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Pop Rivet Dimple technique?

xblueh2o

Well Known Member
Maybe I am just not doing it right....

I am dimpling the skin for my HS and have a few holes that just can't be reached with either the hand squeezer or the DRDT-2 without really un-bending the skin which I don't want to do so that leaves me with the pop rivet dimple method. Practicing on some scrap sheet I have around I find I cannot get as nice a dimple with the pop rivet set up as I achieve with the other methods. When I put a rivet in the hole to test, the manufactured head sits slightly proud of the surface. Pop rivet dimple a second time, no change. Try a third time and the nail breaks.
Is there a preferred direction to pull? What I mean is, should the male or female die be against the puller or does it even matter?
How are all of you doing it and what are your results?
 
I think you have accurately described pop-rivet dimple technique. :D The short answer is that it just doesn't dimple as nicely as the other tools.

The longer answer: Try different brands of nails, some will break too early.
 
I think you have accurately described pop-rivet dimple technique. :D The short answer is that it just doesn't dimple as nicely as the other tools.

The longer answer: Try different brands of nails, some will break too early.

What Kevin said. And some nails tend to pull through the dies because of small heads. Another technique that I've used is to put a big piece of steel (like 3/8 to half inch thick) hanging over the edge of the workbench a few inches (secure the other end to the workbench!), drill a hole to accept a regular dimple die, lay the sheet to be dimpled over the die in the big piece of steel (which may require some contortion or re-orienting the piece of steel). Carefully place the other die over the top of your Al sheet, and whack it with a hammer (I usually put this die in a small piece of steel, like a very thick washer, so I don't ruin the end with a hammer). Kind of a makeshift C-frame arrangement. You do have to be quite careful (easier with two people) and it is not a fast way to make dimples, but it can give you a better dimple than the poprivet technique.

Cheers,
Greg
 
pop rivet dimples

Definitely not an expert as all I've built is the tool box. I found if using a hand puller the dimples were not as good as when I used a pneumatic puller. The dimples made with the pneumatic puller had sharper edges I guess due to stronger and sharper pull. I also put a tight fitting washer on the nail first to help stop the nail from pulling thru the die.
 
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Don't forget the vise-grip dimple tools either, I've used them more than the pop rivet dies but when you need the pop dies nothing else will do. Can anyone tell me the nail size for the 40 and 30 pop dimple dies? Being frugal I hate to buy a box and find out they are the wrong size. I miss the days when you could go to a hardware store and ask for a few of these and a few of those, they weigh them and you pay by the pound. But yes, the dies don't do quite as well but if you progressively squeeze the dies a little at a time they do pretty darn good. Yes the nails will break a lot too, hence why I am asking about the size.
 
I tried an experiment today with the dimple dies. I used the shaft of a pull rivet for the #40 dies. Removed it from the pull rivet body with a few taps. It pulled the dies quite nicely. More expensive that a nail, but the head is solid.
 
Honestly, I bought the pop rivet dimplers for 3/32 and 1/8 sizes, and I've found them to have very limited usefulness. I had no problem using the C-frame for all my skin dimples on the empennage, but the trailing edges of the ribs definitely need something special...ut there's not even enough $^% room to get the pop rivet dies in there. So far I've been resorting to some ghetto methods using the pop rivet dies and a thin nose yoker; a vise grip dimpler is definitely in my future.

If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't get the pop rivet dies, and instead would go straight to the vise grips.
 
I use both vise grip and pop-rivet dimplers, I think they both have their uses. The pop-rivet dimples aren't fully dimpled, just use a couple of turns of your countersink to make the rivet sit flush.
 
Just make sure you actually have enough space for a rivet at the places where such a tool (the cleveland tool) is needed!
 
