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Its almost prop swapping time!

Brantel

Well Known Member
My new Hartzell should be here Monday! Hooray! Never thought that the girl would ever get the chance to swap from FP to CS but here we are.

Question for those that have gone thru the process before or have knowledge of the requirements....I have the modern OL's...

What do I have to do as far as the FSDO goes?

Write em a letter telling em I am swapping?

Put the plane back in Phase I for 5 hrs minimum?

Can I use the same test area as before?

Send the FSDO a revised Form 8130-6?

Logbook entry, new W&B?

What else???

Do I need to hear back from them before flying or ?

Thanks!
 
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Your operating limitations will tell you what to do. Normal is a letter to FSDO telling them you are going back into Phase 1, new Airworthiness Application to OKC to update the prop type in their records, then confirmation from FSDO on time back in phase 1, assuming geographical area doesn't change.
 
Communicate privately w/ Mel

He saved my bacon. My FSDO wanted 25 hrs. because they thought I was switching from FP to CS. With Mel's help I succeeded in helping them realize I was just changing from Sensenich metal FP to Catto FP. That got me back to 5 hrs. Perhaps YMMV with your FSDO - you are quite a ways from me.

Larry Tompkins
544WB -6A
W52 Battle Ground, WA
 
Get ready to be thrilled Brian. Much different beast. Takeoffs and climbs will really impress.
 
Get ready to be thrilled Brian. Much different beast. Takeoffs and climbs will really impress.

I was spoiled by my friend/instructor Bob Dougherty early in my transition training several years ago... His 7 has a CS prop and I have been wanting one ever since!
 
Any advice on how to complete the revised Form 8130-6?

Do I need a DAR to inspect and sign it?

Do I fill the whole thing out again just like the original but replace the pertinent info?

Do I send it to OK or to the local FSDO?

???
 
Any advice on how to complete the revised Form 8130-6?

Do I need a DAR to inspect and sign it?

Do I fill the whole thing out again just like the original but replace the pertinent info?

Do I send it to OK or to the local FSDO?

???

You shouldn't need a DAR. Might ask the FSDO about what needs to be filled out on the 8130-6. If you send it to OKC, I would include a cover letter stating that you changed the propeller and your operating limitations said you had to send in the form to update their records.
 
My new Hartzell should be here Monday! Hooray! Never thought that the girl would ever get the chance to swap from FP to CS but here we are.

Question for those that have gone thru the process before or have knowledge of the requirements....I have the modern OL's...

What do I have to do as far as the FSDO goes?

Write em a letter telling em I am swapping? Yes!

Put the plane back in Phase I for 5 hrs minimum? Yes!

Can I use the same test area as before? Yes!

Send the FSDO a revised Form 8130-6? Yes!

Logbook entry, new W&B? Yes!

What else??? They will probably want to do an inspection.

Do I need to hear back from them before flying or ? Yes!

You may have to educate them, or they may send you to a DAR. Don't let them give you a 40 hr. phase I.

Thanks!

See answers above.
If you know a local knowledgable DAR, it might be simpler to go through him/her. Many FSDO inspectors don't have time to keep up with experimental regs.
p.s. You don't send anything to Oklahoma City! Everything has to go through the FSDO.
 
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Brian,

I swapped props 2 years ago, and my experience matches what Mel and the others said. In my case, I talked to the FSDO inspector ahead of the mod, and he asked me to send him an e-mail describing the mod, and stating that I was re-entering Phase I for 5 hours, with a 100 nm radius test area (what we negotiated in person). He then asked me to send him another e-mail when the 5 hour test period was complete, and the plane was back out of Phase I. E-mail made that process really simple, so it might be worth suggesting to the FSDO fella there (along with an "ample" test area of your preference...never hurts to ask!)

My FSDO rep did not want to do an additional inspection (though he saw it at pylon school before the mod, and was going to see it at the races after the mod...he's the inspector for those events too). So YMMV for the inspection piece.

W&B and the standard log entries for the work and the phase I completion were required too.

We did do an 8130-6, though we were already doing an updated one, to make all my paperwork match better (AW/Reg, etc). I actually didn't realize we had to do one for the prop swap. Figure I would have found that out if we hadn't been doing one already. Good info!

Mel, for my education, and for future use in major mods that may come up down the road ;), can you guide me/us to the reg that shows when a new 8130-6 is required. Dug a little (ineffectively :eek:), but if you can point my nose at it, that would be most appreciated.

Have fun with the swap and test Brian. I'm betting you'll love it!

Cheers,
Bob
 
Brian,
Just went thru the process a couple of weeks ago, Mel is right on, I was able to do it all with the local FSDO, One phone call and a couple of EMails, painless.
Dick
 
Mel, for my education, and for future use in major mods that may come up down the road ;), can you guide me/us to the reg that shows when a new 8130-6 is required. Dug a little (ineffectively :eek:), but if you can point my nose at it, that would be most appreciated.
Cheers,
Bob

The requirement talked about hear can be found in paragraph (19) of the latest version of operating limitations.
Other requirements for when to submit new 8130-6 can be found in FAA Order 8130.2G. Basically any other time you need to submit a new 8130-6 will require a new inspection such as a recurrent or amended airworthiness.
 
