What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Why are RV-14’s $230k when a 7 or 9 is $100k

Lemos

Active Member
I have looked at 7, 9, 10, and 14 RVs. It seems a great 7 or 9 is $100,000. A great low total time, low engine time, great panel equipped 10 is $250,000 and a great 14 is $200,000. I’d like a 10 or 14 because I’m wide shall we say, wide.

To get a 10 or 14, I’d take the money from my retirement investments. I understand the price of a 10, but a 14, I don’t. Why are they so expensive when so similar to a 7 or 9? Have they always been this expensive or is this a surge due to COVID and I should hold out for a dip?
 
it cost more to build a 14, most have a full and nice panel with likely a new engine which might not be the case for a 7 or 9.

RV14 is more that meets the eye.
 
The -14 structure is more like a 2-place 10 than it is a wide -7/-9.
 
Last edited:
If you do the quickbuild kit you easily get to $200k. Also everything is listed with the pre-tax price but don't forget the builders need to pay sales tax and use tax.

QB Kit $50k
Engine $45k
EFII $10k
Prop $15k
Avionics $40k
Brakes/Wheels $10k
Paint $20k

That's $190k.
 
Cost

As others have mentioned - there is more than meets the eye. While I have no doubt you could technically get a -14 in the air for $90k-100k, it would most certainly require a second hand engine, limited avionics, and paint (both of which installation would not be able to be outsourced to stay within the $100k range).

IMO, $140-160 - is a reasonable cost to build a -14.

Couple that with the limited market size, and it quickly becomes a hot commodity.
 
Basic breakdown of the 170+ knot cross country new kid on the block ...

Engine $48
Avionics $45
Paint $20
Kit $50
Interior $7
Prop $8

... and add some short supply and high demand ... boom! $225

Having headroom plus being able to stretch out and fly for hours NOT squished up to the sweaty guy next to you ... PRICELESS :D
 
Last edited:
Quibble with the numbers

If you do the quickbuild kit you easily get to $200k. Also everything is listed with the pre-tax price but don't forget the builders need to pay sales tax and use tax.

QB Kit $50k
Engine $45k
EFII $10k
Prop $15k
Avionics $40k
Brakes/Wheels $10k
Paint $20k

That's $190k.

I built a -14 for way under $190. Without too many details instead of engine 45 and prop 15 I bought the engine/prop through Vans for about 40 total. I have SDSEFI instead of EFII for closer to 5000 than 10,000 (I suspect EFII is priced competitively). I really paid closer to 2500 for SDS because I sold off the fuel and ignition from my new IO-390. Brakes and wheels are included in the kit price. So my guess would be between 120,000 and 150,000 build for most builders. I only know the build cost of my particular choices.

Additionally, I doubt they are actually selling for $230. I do believe they are asking $230. I would love to think that was an actual selling price.
Respectfully,
Marvin
 
Last edited:
Additionally, I doubt they are actually selling for $230. I do believe they are asking $230. I would love to think that was an actual selling price.

I know of 3 that were sold north of $220 ... two of them were sold within 1 day of posting the other took about a week ...

Once more are out there it will stabilize ... seller's market on 14's right now :eek:
 
Last edited:
Good to know

I know of 3 that were sold north of $220 ... two of them were sold within 1 day of posting the other took about a week ...

Once more are out there it will stabilize ... seller's market on 14's right now :eek:

Actual selling prices are always hard to know. Although mine is not for sell it is always good to think it is worth that much. In my case that would be a surprising profit. Thanks for the feedback
 
Actual selling prices are always hard to know. Although mine is not for sell it is always good to think it is worth that much. In my case that would be a surprising profit. Thanks for the feedback

When new 172's are over $500k it's easy to see the appeal for non-builders ...
 
If you do the quickbuild kit you easily get to $200k. Also everything is listed with the pre-tax price but don't forget the builders need to pay sales tax and use tax.

