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  #11  
Old 06-27-2020, 06:07 AM
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DanH DanH is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronschreck View Post
Here's a great video from my friend Gordon Penner. Lot's of great tips!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJaqWYYeRw
That is a great video.

Sounds like Jim is attempting the Hoover Roll, as labeled by Mr. Penner. Bob Hoover was my hero. When he passed on, I got thinking it would be fun to do a short video tribute. I think he would have been amused.

So anyway, Jim, watch the stick hand starting at 20 seconds. As previously noted, the key is no pitch pressure during the roll. See how I open my hand to ensure I apply roll pressure only? You don't really need to open your hand, but I was concentrating in order to do two things at once.

https://vimeo.com/189574781
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  #12  
Old 06-27-2020, 06:31 AM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Location: Yorkshire, England
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Do what he says..... !

Minus the Bourbon

Dan - please get a haircut

RV aeros can be quite a lot different to aeros in other aeroplanes - they are not competition machines, although some do compete. As Vans has said a time or two, they do greeeeat Sunday afternoon aerobatics that please the occupants !

Most guys I do aeros with do everything too fast and too harsh. Watch Dan and it shows how a smooth, patient and slow approach rewards with a pleasing result.

I can do a looping and rolling set in under 3g - wouldn't look good from outside, but I am sat inside. Likewise, if I have to do a bit for a friend, over his house, then I need to stay on station and pay attention and it gets a bit more g loading.

My 2 cents for the roll is along the lines described by Eric Muller. Progressively increase the aileron input as you apply it - slow to start, then increase to full deflection but finish more crisply when energy is lower. It "puntuates" the manoeuvre. In an RV, if you put aileron in quickly, you just get aileron bump as it basically tells you to stop being rough !
Eric talks about punctuation a lot, it defines the start and finish of a lot of figures and makes them better to do, easier to fly and better looking.

Find someone who knows RV aeros and who can coach and learn that way.
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  #13  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:41 AM
sandifer sandifer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post
RV aeros can be quite a lot different to aeros in other aeroplanes - they are not competition machines, although some do compete. As Vans has said a time or two, they do greeeeat Sunday afternoon aerobatics that please the occupants!
Why do so many RVers still feel compelled to say they are not "competition" machines? There has never been, nor does there seem to be a new trend of folks confusing them with a +/-10G Extra 330SC. Pitts' and Decathlons were not designed for "competition" either, but nobody says to pilots of these aircraft that they're not competition machines, although some do compete.

IMO RV acro is really NOT very special or different, at least once you're past the point of being a total rank beginner who's not yet obtained good training and obtained some basic familiarity with RVs.
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  #14  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:43 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Default Great video!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
...Sounds like Jim is attempting the Hoover Roll, as labeled by Mr. Penner. Bob Hoover was my hero. When he passed on, I got thinking it would be fun to do a short video tribute. I think he would have been amused. ...
https://vimeo.com/189574781
That was the perfect tribute to Bob Hoover. I shook his hand once at Oshkosh I'm sure I've been a much better pilot ever since!
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  #15  
Old 06-27-2020, 09:50 AM
JDeanda JDeanda is offline
 
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Default Get An Instructor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronschreck View Post
Here's a great video from my friend Gordon Penner. Lot's of great tips!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJaqWYYeRw
For the love of God, get with an aerobatic flight instructor and stop experimenting with aerobatics on your own. If you?re dishing out of a simple aileron roll and don?t know why, you are well below the level of competence needed to troubleshoot this on your own. Please, please don?t try to troubleshoot aerobatic problems over the internet. You need to speak with the instructor and then fly with that person.
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  #16  
Old 06-27-2020, 10:57 AM
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mike newall mike newall is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandifer View Post
Why do so many RVers still feel compelled to say they are not "competition" machines? There has never been, nor does there seem to be a new trend of folks confusing them with a +/-10G Extra 330SC. Pitts' and Decathlons were not designed for "competition" either, but nobody says to pilots of these aircraft that they're not competition machines, although some do compete.

IMO RV acro is really NOT very special or different, at least once you're past the point of being a total rank beginner who's not yet obtained good training and obtained some basic familiarity with RVs.


Having been acquainted with an International Aerobatic Judge in the USA for many years before he passed, it was interesting to hear his opinion. He saw many aeroplanes used for both displays and competitions. Some suited one discipline, some suited the other.

My statement referred to people who have built and flown RV's, read the many articles from the designers and taken it on board.

You can compete in an RV.

It was not designed as such !


A Pitts, a Decathlon, an Extra, or a Giles, or a One Design, or an MX are designed primarily for aerobatics - and competition.

The ACA aeroplanes are the quintessential compromise crossover aeroplanes and they should be applauded. A day to day hack, a cross country cruiser, a backwoods skirmisher, yet a competent competitor when needed in the higher powered versions.

RV's are best described as Hedley Lamarr said in Blazing Saddles....

Now go do that voodoo that you do so weeeeellllll !!!


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  #17  
Old 06-27-2020, 11:16 AM
sandifer sandifer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike newall View Post
A Pitts, a Decathlon, an Extra, or a Giles, or a One Design, or an MX are designed primarily for aerobatics - and competition.
Curtis Pitts designed the S-1 in the mid 40's because he just wanted an airplane that handled and rolled better than the Wacos of the day. Competition acro didn't exist back then. The Decathlon is a direct descendent of the Champ, and RVs have more aerobatic capability than the Decathlon. About the only airplane specifically designed for competition acro is the One Design, but the "one design" competition concept failed for a number of reasons. RVs ARE designed to do aerobatics.

The competition structure allows a wide variety of aircraft to do well. I've seen Clipped Cubs, Swick T's, Sonex, RVs, Stearmans, Acro Sports, P-51, T-28, CJ-6, Rans S-9, Citabrias, Chipmunks, Jungmanns, Great Lakes', EAA Bipes, and others I'm sure I'm fogetting, all compete and do quite well. None were "designed" for competition acro and nobody needs to keep reminding these pilots that they are not designed to win a World Aerobatic Championship. RVs are NOT special here, they are just another type that fits in just fine.

Last edited by sandifer : 06-27-2020 at 11:20 AM.
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:37 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Default Pitts

Bob Herendeen competed in 1966 World Aerobatic Contest in Moscow in Pitts S1C(flat wing two aileron). Charlie Hilliard became Mens World Champion in 1972 and Mary Gaffney became Womens
World Champion. US team won first place. All in Pitts's.
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:40 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Default Acro

Good to remember that the fatal inflight breakup of RV7 in Atlantic City area was the result of a pilot attempting to learn acro by "reading the book".
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2020, 12:48 PM
swjohnsey swjohnsey is offline
 
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Originally Posted by jrs14855 View Post
Good to remember that the fatal inflight breakup of RV7 in Atlantic City area was the result of a pilot attempting to learn acro by "reading the book".
Only youtube for me!
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