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  #31  
Old 11-20-2011, 06:50 PM
cristianomc's Avatar
cristianomc cristianomc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusBiz View Post
+1

How many actually have flown the full new Skyview and AFS? Only those people have the experience needed to give a real world answer to this.
Another question: is these EFIS reliable? Will I loose it in flight? Hangs? Restarts?
  #32  
Old 11-20-2011, 07:34 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,293
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Gus, There is a -10 soon to be launched with the latest AFS in it, if I get a chance to fly with it I will let you know.

I have 300 hours behind the classic panels, and we use this IFR. A D100 and D180. No complaints at all. I had about 400 on a D10 VFR as well.

I have about 30 behind a skyview and I do find the synthetic vission and HUD like display a bit of hard work, but perhaps that is just hoping from one to another and I have so much more time on classics.

What I do not like with the Skyview is the two toggle knobs, in flight you need to adjust the following in order of demand, Heading/Track, Altitude, scale on map (Range) and QNH. So you need two screens and the layout set up just right.....and then a knob is at the far side of the aeroplane.

The AP74 and HS34 is a nice user interface

Photo during the build.....
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1288578844
  #33  
Old 11-20-2011, 07:43 PM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,293
Default

Quote:
Another question: is these EFIS reliable? Will I loose it in flight? Hangs? Restarts?
I can answer that for the Dynon. The classic panels I have had which have now done around 2000 hrs (not all flown by me) and no hang's at all, but if you do boot them up inflight they have an excellent recovery.

The Skyview in a redundent system as dynonsupport has detailed will recover from a failed unit very fast indeed, you would not lose control of the plane in 1 second or so, and the recovery is that quick.

If you had to reboot both systems at the same time in flight I do not think you would have to but that takes a while.

I wonder if the AFS for example which is an excellent looking product behaves much different?
  #34  
Old 11-21-2011, 12:28 AM
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GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10inOz View Post

The AP74 and HS34 is a nice user interface
I had it understaood that these two don't go with the Skyview software. That Skyview does all the work for you.

Is that not true?

And yeah if you get to fly the -10, I would love to know whether the AFS is all everyone says. I just like the wide screen apect of the Dynon and I personally just like the way they have rendered the SV.
__________________
Gus Bisbal

RV7

Obsession only exists when someone else isn't doing it too.
  #35  
Old 11-21-2011, 04:57 AM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
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Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
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There is a REALLY nice RV7 down there owned by a Virgin pilot with the AFS (couple of years old maybe), also John Clements...just do not remember what he has in his. Search his posts here and have a look. They are all down there in your part of Oz.

Otherwise come up here.

Jake Jansen in Adelaide would be worth talking to as well, especially if you need someone to do the wiring for you.
  #36  
Old 11-21-2011, 08:43 PM
rwtalbot rwtalbot is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 252
Default A few ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusBiz View Post
+1
How many actually have flown the full new Skyview and AFS? Only those people have the experience needed to give a real world answer to this.
I think you have to remember the lead time between someone purchasing an EFIS and flying IFR. I purchased my AFS 4500 in the initial batch (before Rob released at Oshkosh). At that time it was clear that AFS were the leader. They had the best screen, best AHARS, best user interface etc. Rob has always said his products were designed for IFR - Dynon has not. Today the world is a bit different with Skyview on the scene.

My point is that in order to have experience flying behind this stuff in the soup takes time. In my case probably at least two years from purchase to flying, then some time to bed the aircraft and pilot in before I flew any night/IFR. IFR flying requires a complete aircraft system, which works together to fly safely. The EFIS is a small part of that. If you keep that in mind you will easily build a capable IFR ship with your budget.

I now have 3 years and over 350 hours in my 7A. I regularly fly IFR in IFR conditions. I sat my CIR SE initial issue (for the second time) in the aircraft and have approvals for Night, ILS, VOR, RNAV and DGE (We don't have LPV approaches here in Australia).

For what it's worth, the equipment in my panel consists of:
• AFS 4500s (upgraded around 9 months ago)
• Garmin 430W
• Garmin SL30 Com
• Garmin Audio Panel
• Garmin GTX 330 ES (ADS-B compliant transponder), with Ameriking Encoder
• Garmin CDI
• Trutrak VSGV with close to the latest firmware (I did not upgrade to the AFS unit due to feature limitations)
• WX-500 Stormscope (purchased second hand on EBay and installed)
• Backup steam gauges: Vans ASI, ALT, United 2.5" VSI, Trutrak electronic TC, Vertical Card Compass.

My main comments are:

The AFS is rock solid, 4500 and 4500s have never let me down in the air, more importantly it wouldn’t be a significant problem if they did. The new 4500s is an improvement with the dual knobs and joystick allowing much better control of the bugs/autopilot. The synthetic vision is not that great using Australian data. It may be better in the US.