QB Kit $50k
Engine $45k
EFII $10k
Prop $15k
Avionics $40k
Brakes/Wheels $10k
Paint $20k

That's $190k.
Shipping and do-dads $10K , now it is $200. Where is the leather interior? And several of these are on the low side by a few thousand. All new stuff in a 7 will push $150k.

A really nice used, refurbished Cirus is $400? But the annual $ hahahahaha
 
Last edited:
get what you pay for

I agree with the all the 'what for' comments. Something not mentioned about the 14, it is stressed for aerobatics - even if you don't do aerobatics that is a statement on the plane's heftier structural integrity.

You find out why the plane costs what it does after you invest in all the things you want do put into it, the quick build additional cost path, the tools to make it happen, the multitude of visits to online and big box stores to get what is needed, the time and effort it takes to be resourceful in coming up with ways to save a little here and there, degree of all the panel goodies you can go with or not, . . . ad infinitum

If you keep a pretty good track of all of the money spent and factor in something for all of the nickels and dimes that slip through and add it up -
the cost tallies reported are all in the ballpark.
 
If you do the quickbuild kit you easily get to $200k. Also everything is listed with the pre-tax price but don't forget the builders need to pay sales tax and use tax.

QB Kit $50k
Engine $45k
EFII $10k
Prop $15k
Avionics $40k
Brakes/Wheels $10k
Paint $20k

That's $190k.


Do the kits not come with brakes and wheels!?
 
Do the kits not come with brakes and wheels!?

They do, and the engine comes with an ignition and fuel delivery system, so you don't need EFII. And you can pick nits with a few of the other numbers too. But, the total is directionally reasonable. Maybe you pull it off for $150K by bargain shopping and finding a less expensive paint shop. But it's still gonna be a spendy undertaking.

Don't forget the cost of an interior. $500 - infinity. ;-)
 
...fly for hours NOT squished up to the sweaty guy next to you ... PRICELESS :D

The cabin width difference is 3 inches. And Bill's usual passenger is neither large nor particularly sweaty, and even if she was, no one would mind, and...

Oops. I better shut up now ;)
 
If anyone truly wants to sell their RV-14A, or 14 for $200k or under let me know. I’m withdrawing the money from investments today and will be ready to purchase immediately. No pre-buy, just a quick transaction.
 
Shipping and do-dads $10K , now it is $200. Where is the leather interior? And several of these are on the low side by a few thousand. All new stuff in a 7 will push $150k.

A really nice used, refurbished Cirus is $400? But the annual $ hahahahaha

Add $60-80K for full build assist and you are well into the high 200’s for a -14 and north of $300K for a -10.

I’ve never understood why the “market” doesn’t account for the labor required to build these planes.

That being said, some of the top tier airplanes never make it to market. They are sold privately and are not advertised. I know what I’ve been offered for our RV-7A and it’s well above what the “market” pricing would indicate.
 
Back to the original post, you'll pay a lot more than $100K for a really nice 7/7A.

There was a 9A listed here a few days ago for $150K. I have top notch Garmin panel and an a 1 year old IO-375 in my 7A, and if I was selling I'd probably ask $150K.
 
Back to the original post, you'll pay a lot more than $100K for a really nice 7/7A.

There was a 9A listed here a few days ago for $150K. I have top notch Garmin panel and an a 1 year old IO-375 in my 7A, and if I was selling I'd probably ask $150K.

Like others have mentioned, asking price is not always the price that one may get. I also saw a RV7 here for $176k and change. It will be interesting if those two planes will get sold for the asking price.
 
Sounds like a $150K incentive to lose some weight. Better for your wallet in many ways... Flying, grocery bill, long-term health-care...
 
Sounds like a $150K incentive to lose some weight. Better for your wallet in many ways... Flying, grocery bill, long-term health-care...

So you're saying if the op would just loose weight $50k will get him the same plane as $200k? :rolleyes:
 
Really simple

there are some who buy Lexus, there are some who buy Toyotas. Both are reliable, but the Lexus gets you prettier women; the Toyota gets you more money in the bank. Pick your poison.
 
