What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Panel Options - RV-3B

David Paule

Well Known Member
Which variation would you choose and why? The purpose is day VFR, without aerobatics, one alternator, one battery. The RV-3B panel is the smallest of all the RVs and this is about all that I can stuff into it.

Option 1 - 7" Dynon HDX, iPad mini for nav redundancy and clarity. The HDX would have a backup battery. My concern with this option is navigating with the 7" HDX. How useful is it?

hEo9PIA.jpg


Option 2 - 10" Dynon HDX, Garmin G5 for redundancy. Both would have backup batteries. Here the main concern is that with no other Garmin devices, the G5 isn't a navigation device. It's basically a compass with a PFD. Still, that plus my phone, which I'd have to deploy, are enough to get me to the next airport.

UjffKfn.jpg


I'm not planning on multiple additional screens, nor on eliminating an HDX in favor of a second G5. I'm also not going to switch to an all Garmin or even a majority Garmin system, mostly because I already have the Dynon boxes other than the HDX. On the other hand, if you have an idea that'll fit the small panel, other than these schemes, I'd be interested in it.

The switch panel under the main panel is an add-on that's part of the avionics shelf, and it's recessed just a bit forward of the panel. I can't use that space for additional panel goodies. It's just for switches and pull controls like carb heat.

Thanks!

Dave
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't rely on an i-device at all. I've been using my iPhone in the -3 as a map/navigation device because the onboard GPS is very old with an un-updatable database and no graphics to speak of.

I've flown approximately 16 hours in the -3 over the last 5 days and my iPhone has gone into "hot" mode in any flight more than about an hour. The screen dims to a point where it's very difficult to read. Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that I've got an Otterbox case on the main body of the phone. The other issue is that Foreflight consumes a fair bit of power so I've got a charging cable plugged in at all times. The in/out of electrical juice heats things up, too.

I find it difficult to find a place where the screen is visible to me that puts the iPhone in the shade to give it a chance to cool off. I've started turning it off and holding it in front of a vent when I'm in the middle of nowhere so that it'll work as I approach my home airport within 1/2 mile of Class B airspace at the end of a flight. Not ideal.

After today's flight, I promised myself I'd look into a Garmin 660 or something that might be a little more sunlight readable and tolerant of cockpit heat.
 
Option 2. You will appreciate the larger screen and information. The 7" is just a bit small especially when you have the engine instruments on there. The map features and lettering especially is hard to read unless you zoom unrealistically. The G5 is a great choice for your backup and use your phone or mini if you have a dynon failure which will be very rare if ever. I would lose the clock, airspeed and inclinometer as they are redundant with both the G5 and Dynon. You're gonna really like the setup.

I'm doing pretty much the same with GRT equipment as my RV3A is very space limited behind the panel and I do not have the space you have and I already have an GRT EIS.
 
Should have mentioned that the clock is a fuel tank reminder rather than a timer. The minute hand points to the tank I need. No buzzer or beeps. My background is in an airplane where the fuel is always on "both" and this is to help me remember to switch the darn tanks. This was an idea from someone on VAF a few years ago.

And yes, knowing me, I think that I'd better stick the clock in the panel.

Dave
 
Hi, David

I would avoid the temptation to fill every square inch of your panel with gadgets....especially if you just want a nice VFR airplane. Simple & clean, in my humble opinion, fits to RV philosophy better.

A single Skyview or G3X centered on the panel is all you really need. I have an iPad Mini on my clipboard strapped to my knee for cross country flying. It communicates with my Skyview via WiFi and shows traffic & weather on both screens. You can select a "six pack" display of steam gauges on your EFIS if you insist on analog displays. When pulling more than 2g's it pops up a big g-meter on the Skyview screen for easy reference.

Enjoy your RV-3B. I wish I had one!!!
 