Having the AFS HSI on screen and the CDI allows you to display GPS and VOR at the same time on either unit. This is helpful for intercepting VOR radials while using GPS guidance.

The Trutrak VSGV is a necessary item and I would never consider using a system which consists of servos attached to the EFIS. At minimum I can put it in heading/alt hold mode. Consider not mounting the AP disconnect switch to your stick and/or putting in an annunciator for the AP. It is not so funny when you bump the disconnect switch in IMC, even if you notice pretty quickly. I do not have auto-trim. That was a safety decision and I have never needed it. Sorcerer would be wasted with my setup as the AFS + VSGV can do everything you need.

I am 100% happy with my back up steam gauges.

The WX-500 is one of the best investments I made. In Australia we do not have NEXRAD and the WX-500 gives me the confidence to launch on days where ISOL TS are forecast. The AFS EFIS provides the heading output required by the WX-500 to plot strikes correctly, which are displayed on the 430W.

As Rob said, the AFS cannot display strike data on the map. I do not own a map license (I have tested it). With only one EFIS screen I did not like all that data displayed at the same time. What works for a VFR pilot, will quickly overwhelm an IFR pilot in IMC/turbulence so I doubt I would use it even if the AFS supported it. Also, the data is somewhat limited in this part of the world. In Australia we have cheap 3G Internet which makes weather data available on an iPad. The iPad mapping and approach plate systems are far cheaper and more capable than most of the EFIS maps.

IMO traffic is a luxury under the IFR. Nice to have but heavy and expensive unless you live in the US and can receive it from ADS-B, UAT or the radar site.

Remember at the end of the day, you cannot fly through ice in an RV. Flying approaches to the minima is not something to do lightly. No matter how much money you spend there are days when you may need to launch VFR and keep out of the weather/ice using your eyes and/or not go at all.

I can’t help with Skyview. I have seen one, but not flown behind it. They are competitive on price and for a VFR / NVFR ship it would be hard to beat. However, my preference for IFR would still be AFS.

Lastly, customer service and warranty support are important. Both AFS and Trutrak have been outstanding. Garmin, more particularly their local dealer, not so much. I can't speak to the others.

Cheers
Richard

Rv-7A - Flying,
Sydney Australia

Last edited by rwtalbot : 11-21-2011 at 08:46 PM.
  #37  
Old 11-21-2011, 11:31 PM
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GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
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Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 211
Default Thank you

Excellent response Richard.

Thank you.
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RV7

Obsession only exists when someone else isn't doing it too.
  #38  
Old 11-22-2011, 12:41 AM
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dhall_polo dhall_polo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cumming, GA
Posts: 610
Lightbulb my experience

Adding to the pile.

I have a 3 years flying with AF3500, GNS430W, SL40, GTX330, PS8000, and WXWorks/XM weather. For AP, I've flown with both trutrak dgvs and the afs trutrak (almost the same). It took me a while to adjust to the button changes on the latter, but both work fine.

I bought the AFS back before they had moving map, synthetic, etc. Unlike everything else in my panel, it only got better and better over the years. The support has always been top notch. Last winter, I took the panel out and rewired the AF3500 to take advantage of all the integration with the GNS430, stuff that wasn't possible back in the build. While I was at it, I also added an AP selector switch so I can let the Garmin or AFS drive me around. Fantastic! Everything works together as well as I'd hoped. I'm (non-current) instrument rated, and I've done coupled practice approaches with no issue. I use the flight director capability on every cross country. Rob's youtube videos are pretty representative of what to expect.

Boa Sorte.
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  #39  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:07 AM
Alex D Alex D is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 114
Default AF4500 in RV7 transition trainer

I have two AF4500 on my RV7 transition trainer and after 250 hs of training and about 50 practice approaches they have not had any problems at all. If they can sustain the bounces and rough student landings for this long, I will not have any problems flying them IFR when the time presents it self.

http://www.rvtraining.com/html/rv7_panel_.html

Alex De Dominicis
  #40  
Old 11-22-2011, 03:30 PM
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akschu akschu is offline
 
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Location: Houston, Alaska
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Default

I wrote at length about this in another thread a while back so do a search, but here is a quick recap.

Not only is the EFIS itself important, but the AHRS (the sensor) needs to be up to snuff or it doesn't matter how nice the EFIS is. Out of all of the experimental EFIS vendors, only one uses a certified AHRS (though not certified in their install) that has the same degree of calibration as certified units. That same EFIS vendor uses ARM based processors instead of X86 processors which I believe is the right choice in this application due to the low heat, low power, passive cooling, which I believe is ultimately a more robust hardware package.

This same vendor also uses LED backlit displays, has software that integrates with other autopilots, and has had a complete IFR package since the day their new product line start shipping.

I bought one and haven't flown it in IFR conditions yet, but after playing with it and installing it, I don't suspect I'll have a problem.

schu
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