When Mazda first rolled out the Miata, I remember them selling for twice the $12,500 Mazda-advertised price, so the small supply obviously contributes.

But it may be that something else is changing, too. The "cost to build" for a large part of the -10 and -14 fleet (compared with older models) now appears to include $60-$80K for a build shop, per KatanaPilot's post.

Add to that the $13-$14K higher price for the quick-build kits, and this is very "Merry Christmas" news for all of us slow-builders. Our airplanes can't possibly turn out to be worth $70-$90K less because we constructed them ourselves. I can't wait to explain all of this to my darling (and totally supportive) wife!
 
So you're saying if the op would just loose weight $50k will get him the same plane as $200k? :rolleyes:

Sounds like it if you aren't building one. If you look at a nice -7 with all the same equipment and finish quality as a -14, and an IO-360 instead of the bigger engine, all you are getting for that extra 50K is space, and maybe a little extra useful load. Performance is the same. Even my old -6 gets the same top speed. The -14 is kitted different so I think if you are building that's where a lot of the extra value comes from.
 
The kits and engines to build anything cost a lot more than they did 10-20 years ago. So an older RV was built for a lot less money. 14s tend to be built with full avionics and 40k engines with c/s props. My 8 that I’m building slow will have 45 in kit, 40k in engine, 35k in avionics, 10k in prop, 8k in upgrades. And 2000+ hours of time to construct. That’s 130k plus my labor. It will be new and it will be mine. But it isn’t cheap. Avionics might cost less but it seems to add up to that pretty quick. Just wiring is 500 in wire and terminations. I’ve got about 150k in my 14 after recent painting and it is better than new at 150 proven flying hours. There should be some sig value in my labor to bring it to that point.
 
Sounds like it if you aren't building one. If you look at a nice -7 with all the same equipment and finish quality as a -14, and an IO-360 instead of the bigger engine, all you are getting for that extra 50K is space, and maybe a little extra useful load. Performance is the same. Even my old -6 gets the same top speed. The -14 is kitted different so I think if you are building that's where a lot of the extra value comes from.

Another factor is the wifey .. put them in a 14 after a 7 and you're going to have a hard time getting them to look back at that 7 :p
 
That first reply was spot on. Supply vs demand. The -14 will probably always command more money than a 7/9 will, because most -14's will come with IO-390's and newer equipment. But there is just a lot of demand for them due to their bigger size and many other aspects of the airplane. But, when people start trying to sell them for over $200k, unless they just threw piles of money at the project when it was built, they're asking well over what a nice RV-14 can be built for, if you're willing to build it. When the RV-10's first came out, people that built them realized how demanded they were, and many builders quickly sold their completed plane. The demand caused the price to be so much higher than their build price that they couldn't turn it down, and that cash easily paid for another complete kit plus tens of thousands of extra dollars. And then they could build it again, tweaking things that they wish they would have done the first time. I'm sure some of the -14 builders will do the same. They'll see the dollar signs, sell off their couple of years of hobby, and then either pocket it or build again.

What's the best way out of the high prices? Take part as an actual experimental aviation BUILDER and build it, from a standard kit. You'll gain far more knowledge about the plane than you'll ever get by being a buyer. You'll get the repairman certificate, and you won't be scared to tackle every maintenance task or service bulletin that comes out. To me, that's how you really get the most benefit for the lowest cost.
 
$90K yea, but . . .

IMHO from personal experience, it is possible to complete a 14 for under $180-190K. A $200K advertised sales price for a recently completed 14 does reflect the added premium for a completed airplane. And $200K is very likely something over what was put into it and includes some of the builder's time (reflection of the supply/demand factor) and I'll bet a fairly long list of cost items not tracked. Therefore, a $200K sales price probably reflects a total tally of most cost items of over $185K.