Last edited:
I'd put a G695 or G696 on the right side of the panel adjacent to the Dynon and that would be it other than comm gear and maybe an a/p. It is a simple day VFR aircraft. Airspeed, Altitude, engine instruments, and nav info... As you stated, you have your phone for backup nav.
 
Simple, Day VFR? I’d put the Dynon in the middle of the panel, and forget about the G5 as a backup. You can fly the airplane just fine with no instruments at all. I personally am not a fan of panel-mounted iPads, mostly because as soon as you customize the panel for one, they’ll change the iPad design, your old one will fail, and it doesn’t fit right - plus, the heat thing. I always fly with an iPad these days, but it sits on my leg - either a mini (in the jet or -3) or my 9.7” (in the other planes).

I am also a big believer in panel Visual symmetry, but that is art....

Those are opinions based on my experiences....your might vary.

Paul
 
Option 2.

Love my 10" HDX. iPads are very hard to see due to glare in my experience. Used to use one on my leg in my 4. Always tilting it and my head to read it.

I agree with Ironflight about centering the HDX and panel symmetry.
 
Andy Hill sent a photo of his panel (we'd had a long correspondence while he was building his RV-3B):

zqN7Ehs.jpg


He also sent some comments:

"Keep the “heads up” panel for stuff you need a lot, and the “head down” for “not very often”. Bear in mind the Dynon thing will almost certainly control the VHF and Xpdr for you, so the heads down is a backup. The heads down is good being out of sunlight for LCD etc

"You don’t want an iPad on its side for a map, because it just shows you where you aren’t going �� It needs to be long side up/down, with PP at the bottom so you see where you are going, track up (old RAF trick)

"....redundancy in a VFR RV-3 is fairly academic. Look out of window with paper map. The Samsung is Velcro mounted so it your phone at the destination..."

Andy mentioned that I should avoid having switches in the subpanel, I'll bash my legs on them.

Dave (channeling Andy here)
 
Last edited:
VFR panel

https://link.shutterfly.com/rCxVBby5F7

David

I don?t know how to embed a photo but follow the link to see my strictly vfr RV4 panel that does everything I need. The iPad mini is in a Guardian flushmount, which I had to modify with a Dremel to get the audio plug to fit, and I love the setup.

This photo is older, I now have a transponder mounted under the panel which feeds ADSB In data to the iPad and has the Stratus ADHRS if I really want to use the iPad as a backup to the EFIS. I have not had problems with overheating, I put a towel over the panel if I will be parked in the sun, and it?s possible to mount a small computer cooling fan onto the back of the Guardian mount if you want extra cooling.

I wired the iPad audio into the intercom so it warns me about traffic, and all of the warnings Foreflight provides. This is an ancient EFIS but fulfills all of my needs.
 
The 3 panel is small but it is possible to fit in quite a lot of unnecessary stuff, here my example of just that with a 10" screen. Probably regret it when it comes to weigh in time but I do like to look at stuff and gadgetry.

Build it how you want it Dave but I do like Andy Hill's panel as clean and practical.

Regards,
Russell
IMG-4557.jpg
[/url][/IMG]
 
Having said you are going for a VFR panel, you really don't need a lot on the panel unless you like gadgets. Stick with the basics. Its amazing what you can get in a small package these days.
I personally do not like consoles between my legs, sub panels and vents, etc sticking below the panel. In an accident, they are things that can cut you and entrap you.
For me, I mounted an EFIS that included an internal GPS, Auotpilot, moving map and showed all the engine parameters. There are more than one that include all these, but I prefer GRT.
I also mounted a TXP, Comm and EIS system on the panel and there was still room for switches and lights.
iPads and iPhones are great back ups and emergency devices that can get you home, but to me they are often hard to read and failure prone in the heat. Plus, you have to keep them charged so you need a USB connection for that if you take long flights.
In the end, its your plane so install what fits your personal mission.
 
