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App idea for iPad...

6

649PF

Member
Is there anything like this that anyone has ever heard of? Copying IFR clearances have always been tough for me, especially on long unfamiliar legs. I hate getting yelled at by controllers right before going into the clouds. The iPad seems ripe for this type of app. Picture your screen with the standard DRAFT down the left side. 1) Before calling for you clearance you would input your expected destination next to D. 2) Then next to your route (R) would be columns with every possible en-route airway and VOR marker, ordered by most likely with a big DIRECT button. As the controller reads you your clearance you would just click on the names followed by an airway or "direct" button. As you did, your choices would diminish making it easier to find the next one. Altitudes (A) would be in list appropriate for direction of travel of course. All possible departure frequencies (F) would pop up and finally an easy way to enter your transponder code. The time and frustration saved would make IFR much more enjoyable for the GA pilot. Any thoughts?
 
I think it would be tougher to find the different airways, intersections, etc and click on them versus writing them down as the controller reads them off (I can copy a clearance much quicker than program an FMS). It has been my experience that the CD folks are always happy to make sure you've copied the clearance correctly. Having said that, give it a try, you never know if it might work well until you do.
 
Sounds like a lot of extra work

Hard to imagine that searching thru a multiple-choice menu would be faster than putting down a few short hand letters and symbols. Suggest taking a hand held receiver and sitting in your car near a busy airport and copying clearances at 0700. Listen for the read backs and check your accuracy. Practice will make the real thing easier- especially when you already know where you're going.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
I agree with both of you. Scrolling would not work. However, it seems to me that if it were programmed correctly, all of your options would be in full view, hopefully in or near the top row. All you would have to do would be confirm it and then touch it. I would imagine it to be intuitive as well, meaning that it would learn routes that you fly frequently.
 
I like it....but a simpler app would be to take all the preferred routes (that are published) and enter them into an app so they can be searchable. Perhaps combine THAT with your idea and you might have something.
 
You need to figure out your own short hand that you can use. Pen and paper never fail. Something you can decipher. I used to let my students sit in the office and listen to clearance and practice writing down clearances (in the ages before live atc online). Write out the fix however it sounds if you don't know the identifier and afterwards you can ask for the spelling of an intersection or ID if you're not familiar.

For instance:

C xyz str2 ely txn af 5k 36 10a 354.3 4326

"cleared to the xyz airport, via the Starr two, EELIE transition, then as filed. On departure climb and maintain 5000, expect FL360 10 minutes after, departure 354.3 squawk 4326"

Maybe I'm just old school but for cockpit management I've never found anything better than my pencil and my kneeboard pad.
 
Dang Sig, you write a lot! ;) My shorthand is down to about this on the same clearance:

S2 Ely AF 50 360/10 354.3 4326

This works well even in places I'm unfamiliar with as long as I pull the departure chart shortly after to verify I had read back the correct departure. I just couldn't imagine trying to find all those fixes and altitudes on a computer screen as CD is reading them off.

I do believe Fltplan.com can show you the clearances most often/recently given between two airports, so that may be another tool for the OP to use when filing.
 
Copying a clearance

While i have an iPad with Foreflight (which is FANTASTIC BTW), I tend to take the low tech approach to dealing with most IFR clearances. I use fltplan.com to file all my IFR flight plans and also use FlightAware.com to track my aircraft. I get a text message from FlightAware when the flight plan is filed and about an hour before scheduled departure, I get another text with the proposed routing. It is almost always the same one the controller reads to me when picking up the clearance. Both fltplan.com and flightaware.com are free. I wouldn't fly anywhere without em. Fltplan.com will also show you the proposed routing after it has submitted the flight plan to the FAA. FlightAware's text messaging feature is tough to beat though.
 
Cheat sheet

A cheat sheet we learned years ago in IFR training

CRAFT

C = cleared to
R = route
A = Altitude
F= frequency
T = Transponder

Part of this can be pre filled before contacting departure just fill in the blanks
C. DPA
R.
A. 5000
F. 133.5
T.
 
Hello David,

Garmin and PS Engineering both have clearance recorders in several of their Audio Panels (reason to upgrade?), or you could run a cable to a little portable recorder.

http://www.barnstormeraudio.com/IRC.html

Push play to review the clearance so you have it correct before ReadBack…. or one advertisement suggested keying the mic and playing the controllers voice right back at em.

pk
 
Sig600 said:
You need to figure out your own short hand that you can use. Pen and paper never fail. Something you can decipher.

For instance:

C xyz str2 ely txn af 5k 36 10a 354.3 4326

"cleared to the xyz airport, via the Starr two, EELIE transition, then as filed. On departure climb and maintain 5000, expect FL360 10 minutes after, departure 354.3 squawk 4326"

Maybe I'm just old school but for cockpit management I've never found anything better than my pencil and my kneeboard pad.
Click to expand...

Just a question to the group. If you are cleared to your intended destination why take the time to write that bit of information down? If it is something other than what you intended then I agree that noting it is a must.

I couldn't agree more that pen, paper and practice are best suited for this job. This is one of those areas where technology is not good enough yet to step in and do it better. I do think it is an interesting idea and with the right interface it could be useful but sitting here ruminating about how to make all of the possible options available quickly in what is currently in the range of acceptable ipad interfaces I think it would be much more difficult.
Technology isn't always better, usually but not always.

Mine would look like;
str2.ely af 50/360/10 354.3 4326
 
Heck if I get cleared to something other than I filed for, I stop writing altogether.

Then again on day 5, leg 3, sometimes it's nice to remind myself where I'm going next.
 
Last edited:
Sort of my point.
If you filed for abc and they clear you to abd then you need to stop and clear up the problem. However if you filed for abc and for some reason you are cleared to a fix (intersection, vor whatever. Just not an airport) with an efc or something along those lines (I know, doesn't happen much but it could) then for certain if you are going to accept and fly that clearance you need to write it all down.
 
try this instead

use your ipad to file the flight plan using fltplan.com

During preflight, say after your walk around and before starting, log back into fltplan.com and look at the clearance route.

This is usually identical to what clearance delivery, the fss, or center would give you. Get your head wrapped around that (if it was different from your filed route) and then call clearance delivery (or whatever you must)

Try it for yourself... Not sayin you HAVE to do that, I just do this for a living and it seems to work for me.
 
During those rare times when you aren't being cleared to your destination, you'll get plenty of heads up.

"N123AB, full route clearance/partial clearance/you're really not going to like this, advise when ready to copy"
 
Clearance by text message?

I always thought this was an ideal candidate for digital delivery. It's easy when you get what your expecting 'as filed', but a string of unfamiliar intersections at an unfamiliar airport seems doomed to several 'say agains'.

The ATC routing part of your clearance is sorted soon after you file and the rest of it is usually available 15 minutes before ETD. What would it take to get this e-mailed or texted to you before flight, so you could note it and read it back with confidence?

Any ATC experts care to comment if it might be viable?
 
Flyfalcons said:
Dang Sig, you write a lot! ;) My shorthand is down to about this on the same clearance:

S2 Ely AF 50 360/10 354.3 4326

This works well even in places I'm unfamiliar with as long as I pull the departure chart shortly after to verify I had read back the correct departure. I just couldn't imagine trying to find all those fixes and altitudes on a computer screen as CD is reading them off.

I do believe Fltplan.com can show you the clearances most often/recently given between two airports, so that may be another tool for the OP to use when filing.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point, find what works for you!
 
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