I'll guess that you could build one for the projected cost that Van's posts for a 14 complete cost (from their web site promotional 14 text> a completed, flying RV-14 airplane can be finished for around $90,000.

From my own experience and that of two other 14's I know a little first hand knowledge about, getting one complete for around $90K would take some magical involvement from some unworldly sources. And, a lot of scouring for a panel full of fairly good used analog instrument gauges/radios/electrical components, no paint, home made interior furnishings, and the like. For $150-160'ish? - maybe'ish.
 
From my own experience and that of two other 14's I know a little first hand knowledge about, getting one complete for around $90K would take some magical involvement from some unworldly sources. And, a lot of scouring for a panel full of fairly good used analog instrument gauges/radios/electrical components, no paint, home made interior furnishings, and the like. For $150-160'ish? - maybe'ish.

Put a Cub panel in it, paint it yourself, no interior other than seatcovers, and you could bring one home at $125K.. The kits (including FWF), engine, prop, governor, come in just under $100k. You can do the rest of it for $25K, as long as you're selective.

Of course, homebuilding has moved on from the time of bare bones, day-VFR airplanes. I think a lot of that is peer pressure, and I'm sure Stein is grateful for it. ;-)
 
It boils down to the I Wannas Itch

The I Wanna Itch is impossible to ignore for any red-blooded E-AB airplane builder, EAA or VAF ball cap owner, and tool junkie.

And the I Wanna Itch can only be scratched by getting another tool and other neat stuff to stick on the airplane that makes other E-AB'ers green with envy - and it feels good. It adds up in big big chunks and little bits.

So that makes it impossible to keep it lower than $175K.

This thread has been fun, plus it's been like going to confession.
 
Another factor is the wifey .. put them in a 14 after a 7 and you're going to have a hard time getting them to look back at that 7 :p

Not all. My wife sat in the factory -14 and said “I like ours better, its paid for!” Cant argue with that!
 
I just have to laugh at some of the figures that people say you can build RVs for...often ridiculously low numbers that don’t reflect reality.

How do they arrive at these bargain basement numbers. Well, they just leave out a lot of the real outlays.

Often they have no realistic budget for an interior. And no budget for the painting (look, if it ain’t painted it ain’t finished). They have no budget whatsoever for countless and endless almost daily hardware purchases eg epoxy resins, fibreglass cloth, sandpaper, safety glasses, masks, solvents, brushes, etc etc. They have no budget for building tools which will be many thousands of dollars. They have no budget for the specialised tools required to do the wiring. And finally they have no budget for the maintenance tools ultimately required to maintain the aircraft (you are going to time your magnetos and check your compression aren’t you?). And don’t give me the cr@p about it doesn’t count as part of the cost of building if it isn’t fitted to the plane. The cost of tools and sundry items is as much a cost of building as the avionics. If you buy the plane already built you don’t need the tools.

Then there’s the cost of builder’s insurance as you build. It’s not compulsory but if you have over a $100k sitting in your garage and it’s not covered by your home insurance you run a huge risk by not having it. Then there’s taxes, kit transport costs, then the cost of transporting the aircraft to an airport, then the cost of hangarage while you complete the final assembly. Then there’s all the purchases of third party items that you ultimately realise along the way that you just cannot do without....the anti splat nose job, the gust lock, the fabric fuselage cover, etc etc....it’s truly endless. Then there’s the upgrade items to Vans kits....upgrade the alternator, upgrade the oil cooler, upgrade the engine mounts, upgrade the air vents.

In the end the only people who really know what it costs to build an RV are those that have meticulously and truthfully totalled up every single dollar that they have spend on the aircraft. The rest are just guessing or living in wishful thinking land.

When I was building my RV7 I had a very good friend who was building a virtually identically equipped RV7 at the same time. I kept meticulous documentation on every single dollar I spent and he said he didn’t want to know what it was costing him (because it made him nervous and also so he didn't have to lie to his wife ha ha ha). When I was $140k into my project I asked him how much he thought he had spent on his (virtually identical progress) and he said he thought about $90k. That’s how far out builders can be when they really don’t want to know the hard truth.
 