Hey - wait a minute

So: Rvmills changed form one model Hartzell c/s to another model; no appreciable change in W&B. Someone will have to 'splain to me why any paperwork, other than a logbook entry, is required here, along with a return to Phase 1 for 5 hrs.

The Reno feds told me I need to document the same thing on my plane, and go back into Phase 1 for 5 hrs, then tore up the paperwork in front of me when I showed up to race. Huh?

The change from FP to CS I understand, but simply changing models of CS??

Help me Obi Wan Asberry - you're my only hope!:D

Carry on!
Mark
 
Would the change from a wood FP prop to a Sensenich ground adjustable composite prop be considered the equivalent as an FP-to-FP swap?

I am looking into switching to that prop since it's half the cost of switching to CS.
 
So: Rvmills changed form one model Hartzell c/s to another model; no appreciable change in W&B. Someone will have to 'splain to me why any paperwork, other than a logbook entry, is required here, along with a return to Phase 1 for 5 hrs.
The Reno feds told me I need to document the same thing on my plane, and go back into Phase 1 for 5 hrs, then tore up the paperwork in front of me when I showed up to race. Huh?
The change from FP to CS I understand, but simply changing models of CS??
Help me Obi Wan Asberry - you're my only hope!:D
Carry on!
Mark

Changing from C/S to C/S does NOT require a new 8130-6.
The subject of this thread started about changing from F/P to C/S.
Changing any prop requires a new phase I and maybe a new W&B.
You have it correct.
 
Would the change from a wood FP prop to a Sensenich ground adjustable composite prop be considered the equivalent as an FP-to-FP swap? Yes! The wording of "controllable propeller" in the operating limitations means "cockpit controllable".

I am looking into switching to that prop since it's half the cost of switching to CS.

You will need a logbook entry, new W&B, and a new (5 hr. min) phase I.
 
You will need a logbook entry, new W&B, and a new (5 hr. min) phase I.

Excellent! After reading about the new Sensenich GA prop and it's performance numbers over in the other thread, I think I'm going to go for it. I'd really love to upgrade to a CS, but simply don't have the funds to do that.
 
So: Rvmills changed form one model Hartzell c/s to another model; no appreciable change in W&B. Someone will have to 'splain to me why any paperwork, other than a logbook entry, is required here, along with a return to Phase 1 for 5 hrs.

The Reno feds told me I need to document the same thing on my plane, and go back into Phase 1 for 5 hrs, then tore up the paperwork in front of me when I showed up to race. Huh?

The change from FP to CS I understand, but simply changing models of CS??

Help me Obi Wan Asberry - you're my only hope!:D

Carry on!
Mark

Changing from C/S to C/S does NOT require a new 8130-6.
The subject of this thread started about changing from F/P to C/S.
Changing any prop requires a new phase I and maybe a new W&B.
You have it correct.

Mark,

Remember that I changed the tail from RV-6 to RV-8 at the same time, which did require the Phase I test period, and associated paperwork. Did some good prop testing during that test period too. My point in posting was to share my experience with the FSDO with Brian...just wanted to keep the story simple (and never said CS to CS needed it). Shoulda said I did a prop and tail swap. My bad. :eek:

The requirement talked about hear can be found in paragraph (19) of the latest version of operating limitations.
Other requirements for when to submit new 8130-6 can be found in FAA Order 8130.2G. Basically any other time you need to submit a new 8130-6 will require a new inspection such as a recurrent or amended airworthiness.

Thanks Mel...makes good sense.

Cheers,
Bob
 
Pay me now or pay me later...

My new Hartzell should be here Monday! Hooray! Never thought that the girl would ever get the chance to swap from FP to CS but here we are.

Question for those that have gone thru the process before or have knowledge of the requirements....I have the modern OL's...

What do I have to do as far as the FSDO goes?

Write em a letter telling em I am swapping?

Put the plane back in Phase I for 5 hrs minimum?

Can I use the same test area as before?

Send the FSDO a revised Form 8130-6?

Logbook entry, new W&B?

What else???

Do I need to hear back from them before flying or ?

Thanks!

All great inputs above from some very smart folks. (hey, I know those guys!) I recently visited my local FSDO after chatting with Jesse about the same items for an engine swap. First and foremost are your operating limitations, read them carefully especially the part about modifications. Major mods are clearly defined. However comma, F1 Boss is right, changing propeller models within type should be a logbook entry only. Unless he reads from Part 43 Appendix A, then...

From Part 43: (3) Propeller major alterations. The following alterations of a propeller when not authorized in the propeller specifications issued by the FAA are propeller major alterations:
(i) Changes in blade design.
(ii) Changes in hub design.
(iii) Changes in the governor or control design.
(iv) Installation of a propeller governor or feathering system.
(v) Installation of propeller de-icing system.
(vi) Installation of parts not approved for the propeller.

I took Obi Wan's advice and contacted my local DAR first but ended up going "downtown" (Orlando that is). Since the sequester the FAA requires appointments and only sees visitors 3 days a week. The good news is once you are there the inspector is a captive audience for questions, requests, logbook review, etc. My inspector basically rewrote my limitations with a sample logbook entry with new V speeds and test area approval. Nearly painless...

V/R
Smokey

PS: Changing to C/S has some advantages (and disadvantages) It will takeoff and climb better, however comma...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLufkX38Tdk
 
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