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Q: fueling the plane.

kentb

kentb

Well Known Member
Yesterday someone stopped by as I was add fuel to the plane. We have a truck on the airport and you just drive it to your hangar to refuel. I have always just opened my hangar and pulled the host into the hangar (after grounding of course) and fueled up without moving the plane.
The person that stopped by suggested that it is not safe to leave your plane in the hangar (never heard this before). It was suggested to pull the plane out of the hangar and then add fuel.

What say you, forum-ites?

Kent
 
My fuel pump is in my hangar!

As it is for many of my airpark friends. I guess I could pull the airplane out of the hangar and run the hose out. That seems kind of silly to me.
 
Possible that fuel vapors might collect in the hangar during the operation?
If there was a fire, it might be easier to fight if the aircraft is in the open?

Note that some places prohibit in hangar refueling.
"Hazardous operations that include any of the following are prohibited in a hangar: fuel transfer service, hot work, spray painting, paint stripping, or doping."
 
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I think outside is safer!

I'm in the same ball park with MikeJ. Fumes can collect in the hangar. There is more air circulation outside.
 
At my city-owned airport, hangar rules state "no fueling in hangars". You might want to look at your local rules regarding fueling and fuel storage.
 
My airport allows a top off of my fuel tanks
at the hangar as long as I pull the plane
out before opening the fuel caps.
Tom
 
It all boils down to air circulation. How much air flow do you get in your hangar? Be aware of the potential for fumes to build up. Remember that fuel vapor is heavy and will sink to the floor instead of rise to the ceiling like lighter gases. If you have a good cross flow air circulation that will allow the vapors to quickly vacate the hangar, fueling inside a hangar can be done, but fueling outside is most definitely safer.
 
RVbySDI said:
fueling outside is most definitely safer.
Click to expand...

Just think about the un-thinkable. "What If" you actually had a fire while refueling? If it occurred in the hangar, all other planes in the hangars are at risk. If you're out on the taxiway, there's a good chance that you're not going to involve other aircraft and buildings.
 
I echo what Scott said. Around here it's pretty common knowledge (I hope) to NOT transfer fuel in any enclosed space. If it's inside your own building and no one else has their stuff in there, then go ahead, live on the wild side, but not recommended. :eek:


Bevan
Rv7A wiring
 
Fuel and passengers

Speaking of refuelling...particularly when making a stop just for fuel...do you ask your passengers to get out (and stretch their legs) before refueling?

What a tragedy if there's a fuel spill and spark during refueling especially on a high wing aircraft, or the right tank of a Piper (next to the only exit). :eek:

Bevan
Think ahead and live
 
Chances of a fire, etc while refueling are probably pretty slim. But, it can and does happen. Why take the chance? If it goes up while out of the hangar, I need a new plane. If it goes up in the hangar I need a new plane, hangar and house.
 
Bevan said:
Speaking of refuelling...particularly when making a stop just for fuel...do you ask your passengers to get out (and stretch their legs) before refueling?
Click to expand...

Yes! The last thing I want to worry about when the fuel tank lights off is getting a passenger out of the plane.
 
FUELING

My airport requires all refueling to be done at the airport refueling area in compliance with Airport Rules & Regulations 4.02.

Regulation 4.02 requires you to have a permit issued by the Airport Manager so that you can pay him for your fuel flowage. He charges a fee to some people and no fee to his friends. He also must approve your refueling equipment which must be UL approved saftey cans with metal spouts and a metal funnel. You must also carry a 20-BC rated fire extinguisher in the delivery vehicle and have one at the fueling area.

You must also be in compliance with the National Fire Protection Association manual, Standard 407, Standard for Aircraft Fuel Servicing.
 
dadroot said:
My airport requires all refueling to be done at the airport refueling area in compliance with Airport Rules & Regulations 4.02.

Regulation 4.02 requires you to have a permit issued by the Airport Manager so that you can pay him for your fuel flowage. He charges a fee to some people and no fee to his friends. He also must approve your refueling equipment which must be UL approved saftey cans with metal spouts and a metal funnel. You must also carry a 20-BC rated fire extinguisher in the delivery vehicle and have one at the fueling area.

You must also be in compliance with the National Fire Protection Association manual, Standard 407, Standard for Aircraft Fuel Servicing.
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like I would fly the 4 minutes to SCX and buy cheaper fuel just to make a point.
 
I think it all boils down to this one important question: (borrowed from that famous RV pilot Clint Eastwood)
?You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'...

I never feel that lucky, so the airplane comes out, as do all passengers. The effort saved is just not worth the risk IMHO. Plus I wonder how the insurance company would feel about fueling inside a building?

Just my $5/gal worth...

George
 
Standard 407

dadroot said:
......
You must also be in compliance with the National Fire Protection Association manual, Standard 407, Standard for Aircraft Fuel Servicing.
Click to expand...

I just looked through the referenced NFPA standard 407, and it calls specifically for all fueling to be performed outdoors, with at least 25 ft from the fuel filler location to any buildings.
 
What if?

What do you suppose the insurance company would do if you destroyed the plane in a fueling fire. If you are going to continue this practice, which by now you can see airport management generally frowns upon, because there insurer say it is a no no. the current coverage providers are looking for any little reason not to pay a claim if your in T hangars and you destroy other peoples property watch how quickly the other insurance companies come after your estate. Do youself a favor and fuel outside and avoid the probable legal nightmare. Happy holidays..... Larry
 
Ignition source

2 things one a confined space for fumes to collect and an ignition source in hanger electrics, i.e. light switches etc. If you have ever seen films of petrol fume clouds taken with special camera's you would understand why.

That is why vast sums of money are spent in industry in intrinsically safe systems and exd rated enclosures.

Rob
p.s.
 
Not sure what the FAA have to say but I think the rules down here require no fuelling in or within 6m of a building etc..... :confused: And definately no folk in the cabin.

DB:cool:
 
Another intersting point.

What is the difference in fueling an airplane and a car?
Although I don't add fuel to my car in an enclosed building, I don't bother removing people from the car when I get fuel. Also the car isn't grounded.

Kent
 
One difference is that MoGas is more volatile than AvGas. But I always fill my car outdoors, 'cause that's where the gas stations are.:p
 
kentb said:
What is the difference in fueling an airplane and a car?
Although I don't add fuel to my car in an enclosed building, I don't bother removing people from the car when I get fuel. Also the car isn't grounded.

Kent
Click to expand...
The car is grounded when you place the nozzle in the filler neck, in much the same way as an aircraft, though without a dedicated ground or bonding wire.

I would guess the difference between a car and a plane is, with the car; it's seatbelts off, door open and run like ****. Takes only a few seconds and you're not standing on the fuel tank while you're getting out.
 
RV10inOz said:
Not sure what the FAA have to say but I think the rules down here require no fuelling in or within 6m of a building etc..... :confused: And definately no folk in the cabin.

DB:cool:
Click to expand...

In Australia it's covered under Section 20.9 of the Civil Aviation Orders. No refuelling within 5 metres of any sealed building or within 6 metres of other stationary aircraft. Also, no refuelling with Avgas with pax on board.

I'd be surprised if the FARs aren't similar.
 
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