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Old 11-23-2019, 01:40 PM
1flyingyogi 1flyingyogi is offline
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 397

Great write-up, Rob. I really liked the analogy of the crisp apple - right on!

My experience of owning the RV4 and Laser 200 are very similar to yours. The only thing I would add as far as differences b/t an RV and an Extra/ Laser/ other purpose built acro mounts is that the Laser is much more neutral handling. The RV is great upright and level, but when you put it on it's side, even with full top rudder, it drops like a rock. And inverted requires the nose way up high to maintain altitude. And of course the slow roll rate with huge stick forces at full deflection.

I always dreamed of a slightly modified -4 that is more suitable for acro. Semi-symmetrical wings with full length ailerons and spades/ no flaps, a taller fuselage side area (fast back), bigger, more triangular-shaped rudder. These small changes would make a really fun -4 that will still retain a lot of the qualities that make it such a great all-around airplane! I'm just dreaming out loud...
Brian RV4
0-320 ~ 170hp, AFP fuel injection, EFII Electronic Ignition, Raven inverted oil, Sterba wood prop, 970lbs empty

Dues Happily Paid
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:57 AM
springer springer is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: AZ/MN
Posts: 394

Originally Posted by rph142 View Post
Paul, I sold my -3 to Dick Stone out of Colorado. Fortunately he gave me first right of refusal when he sells it someday. Congrats on your new book btw!!
Wait a minute Rob. I bought my -8 from Dick and your -3 is next on my list!:-)
RV-4 '88-'09 Built & Sold
RV-8 Purchased
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Old 11-24-2019, 09:43 AM
Toobuilder's Avatar
Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,966

A buddy of mine had access to an Extra 300 as a "work airplane" and he often flew it as a proficiency trainer for his employer. He also often borrowed my -8 on weekend trips. He had several opportunities to fly the two side by side on ferry/repositioning flights and was shocked to discover the 200 HP -8 would flat out and run away from the 300 HP Extra in cruise. That unbreakable fat wing on the Extra costs a LOT of speed.
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C - SOLD
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Old 11-25-2019, 05:46 AM
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RV8Squaz RV8Squaz is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Senoia, Georgia
Posts: 943
Default A slightly different viewpoint.

Hey Rob, thank you for posting this. As someone getting ready to embark on the purchase of an Extra, I really appreciate your post.

I?ve never flown an RV-3 or an Extra 300. My views come from the 1700+ hours in my RV-8 and the 5 or 6 hours I?ve had in the Extra 330LX. The 300L is the low wing version of the 300 and the 330LX is an improved version of the 300L. I agree that the forward view in the mid-wing 300 is awful (I sat in one for about 15 minutes making acro noises). The 300L resolves most of that with the low wing. The view out of the immense bubble canopy is amazing. In either case the 400 deg/s roll rate and the feather light control forces, makes seeing below a non-event. You can see downward better from the back seat of an Extra than the front seat of the RV-8.

They do serve two completely different missions in my opinion. The RVs are fantastic ?Jack of all trades? airplanes. The Extra has two purposes, competition aerobatics and air shows. Sure you can fly the Extra on a cross-country or take it to a pancake breakfast, but that?s not why you fly an Extra. You do a cross-country because you have to, to get from contest to contest or air show to air show. Truly, I wish I could continue to use my RV in competition. But as Rob said, the Extra is virtually unbreakable. For the stage I?m at in competition aerobatics, unbreakable is an important feature. Oddly enough, Extra does make a cross-country version, the 300LT. It has some improved creature comforts, avionics, and a faster semi-symmetrical airfoil.

While the Extra is a heavier airplane, the 300 hp of the 300 or the 315 hp of the 300LX is unmistakable. The acceleration is not quite after-burner like, but more significant than my 200 hp, RV-8. The RV-8 seems to get airborne sooner, perhaps due to the airfoil and flaps. I once flew alongside an Extra 200 and I could out climb and out run him, but he had the same engine I do. The Extra 300 has a 300 hp AEIO-540 while the Extra 330 has a 315 hp AEIO-580. Although the Extra 300 is not as fast as you would think due to the big, thick airfoil wing, I seriously doubt I would be able to out climb it. Yes, you do burn 25-30 gph on a typical acro sortie. You could probably get it down to 14-16 gph in cruise just like any other 300 hp engined aircraft. But that's the price you have to pay to be able to hurl it about the sky!

The Extra is the closest thing I?ve flown to a tactical aircraft outside of the military. It?s got that hard seat-stiff ride, brisk acceleration, incredible handling and control forces, and you fly the tickle just like the T-38.

A 1/4 share of the Extra 300 pictured in the original post is currently listed for sale on the various sites. If it were located in Atlanta, I would be all over it! Rob, are you the one selling the share?

Jerry Esquenazi
RV-8 N84JE
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:55 AM
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rph142 rph142 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Walnut Creek CA
Posts: 520

A 1/4 share of the Extra 300 pictured in the original post is currently listed for sale on the various sites. If it were located in Atlanta, I would be all over it! Rob, are you the one selling the share?
The original owner is selling his 1/4 share. I just bought into it this summer and will need at least a few years to scratch the itch. Youre right about the view straight down being better than the RV series. You sit well behind the trailing edge in the Extra.
Rob Holmes
RV-3B N59LG - Built, Flown, Sold!
Extra 300 N111XW - Partner, Flown, Sold!
RV-7 NxxxLG
The minimum number of planes one should own is one. The correct number is n+1, where n is the number of planes currently owned. This equation may also be re-written as s-1, where s is the number of planes owned that would result in separation from your partner.

- Veluminati
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:54 AM
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KleensRV6 KleensRV6 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 3rd Rock fm the Sun
Posts: 119

Hey Rob,
Always hate to hear of someone having to sell their RV. However, in your case you have managed to triple your fun. Stay out in front of that sled when you are on the down hill, and enjoy the itch. Give your dad my best!
Jailbird/CW Kleen
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:49 PM
sandifer sandifer is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 667

That's cool to hear Rob. Now you and Mark get your butts to a contest in that thing!
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:19 PM
Pittsartist Pittsartist is offline
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 167

I've got a friend who built a One Design. It's 180hp with a VP prop and fairly light, he knows how to get the best from it to.

Another friend has a 200hp RV-7 again with a VP prop.

The RV is Faster (flat out) Slower (stall speed) and climbs better at pretty much any speed. G for G it also seems to turn better (ie smaller turn radius for a given level of G)

Meanwhile, my 160hp Fixed pitch RV-6 is also faster and slower as per the above. We have yet to try a climb rate match off.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that one aeroplane is better than the other - "horses for courses" and all that. But I do have to say I'm really impressed that the RV's can hold their own with such a high performance light weight single seater.
NOTHING is Foolproof .... To a sufficiently Talented Fool
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Old 11-25-2019, 05:04 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,058
Default Turn Radius

Originally Posted by Pittsartist View Post
G for G it also seems to turn better (ie smaller turn radius for a given level of G)
Turn radius per G in level flight is purely dependent on speed and nothing else.

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Old 11-25-2019, 05:18 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 2,800
Default Extra

For some amazing video search Svetlana Kapanina. Seven times women's World Aerobatic Champion.
Video of her flying the Extra 300, Sukhoi SU26 and Su29.
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