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Rattle Cans

Anyone have an opinion on duplicolor self etching primer? Saw it at Walmart for $4 something a can. Almost looks to be same color as Zinc chromate primer too!

I get it at Autozone but I don't leave it by itself. I go over it with Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel. When dry the combination is tough.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=16336&page=2

Primer01.jpg
 
I picked up a can of the duplicolor self-etching primer the other day to play around with, so far I'm pretty impressed for rattle-can. I put a light, but full-coverage, coat on a piece of scape angle yesterday. The only prep I did was to wipe the angle off with a rag. Today I took the sharp corner of a bit of poplar I had laying around and rubbed it agross the surface with a significant ammout of force. The paint held up great and the rubbing only polished the surface. Sharp objects like a scribe scratched through pretty easy though. As a plus, the primer sands quite well just like "sandable" primer.

I don't know what kind of corrosion protection this stuff would provide, I looked at the MSDS and there is no mention of zinc chromate or chromium. Looking at paint systems for aircraft, most list zinc chromate as the first component on the MSDS. However, the Duplicolor MSDS is missing about 10% of components (The % by volume/weight only adds up to 90.5%). I guessing that the active solids are part of this missing 10%...
 
Several methods

On my RV8 I used Alumiprep/Alodine/PPG DP40. Time consuming and a health/environment nightmare. On the RV6A I am using scotchbrite/Marhyde Rattle Can/Cardinal custom mix Grey enamel. Much easier and less of a concern on the health/environment front. On the RV10, some experimentation by using Alumiprep/Alodine/Marhyde Rattle Can on the parts that can be batched in a tub to etch and alodine. The larger parts/surfaces are getting scotchbrite/Marhyde.

An friend of mine in his 70s laughs at us. He was a mechanic with Delta and worked at Piper. His contention is that the Alclad coating will outlast all of us and there are not enough museums to hold these primed airplanes. He may have a point, my 46 Ercoupe does not have any corrosion on it.
 
An friend of mine in his 70s laughs at us. He was a mechanic with Delta and worked at Piper. His contention is that the Alclad coating will outlast all of us and there are not enough museums to hold these primed airplanes. He may have a point, my 46 Ercoupe does not have any corrosion on it.

He may very well have a point regarding Alclad, but the main issue is the climate. The corrosion rate of aluminum in coastal areas compared with inland areas is typical a factor 100-500. 50 years of operation inland will show the same corrosion as a month or two at the coast.
 
About 4 cases to do all areas inside the plane. I plan to live on the coast one day and went to a more extreme and I mean everything.

If I had to do it over again, I would buy the 2 part primer that you mix from Sherwin Williams which is about the toughest thing I have seen except when I need to prime just one little piece. My friend building a 9A here has used it and his results are stellar.

Something I did learn is if you are planning to top coat a primed area, don't prime it until you are ready spray the top coat. Otherwise, get ready to do a quick sand of the primer if you want good adhession.
 
Two reasons

to prime that I can think of.
As a base for color/ appearance
As protection against elements
Three things needed for corrosion
Moisture, electron flow, and dis-similar metals (or salts on metal)
Remove any one of these three and corrosion won't happen.
Epoxy primers (and others) stop moisture and electron flow, cromate primers provide a sacrificail material to corrode, pure aluminum (clad) turns to aluminum oxide with no pits (same as sandpaper grit, tough stuff).
I like zinc cromate on clean unscuffed clad, epoxy on dis-similar metals and some times packing tape (on nutplates) to prevent electron flow.

Andrew
 
Priming

I was a Painter Trainer and Senior Systems Tech Counselor with BASF Chemicals for 7 Years. I can tell you that my 8 emp will be with a rattle can. Shake and spray don't look back, keep pounding rivets...
 
Rattle cans on fiberglass

I'm building an RV-12. I self- etch primed aluminum mating surfaces, but not the exterior surfaces.

I fiberglassed my canopy and want to prime for final sanding, seeing what I have, etc., preferably with rattle can lacquer like mar-hyde, etc.

I dont want to screw up the possibility of a conventional 2 part exterior paint job.

