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Avery vs Cleaveland Tool

sloengineer

Active Member
I'm having an interesting dimple die result. I'd like to get feedback from the collective....

We purchased tools from Cleaveland required to finish the Van's toolbox. Then when we started the empennage, we bought out a local builder that was selling his tools. He had Avery (now out of business) dimple dies.

My situation: In the main squeeze, both dimple dies create a crisp dimple in the rudder skin. When you look at a reflection, it's sharp without distortion around the dimple. But in the c-frame dimpler (hammer style) I can not get a crisp break on the Cleavelend. The Avery dies create dimples that look exactly the same as the main squeeze. But using the cleaveland dies I get a mound around the dimple. On scrap aluminum of the same thickness, I can create consistent dimples with the avery, but nothing I try on the cleaveland is making a crisp dimple.

Thoughts?

Thank you, guys and gals.
 
Pictures please :)

I don't think the C-Frame meets the definition of consistent/consistency. You are using a dead blow hammer with the C-Frame...aren't you?

In my experience, the only tools that produce a "consistent" set are the mechanical squeezers (main squeeze, CP 214, Numatx, Tatco, etc.) or DRDT-2, I'm sure I've missed a few.
 
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I am sure you have seen this video on the subject

Yes, I've seen that one. Cleaveland makes great videos, and following this video I can make great dimples with the main squeeze using both the Cleaveland and Avery dies.

I couldn't get a picture to illustrate as well as he did in the video, but the slight roundness of the under squeezed dimple is what I get on my Cleaveland dies using the c-frame.

It's not a major deal I guess. I'll make sure to use the Avery dies in the c-frame. I would just like to know in case I wear out/damage the Avery. I can't replace them.
 
C-frame

Sounds like under dimpling. Hit it harder.
I disagree on consistency. My C-frame produces far superior dimples to any other tool. It's my primary dimpling tool. I use a 2lb dead blow and hit each one twice really hard. I went through 4 HF dead blow hammers so far. They warranty them for life. Free hammers.
 
I used the Avery dimple dies and a C-Frame. I hit that with a hard nylon hammer (also from Avery) twice for every dimple. Hold the dies down against the material and in the hole, then two quick hard BAM, BAM's with the hammer. Channel your inner Bamm-Bamm Rubble and really whack it. :) You will get crisp dimples. I have other dimple dies and honestly didn't see any difference with the crispness of the dimple or their shapes not being perfectly flush to the head.
 
Every builder has an opinion how to get the perfect dimple. It is a simple procedure but has a definite technique that is unique to each builder. SELF defined & only learned through experience.

My personal technique when using the C-Channel tool (note, I view tools to be used, no cherished)
-Use good quality dimple dies (example Cleaveland Spring Back dies, Avery had them too)
-Use good quality ear protection
-Use a ball peen hammer (I don't use dead blows because I can't measure the hit force consistently) your experience will dictate the hammer weight & force.
-Practice on scrap material LOTS.
-With experience you will judge force of a double hit, first hit to generally form the dimple shape & a follow up one that will define the shape. The first one will be a 'thud' sound generally with the second hit being a more crisp sound.
-Again, experience will bring consistency in your results and you will build a repertoire of hitting forces for the various thicknesses of material you will be dimpling in the future.

This is one of the toughest little actions to teach in Sportair classes I ran...
 
For impact dimpling with the C-Frame, make sure the impact point is over a vertical structural member on your work bench, like a table leg. If it is in the middle of the bench, you can get too much deformation/bounce/flex out of the work bench boards, which absorbs some of the impact energy you are trying to impart on the metal.
 
-With experience you will judge force of a double hit, first hit to generally form the dimple shape & a follow up one that will define the shape. The first one will be a 'thud' sound generally with the second hit being a more crisp sound.
-

+1

I use a framing hammer and judge completion by sound. If you do some practice, you will notice the difference is sound when it is fully dimpled. You will also get a complete 360* witness circle when fully dimpled.

2 hits is enough ONCE you calibrate your arm for the amount of force required to get it done.

Larry
 
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