that it outweighs the additional cost, but a 3-blade sure looks good on the RV-14!
 
-Price Difference: Why is Hartzell $6200 more?
-Choice: What led you to choose one over the other?

Thank you!

Don’t have a 14, but a 7 with the two blade Hartzell and a 10 with the three blade.

As to the price difference, I suspect part of it is in the different construction of the blades.

From MT - Presently most of our blades are built in natural composite design, by using high compressed thin layered laminated beech wood, which has a similar tensile strength as steel, in the root section and selected lightweight laminated spruce wood in the remaining part of the blade.

From Hartzell - Hartzell’s composite blades are full composite, not composite over a wood core. The structural part of our composite propeller blades is constructed using a combination of aerospace-grade carbon fiber and Kevlar® materials for optimal strength and performance.

As to how we made the choice - our first DA40 had a three blade MT. It did not tolerate our grass strip very well. Our second DA40 had the larger diameter two blade wide chord Hartzell. 4 years of operation on our grass strip and it looked like new. Three years with the RV7 and it still looks like new. RV10 is in Phase I so no data yet. The wide chord of the Hartzell is great for formation flying. Don’t think the MT would be as good. No experience with the new Raptor prop.

There is some anecdotal evidence that some repairs on the MT required shipping back to Europe. Don’t know if that’s still true or if the facility in Deland can handle all MT repairs. Worst case on the Hartzell is it goes back to Piqua and I could drive it there if shipping was prohibitively expensive.
 
Last edited:
Why haven’t you considered the Whirlwind? My only experience with MT is that on the -7 I delivered, it was slow, and the finish seems to develop cracks. Perhaps the slowness wasn’t the props fault, and I hear the cracking is only in the surface finish, but it seems most develop those cracks, and I haven’t flown or seen a fast MT prop.. it was smooth though.
 
I installed the composite 2-blade Hartzell and have been quite satisfied. It’s a beautiful product and really compliments the overall look. With A/C installed, the empty CG was at the fwd end of the range and normally loaded I typically cruise with just a bit of down pitch trim. A bit more weight up front would be helpful and I accomplished some of that with a beefier alternator ( for the AC) and a back-up. I can imagine removing the lower cowling may be more of a challenge with a three blade. I think it really comes down to aesthetics and costs. Im not sure there is a performance advantage to a three blade and that it outweighs the additional cost, but a 3-blade sure looks good on the RV-14!
Marty, i just want to clarify where your CG ended up with the A/C installed. You said it was the forward end of the CG, but then you said you sometimes have to give it trim down in cruise and a bit more weight up front would be helpful? Tom, good call on Whirlwind. They are right down the street from me. I will call today and report back anything i find. Thank you!
 
CG

Went with a three blade WW 300-72 and really like it. Also 2 Earth X batteries and back up alternator with the heavier SkyTec starter. Even with full baggage CG is fine for utility class. Remove baggage and OK for aero. Also the original IO390 so that is a little heavier than the exp. Vans built a 14 with a IO360 and that is quite a bit lighter and I assume CG was fine. I’m not sure why everyone is stressing about being aft heavy. Maybe with the 360 a possibility??
 
Went with a three blade WW 300-72 and really like it. Also 2 Earth X batteries and back up alternator with the heavier SkyTec starter. Even with full baggage CG is fine for utility class. Remove baggage and OK for aero. Also the original IO390 so that is a little heavier than the exp. Vans built a 14 with a IO360 and that is quite a bit lighter and I assume CG was fine. I’m not sure why everyone is stressing about being aft heavy. Maybe with the 360 a possibility??

You are 100% correct, I don't know where this misinformation about aft CG issues on the -14A came from. The numbers show this isn't the case as you said.
 
While my RV is the 7A and not the 14, I also have needed to consider a new propeller purchase because of a prop strike while taxing in the grass at AirVenture last July. Nate Smith at Myers Aviation at Oshkosh informed me there was a significant backlog on new Hartzell two blade BA propellers and that I could likely expect a delay in the repair process of my aircraft. I also discovered that Hartzell BA propellers have an RPM restriction of 2350 to 2500 rpm on Lycoming engines when PMags are installed. Since I’m having dual PMags installed on my rebuild I thought maybe I should look around.