At the same time, It looks like people use a 2 part epoxy primer followed by a catalyzed primer surfacer i.e. k36.

Are rattle cans compatible with PPG epoxy?
 
Rattle Can Primer -

Anyone heard of TEMPO AVIATION PRIMER (A901)? Aviation mechanics at Long Beach Flying Club recommend this. It's about $7.35/can in case lots. Never heard of it but they really like it on new and old aluminum surfaces.

Thanks for the input.
 
I have recently used one can each of all the Tempo non chromate primers. The 901 is the Chromate Free version if I remember correctly. Per the can it had excelent corrosion properties but was only rated "good" for scratch resistance while the other Tempo primers were rated excellent. The Zinc Phosphate (701, yellow and 702 green) is also good but has a 48 hour complete dry time. The Zinc Oxided sucks (801, I think), and I had to soak the nozel in paint thinner to get it to spray, then it clogged often but I liked the dry time and scratch resistance specs on the can. Chief Aircraft has the 901 and 701/702 for about $6.95 a can. I think the Zinc Oxide version may be discontinued becuse I could only find yellow and it was hard to find someone who carried it, no wonder because it splattered and clogged.

My choice in primers ended up being the Krylon 0344 Tough Coat primer in green. For price it was the cheapest, about $3.50 a can. It fit my criteria exactly, easy to apply, non lethal compaired to zinc chromate, mil spec TIP-1757 corosion properties, dries fast and cheap. I got one can off ebay to try and liked it better than the Tempo products. It is hard to find as a single can. I eventually found it at www.Jeyco.com item #845255 and order a case of 12, but I think you can order less to try. It does go on a bit dark and sharpie marks are hard to see compaired to the yellow colors.

I have also used the AFS (now Stewart Systems) water based product but it required a paint gun and a seperate etching process. Good stuff if you dont mind the extra prep time, and it's neighbor friendly.

I have since switched to rattle cans for the easier use and the krylon works best for me.

Branden
RV-9 empannage
Thinking about switching to a RV-8 Fastback
 
Anyone heard of TEMPO AVIATION PRIMER (A901)? Aviation mechanics at Long Beach Flying Club recommend this. It's about $7.35/can in case lots. Never heard of it but they really like it on new and old aluminum surfaces.

Thanks for the input.

According to the Aircraft Spruce website, it looks like A-901 has been replaced by A-701 Zinc Phosphate primer.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/zinc.php

I've used a lot of Tempo Zinc Oxide A-802 Green. It scratches pretty easily at first, but after a couple of weeks it is reasonably hard to scratch. It wasn't anywhere near as durable as epoxy primer, but it was a lot less hassle. I had some problems with clogging when using partially-full cans, so eventually I made sure I had enough parts to use an entire can at once. This seemed to solve the problem. I also tried to shoot it when the temperature was about 70 to 75 degrees. Spruce carries another brand of rattle-can primer called PTI. A friend of mine tried a few cans and didn't have any problems with clogging.
 
Primers - thanks

Thanks for the replies - I'll continue to look and learn - fortunately, there is no rush. I thought that I wanted to use Stewart Systems group of paints and I thought that they were non-toxic. In their demo of painting a C-150 wing, the painter suits up and wears a pesticide type face mask so I guess that their stuff is toxic too. :confused:
 
safety equipment

If you are misting anything that isn't air into the air around you, it's probably best not to get the stuff, whatever it is, inside you. Cleaner too.
 
Tempo A-702 Prep

With much excitement I have finally purchased a full set of tools from a builder who sadly cannot build any longer. I hope to put them to good use, and will soon be ordering some practice kits, and hopefully an empennage next Fall or early 2022.

Because frankly I cannot afford to build a plan, if I am honest, I plan to spread the build over a very long period of time. Like many others who dream big but don't have the wallets to support it, I have done an immense amount of research on every topic I can and have planned out as much as I can.

On that note, I am heavily leaning toward priming with Tempo A-702 zinc phosphate spray cans, as I will only be priming small amounts spread over long periods of time (years probably). Everything I have read and seen indicates it only needs clean, dry aluminum.