Simple, Day VFR? I?d put the Dynon in the middle of the panel, and forget about the G5 as a backup. You can fly the airplane just fine with no instruments at all. I personally am not a fan of panel-mounted iPads, mostly because as soon as you customize the panel for one, they?ll change the iPad design, your old one will fail, and it doesn?t fit right - plus, the heat thing. I always fly with an iPad these days, but it sits on my leg - either a mini (in the jet or -3) or my 9.7? (in the other planes).

I am also a big believer in panel Visual symmetry, but that is art....
Everything Paul said, for the same reasons, IMO.

I would also ditch the panel-mounted radio, and remote-mount something that you control through the Skyview.
 
Esthetics with functionality

Center the 10 inch HDX on the panel and get rid of everything else. (Except the radio and I think you'd be better off with the Dynon SV-Panel Com) That will leave plenty of room on the main panel for toggle switches, so you won't need to extend the panel lower for those switches. Also be careful about toggle switches at the bottom of the panel that can get moved or broken when getting in or out.

This is a basic VFR panel and doesn't need multiple backups. You'll be amazed at how much information can be displayed on a 10 inch HDX.
 
I would pick #1 - I prefer my backup steam instruments be near the top of the panel so that I can glance at them, and back to the windscreen, if the main panel fails. For me (and I only speak for me) Having the ASI down on the lower left far away from the view out is not optimal.


If possible I would place the T&B under the ASI - it may just be a personal preference but I'd rather look up and down for those two rather than side to side.

I agree with others - iPad elsewhere ... off the panel
 
I would put the dynon as high as you can get and right in front of you, that is what you'll be looking at 90% of the time.I had no problems with my 7" screen but now with the moving maps and remote controls the 10" is probably the way to go.
 
Everyone, thanks very much for your comments. I've summarized them in italics with my thoughts following.


The iPad over heats and isn?t bright enough anyway.

I think those issues are more or less under control with a shade and past experience. I can add a fan if necessary.


Dump the clock, ASI, ball and G5.

The ASI is there for flying in the pattern. I gave that a lot of thought and decided that I wanted it. The clock?s minute hand points to the tank I need to be on, a good reminder since my experience to date is with the fuel firmly set to ?both.? The ball is a preference item since the Dynon one is relatively small. I did decide to go with Option 1, though, eliminating the G5. The reason is that it really isn?t a navigation device without additional hardware. As someone pointed out, I don?t need it to just fly the plane.


Too darn much stuff. The iPad should be on my thigh.

And perhaps it?ll migrate there eventually. As for the stuff, it is what it is. Not trying to pack the panel, really, I?d like to keep it simple.


Use a Garmin portable map device instead of the iPad.

Not gonna happen. The iPad receives the ADS-B in which the Garmin won't (I'm not using Dynon's ADS-B in) and the iPad does other things if necessary.


Bob - thanks for the comment about the 7? HDX.

I really like JAB?s RV-4 panel, thanks for linking to that photo.


The iPad should be vertical.

I like to navigate with north up and the map or screen?s long axis more or less aligned with the direction of flight. Been doing that for decades. The iPad will be able to rotate to a vertical position when desired, it won?t be fixed to the horizontal. A benefit of not using one of the commercial mounts. Also, I can swap out iPads if desired, for a different model, as long as it fits.


Dump the panel-mounted com radio. Use Dynon?s.

Dynon?s is a heavy choice. The one I chose, Trig?s, is lighter, and that?s why I chose it.


You forgot the whiskey compass, dummy!

Out here, most of the time, I can probably find my way around without one. We have a lot of roads oriented north/south or east/west. And that?s only if the GPS system packs it in. If that?s active, one of the screens ought to get me to an airport. If I?m out rambling somewhere else and GPS goes away, the map in the iPad plus what I can see ought to be good enough. It?s called dead reckoning. That said, yeah, I?ve thought about a compass more than once.


The slip indicator ought to be under the ASI.

You?re right - done.


The EFIS should be centered.

With a bigger panel, sure. For this one, this is where things fit.

Dave
 
Back
Top