Last edited:
Captain AvGas - So true - plus we all forget how much time is worth; lost time with kids/family; divorce, deaths and other intangibles
 
..........SNIP.........That’s how far out builders can be when they really don’t want to know the hard truth.

That’s so very true and I think it’s a common delusion for aircraft ownership in general.

This is my fourth year of building. I have saved most receipts but not all. Last December I totaled all the receipts and itemized them. I had spent over 30% more than I estimated. Tools and misc parts was a huge portion of the underestimating.

Back in my Alaska days when I owned and operated a C-180 I kept every receipt for anything related to operating that ac. My buddies always quoted operating figures far below my numbers....

IMHO there is nothing wrong with not knowing the true cost but at least be aware you don’t know.
 
Garage

I spent 10 grand (actually more) renovating my garage into an airplane shop. The financial math on the garage reno was done with option B where many of the little things like the extra switch cover didn't get added in.

Does that count as part of the airplane cost? I use the garage turned workshop for much more than the airplane. I fix the cars, and the every day little nic-nacks that need repaired in the house. I'll say yes, because the garage reno mostly came out of the airplane fund.

At the end of the day, it's a hobby. I have a nice workshop where I enjoy going to work on the plane that I enjoy building. The garage reno probably delayed the build by a year. However it would have taken even longer with a cold, dark miserable workshop that I would never want to use. At the end of the day, it's about enjoying the hobby and cash flow. I can only spend so much money per month, that's the budget my wife and I agreed to. I'm spending that money in ways that makes the hobby the most enjoyable.

As for the final cost? I don't know, there's a rough guess, but the true number doesn't matter to me. I'm also going to spend a bunch of money on gas, oil, maintenance, insurance, hangar, etc. It's all part of the hobby.
 
This is my fourth year of building. I have saved most receipts but not all. Last December I totaled all the receipts and itemized them. I had spent over 30% more than I estimated.

I would say I that’s pretty spot on, at least in my case. While I didn’t save every receipt, I did open a specific bank account just for the build. Every other penny spent came from that account. Just the other day I tallied all of the debits since opening the account and my expenditures were roughly 35% more than my “conservative” pre build estimate.
 
I’ve kept every single receipt and included all tools and extra things like epoxy, etc. Vans cost estimator plus about 10% was about right for me.

What I have noticed over the past 15 years on this site is that mission creep has become increasingly rampant. Plus, lots of “keeping up with the Jones’” as more and more aftermarket additions have become available. It’s often lots of little things that turn a $70k RV into a $100k RV. Except for panels it’s not usually one thing that blows up the price. That said, I finished in 2012, so my perspective is only accurate for that era.

My guess tho is that Vans estimator is still reasonably accurate for the disciplined builder, since every other number I’ve ever seen Vans post has always been in the ballpark performance or cost wise.
 
Van's cost estimator?

from alpinelakespilot2000 post 12/25/20 >
. . . Vans cost estimator plus about 10% was about right for me.

I was caught up with the "$70K turning into a $100K RV" thinking that the post was referring to a -14 before I noticed that Steve's signature listed his airplane a -9 with a 0-320 and fixed pitch prop.

Searched for Van's cost estimator - looks like it has been removed from Van's web site. I was interested in seeing what and how it aligned with my reality. I don't think that any sort of cost estimating tool would be able to accommodate the infinite options available or chosen by a builder.
 
As far as buying, whatever everyone else said. As far as building, the prices folks here are quoting as necessary make my head spin. I know you can spend tons, but you don't have to. I heard the same stuff when I built my house, my car, and now my plane. Don't get me wrong, you can spend a ton, but if you are practical and logical you can have a very nice completed plane for reasonable money.

Tim
 
Back
Top