1. However, I am assuming it is still prudent to do the same prep everyone describes for other primers to remove any grease or dirt, right?

2. Does anyone with experience know if it is necessary to clear with alumiprep then acetone, or just acetone?

Because my build will be spread over years, I am concerned about protecting from corrosion or damage in storage and therefore would like to paint or at least prime the outside skins / surface as I go. For example, my empennage pieces may become living room conversation pieces for several years before they become affixed to a fuselage.

3. I have noticed no one primes both sides of the skins before assembly - is there a reason for this other than potentially scratching it up during riveting?

4. Would it be better to assemble components and then spray a whole piece, like the horizonal stab, with primer?

5. I have also seen people say that for painting the plane they don't prime underneath the paint, presumably to save weight - would paint alone be adequate protection?

Thanks very much!
Mike
 
Prep

1. However, I am assuming it is still prudent to do the same prep everyone describes for other primers to remove any grease or dirt, right?

2. Does anyone with experience know if it is necessary to clear with alumiprep then acetone, or just acetone?

3. I have noticed no one primes both sides of the skins before assembly - is there a reason for this other than potentially scratching it up during riveting?

4. Would it be better to assemble components and then spray a whole piece, like the horizonal stab, with primer?

5. I have also seen people say that for painting the plane they don't prime underneath the paint, presumably to save weight - would paint alone be adequate protection?

Thanks very much!
Mike

1. Yes. Read this. https://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com/p/paint.html
I'm no expert but spent alot of time studying surface prep for paint.
2. Read #1 again.
3. Because the paint shop can't accept reaponsibility for spraying over someone elses primer. Can't guarantee it was prepped or applied correctly. If you plan to be the painter, study the manufacturer data sheets on compatibilty. Read #1 again
4. Interior? Fay surfaces are most important so they should be treated before assembly. Exterior? Read #3 again. Search for Primer. Grab a six pack and start reading!
5. No. Exterior paints are designed to chemically bond to a primer. Usually the same manufacturer. The primer is designed to adhere to the metal. The whole system is designed to be applied within certain time frames so they chemically bond.
Sorry. I'm not being condescending. Just trying to keep it funny. Honestly, most quality primers and paints would probably stick just fine to a surface wiped with a wet paper towel, but why not kick it up a notch. As you can tell, surface prep is my pet peeve. I once had to strip a small section of top skin maybe 6"x 36". It was sprayed with P60G2 and Jet Flex SB. Took me all day with paint stripper, lacquer thinner and scotch brite to get it down to aluminum. Even then, there was still paint I couldn't remove.
 
Hi Mike,

I'm using the yellow Tempo primer on my 7A build. I just lightly go over the surfsce with maroon Scotch-Brite, clean very well with acetone and lightly prime. This stuff is not as durable as other popular primers like SEM, Dupli-Color, etc. But, it will provide excellent corrision resistance that the others can't quite match.

I've done my own 173hr salt fog test with the Tempo along with the other common options. The Tempo was the only one that prevented any corrosion. Not the most scientific test, but it was good enough for me. Granted, this was done with non-alclad material, so keep that in mind.

Primer test: https://www.jessesrv7a.com/primers-a-salt-fog-test/

With all that said, while just fine for internal areas that really won't be touched after closing, like all your tail parts, I will use a two-part primer for any wear areas, including fusealage.
 
I acid etch (Alumiprep), but usually don't bother with alodine. The important stuff gets alodine, rear spar carry-through, probably the longerons, but that's about it. It's horribly toxic stuff and not likely necessary. When I build an airliner that gets soaked in deice fluid daily for 6 months of the year, and left on the ramp during every downpour then I'll alodine everything.
 
Tempo ZP Primer

Thanks very much for the replies! I am going to go with the Tempo rattle cans. Overall I know it will be more expensive, but given I'm going to be doing a slow, slow, slow build it saves worrying about expiring product and some spray gun equipment and hassle. I'm probably going to do my own durability test, but for any areas that are going to see ware, like in the cockpit, I'll probably paint over the primer sooner than later. Ideally, with a Tempo product designed to work with their primer but I've got to research it more first.

Thanks again!
Mike
 
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