This set me on the hunt for a different propeller to meet my need. Several folks recommended the Whrilwind three blade propeller. Some others recommended the MT propeller with the heavy duty hub. There were two factors that solidified my decision to go with the MT with HD hub. One, the Whrilwind requires a 500 hour inspection and there are fewer prop shops around that work on this uncertified propeller. Two, the MT has a 2400 hour inspection cycle, a hub that doesn’t require annual greasing, and being a certified propeller - the likelihood that more shops will work on it. Both propellers are three blade composite propellers but with different construction design. Both should improve climb out performance with slight penalty on top end speed. Both will make it more difficult to remove the lower cowling due to the three blade design. Both offer a weight savings over my Hartzell BA two blade aluminum propeller.

Which one is better? How do they compare to Hartzell’s three blade composite? So far I’ve discovered it depends on who you ask. The Hartzell is definitely the most costly. Only time will tell.
 
Last edited:
Whilrlwind Prop

Jim, thanks for the info on the Whirlwind prop. I actually just got off the phone with their rep. Seems like a great prop for the money (15k for the 330 Series), but the 500 hour inspection is a no-go for me. Did you order your MT from Vans or McFarlane? Why did you ultimately go for the MT over the Hartzell 3 Blade? McFarlane has quoted me $17,750 delivered and assembled. The Hartzell is $21,900 from Vans, plus maybe another $750 for freight? So their is a price difference for sure. Still waiting on the actual specs with weights from Hartzell.
 
Jim, thanks for the info on the Whirlwind prop. I actually just got off the phone with their rep. Seems like a great prop for the money (15k for the 330 Series), but the 500 hour inspection is a no-go for me. Did you order your MT from Vans or McFarlane? Why did you ultimately go for the MT over the Hartzell 3 Blade? McFarlane has quoted me $17,750 delivered and assembled. The Hartzell is $21,900 from Vans, plus maybe another $750 for freight? So their is a price difference for sure. Still waiting on the actual specs with weights from Hartzell.

Nate at Myers placed the order for me from McFarlane since insurance is paying for it. I’m fortunate in that I was still able to get the Airshow price and saved about $2K from your above price. My price includes shipping to Myers Aviation and the propeller was immediately available. McFarlane is keeping the prop until Myers is ready for it because of storage limitations at Myers.

The Hartzell three blade was more money and money always is a factor in my decisions. The Hartzell may be a better prop ( don’t know for sure) but the MT is a “good” prop, recommended by Walt Aronow who has one installed on his aircraft, and a friend also has one one his aircraft, and it meets my needs.
 
I continue to be really happy with my Whirl Wind prop. The current 500-hr inspection cycle will probably change as they gain more service experience with the new model. I know mine (WW 200RV) went up to 700 hrs during my first few years using it.

BTW, Lycoming recommends removing the prop and cleaning all the lead sludge out of the nose portion of the crankshaft every 500 hrs anyway. Mine came off at 700 hrs and it was pretty thick in there. When G100UL becomes available, we won't have to worry about that anymore!

All the data I have says that the Whirl Wind and Hartzell props are about the same for speed. The MT props are generally slower (5 kts?) because the blade airfoils are thicker, having a wood core.
 
WW 378HRT

The 378HRT (Older design) is now at 800 hours of until inspection. Seems the number of inspection providers has only increased in the last few years. My options at the time I made my decision was either Hartzell or Whirlwind. There have been several good data based performance reviews on these props the last few years. WW won out over Hartzell for its costs and the ability to provide a custom paint scheme that at the time Hartzell did not provide. My WW on the 14 is extremely smooth and that is without balancing.
 
IO-390 w/Hartzell 3 blade composite

IO390 Exp 119 accessory case. No issue with CG. I can load 100lbs in baggage area and still be within envelope. Just finished phase 1 today but the prop is smooth and I don’t think I’m giving anything up on top end. I have a thunderbolt and got the prop balanced a few weeks ago. Balancer didn’t need to add any weights. It came in at 0.05.
I like the TBO as well. Happy customer. Looks great too��
 
There are 30 Prop thread discussions on VAF RV14. You can see all of them on page 31 of the "general construction, Oops and fixes" PDF on the WIKI. See below for the WIKI.
 
Back
Top