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  #11  
Old 11-18-2008, 11:09 AM
terrykohler terrykohler is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,020
Default

Adam:
Won't work. Transparent attempts to circumvent the regs are not looked kindly upon by the FAA. My take on this would be that an instructor taking this path might be putting his ticket in jeopardy.

Epsound:
If you're talking about ckeckrides thru the FSDO, they probably won't ride in an eqperimental. At the Detroit FSDO, examiners won't ride in an aircraft until is has been deemed "airworthy" by their maintenance staff. This involves examination of all aircraft logs as well as a review of AD compliance (a log entry stating "all ADs complied with" won't cut it.) The FAA here pretty much limits their rides to CFIA, CFII, and ATP activities. On the other hand, you may find a DE willing to ride in your homebuilt.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2008, 12:06 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,885
Default What Terry said.....

.....some CFI's won't ride in an experimental. I tried to get an instrument proficiency check from a man who runs a private flight school and he adamantly refused.."No way I'm riding in an experimental!!".. even tho' his 182's were ragged out and my airplane was brand new.

I found a CFII buddy with a Glassair and he gladly rode in my -6. They're out there but it's just a matter of finding them. This is where EAA chapter meetings help....finding them.

I'd rather avoid any contact with an FSDO anyway. Find a private examiner if at all possible.

Regards,
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46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
Building RV-12, Wings, fuse, emp complete. FWF in progress.
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2008, 01:49 PM
Epsound Epsound is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 214
Default I see

It may just be my inexperience, but this sounds a bit like a 'racket' to me. After all, I don't see what all the hubub is about with experimental aircraft. Don't 'humans' put together and certify communicial aircraft as well, and doesn't the FAA inspect the experimentals as well? And so on. Seems like the regulation and some of the inspectors are a bit dated. It's almost like (GA) is a thorn in the side. I don't see much difference in learning and testing in either a commercial or an experimental. All the inspector really needs to do is check the panel to see if it has the required equipment. If regulation doesn't specify that a person has to learn in a 'commercial' aircraft, then we shouldn't be fighting an uphill battle to get a check-out in one.

Just my two cents...........

I'll be hoping to find someone like you did Pierre.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2008, 03:04 PM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,885
Default Yeah, I agree to a point

....but certified airplanes cost an awful lot of money and endure a lot of stability testing, trim response issues and a host of other tests to prove or disprove flight characteristics, which we don't have to go through or pay for.

Not only that but they have to prove that each and every subsequent airplane off the line is a virtual clone of the ones certified and they have to have enough in-house verifiable quality/consistency controls....all this raising the costs. Certified airplanes are a known quantity (or should be) and ours are not.

You also have to get past the mindset of folks who've only been around certed airplanes all their lives and have heard the "horror" stories about experimentals.....so we have a job to do to get them educated about the characteristics of our RV's. A friend of mine owns a Cirrus but after we flew my -6 around and taught him rolls and few other whifferdills, he had to have one, so it's being built in my hangar.

Regards,
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46 years ag pilot/CFI
Air Tractor 502/PT-6
Building RV-12, Wings, fuse, emp complete. FWF in progress.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2008, 04:28 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Not to mention that the word" experimental" is not conducive to instilling confidence in some passengers.

Just as the term "uncontrolled" airport is being replaced with "non-towered," we should find a better word to replace experimental. And Amateur built is not it.

Just a wag but "custom" is better.
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2008, 04:32 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee View Post

Just a wag but "custom" is better.
Been tried for many years. Ain't gonna happen.
The word Experimental is here to stay.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,000 certifications accomplished.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2008, 06:39 PM
rmt006 rmt006 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Forney, TX
Posts: 9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierre smith View Post
Ryan, it took a couple of weeks and another inspection during which I was issued new op-lims that include my being able to train for compensation and hire.

Regards,
Thanks for the help Pierre!
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Alex D Alex D is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 114
Default Transition Training

All of these points are correct, but there was one that was not mentioned. It is legal for you to hire a CFI to teach you or your family in your personal RV, as long as the aircraft is not in Phase One. I know I have been asked by RV?ers to ride with them in their maiden flight.

Alex De Dominicis
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2008, 07:58 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,887
Default

I hate to say this, but if you want to train someone in your own plane for free, you might want to read your insurance policy carefully 1st. Even if the FAA is ok with it, most (if not all) of the policies I've had on experimentals exclude 'training' from coverage. You might be able to get a rider for coverage if you ask. I actually found an underwriter once that would write an 'open pilot' policy on my -4. It was about 50% more expensive & I only kept it a year since I never actually needed to use it.

Charlie
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2008, 08:29 AM
wjnmd wjnmd is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ft Myers, FL
Posts: 276
Default RV-7A flight instruction

Hi Alex:

I read your post in the VAF forum and just wanted to make sure I got the information right. I built an RV-7A and have completed all of the fly-off time and now I want to have my son learn to fly. I will pay for his lessons but I just want to make sure I am correct in that he can learn to fly with a willing instructor in my RV-7A. I reviewed the FARs and it appears that is legal but I just wanted to make sure I am right.

Thanks,
Bill Near
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