I guess I maybe have a different technique or something.
I've built quite a few airplanes and use the pop-rivet dimpler and vice-grip dimpler exclusively. Never had a problem. I find the pop-rivet dimpler to work perfectly.
I set up my pneumatic rivet puller to pull just the right amount of pressure and can dimple a complete wing skin usually with 2-3 nails.
I have several Workmanship and Grand Champion awards so the dimples can't be too bad.
 

I found one of these in my tool cabinet the other night. (AFTER I spent a ton of time figuring out a way to dimple the trailing ends of my elevator ribs)

I don't remember buying it. I figure either my dementia is kicking in again, or the tool fairy is bringing me occasional gifts. I much prefer the latter, and if the tool fairy is listening, I'd love it if a few hundred silver clecos would show up magically, though I'd also settle for a 3" squeezer yoke.

:p
 
Can anyone tell me the nail size for the 40 and 30 pop dimple dies?

Not sure about the 30's but the dies I have for 40s work with the 4D finish nails I bought this morning.

Mel, I am curious about your experience with the pop dimples since you seem to have the method worked out. As best you recall, when you made a pop dimple and put a test rivet in the hole was the head of the rivet proud or flush with the skin? I played around with it a little more today on some scrap. If I put a rivet with a long enough tail in the hole that I can pull on it to draw the rivet all the way in I still end up with the head being slightly proud of the surface when I draw a straight edge across the rivet/hole. You can feel the difference between a rivet in a pop dimple vs. a C frame or squeezer dimple.

For those of you who have completed a Horizontal Stab, what method did you use to dimple the skin for the mid span nose rib (HS-707 on the 8)? Did you open the skin up so far that you were able to dimple the two forward most holes? Did that present any issues when assembling later? Just wondering if my reluctance to un-bend the skins that far open is unfounded.

Thanks to all for your input.
 
For those of you who have completed a Horizontal Stab, what method did you use to dimple the skin for the mid span nose rib (HS-707 on the 8)? Did you open the skin up so far that you were able to dimple the two forward most holes? Did that present any issues when assembling later? Just wondering if my reluctance to un-bend the skins that far open is unfounded.

I spread the skin and dimpled with the DRDT-2. Not a problem. An extra set of hands might help.
 
I just used some tape to hold the skin open and used a standard C-Frame. Another person/third hand would be an option if you had a helper too.

IMG_0494_zps6203807e.jpg
 
I just used some tape to hold the skin open and used a standard C-Frame. Another person/third hand would be an option if you had a helper too.

IMG_0494_zps6203807e.jpg

I just recruited my partner in crime to come out and hold the skin out of the way so I could hit them with the C-frame. Did the same thing for the rudder and elevator skins. The only places in the tail so far where I didn't use either the C-frame or a squeezer were at the narrow ends of some of the ribs on the rudder and elevator.
 
I just used some tape to hold the skin open and used a standard C-Frame. Another person/third hand would be an option if you had a helper too.

Am I seeing the set up correctly?
You have the inboard edge of the skin taped down to the bench to keep that half of the skin more or less horizontal and then you also secured the other half of the skin more or less vertical. Then you move the C-frame where you want it rather than moving the skin on a stationary C-frame?
I'll have to try that when I get back from my trip. I am down to just six holes to dimple (3 on each side for the mid span nose rib) before I can start driving rivets and actually assembling something.
 
Actually the skin is taped to itself. The tape runs from the area you can see, down to the spin and the tension on the tape is holding the skin open. Duct tape would have been stronger, as the blue tape I had used was too weak and broke a few times - thus the multiple strips you can see.
 
Mel, I am curious about your experience with the pop dimples since you seem to have the method worked out. As best you recall, when you made a pop dimple and put a test rivet in the hole was the head of the rivet proud or flush with the skin? I played around with it a little more today on some scrap. If I put a rivet with a long enough tail in the hole that I can pull on it to draw the rivet all the way in I still end up with the head being slightly proud of the surface when I draw a straight edge across the rivet/hole. You can feel the difference between a rivet in a pop dimple vs. a C frame or squeezer dimple.

Rivets sit flush!
 
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