Another insurance thread

So, my insurance is up for renewal, and I have a quote from my local guy as well as a quote from Travers (out of St. Louis). The story I have heard for years is that there are limited underwriters, and that only one broker at a time (i.e., representing me) can get quotes from the underwriters, so there is no ability (or advantage) to "shopping around." My present situation argues that this is not the case, because I currently have quotes from multiple brokers.

Can any of the insurance gurus out there help explain this again? It makes sense to me to get multiple quotes (good old free enterprise) to minimize my insurance costs.

Thanks,
greg

Insurance

It is the case with certain Insurance "Carriers" (the company that Insures you). There were companies that would not let anyone but "the first Agent" to get a quote.

It is not true of others such as AIG. With them you can call as many as you like as each Agent has the ability to quote it.

Having said that if the information to each Agent is the same and the Carrier is the same such as AIG then the price should be the same.

This assumes the Agent knows a little about RV's and knows what to ask in order to get the best rate.

Since it's been a few years since I did it for a living things could have changed but thats the way it was and even then there were times I gave a quote and someone else would come up with a different dollar amount.

Hope that helps?

For My Insurance Agency

Underwriters are company specific, and not universal for multiple companies for a certain product line. We even have diffirent undewriters for different areas of our state, and different product lines. Were you to shop several different companies at the same time, you should not have any promlems getting multiple quotes back.

It is likely that you will have to go to several different agencies that represent different companies to get them quickly. I am a captive agent, so I am not sure how the brokerage side would be. An you should always shop insurance on a regular basis. Especially at renewal.

It's a 'Buyers Market' right now in the Aviation Insurance biz, watch for falling rates!!

Two words for av. insurance. Aviation Solutions. My old carrier/ (broker) bump my rates hard, so I did some shopping. Aviation Solutions (broker) insured me through the same insurance company/ less premium/ same coverage/ less deductiable, to boot. I like them.
Thomas S.

Insurance Thoughts

I just got my first RV policy from Sky Smith... very good experience. I have owned a number of AC over a number of years. Often, I have felt captured by whichever broker I first spoke with. The insurance company (the underwriter, not the broker) seems to track the N number in order to not have multiple quotes from the same carrier for the same pilot/airplane renewal.

I have tricked them by using a different N number on occasion (discovered this by accident).

A few years ago, I was buying a Maule M7-235, which has an awful fleet claims record. My broker (for, maybe 7-8 airplanes over time) was prepping me for a disappointing quote and I told them that if it was too high I would just go naked (liability only). They waxed on about the awful fleet record for Maules and mentioned that one of their staff even owned a Maule. So, the quote comes in at $5000 plus some change (for a $129k hull value) and I told them to just forget it, I would skip the insurance. Amazingly, after about an hour they called back and had a new quote of $3000, which I accepted. I sold the Maule about 18 months ago - after 100 hours and zero incidents (although I will attest that it is a bear in a strong crosswind) and started looking. I found and bought an RV-7 and went to another broker - Sky Smith. Never been happier with a broker; don't feel jerked around.

You might want to try the different N number technique... it seemed to work for me in another instance.

Regards, and good luck.

Seven insurance markets are compeditively quoting RV insurance out there right now:

Britt/Paulk
Chartis
Global Aerospace
QBE
Starr
US Specialty
Avemco

All but Avemco are available only through independent brokers, of which there are hundreds. Almost all brokers have access to all of the above markets. Find a broker that you like - one that is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent - and let that broker "shop" all of these markets for you. Ask him/her to show you the quotes and terms (or declines) from each market.

After the first few renewals, your broker may choose to go to only a few of the markets - he knows from experience that, in reality, two or three are consistantly the most compeditive for your particular risk, and he may decide to only shop those. This is OK.

Talk with your broker 90 days prior to your renewal about what his renewal stragegy will be this year. Discuss what the markets are doing and if there is anything that you could do / info you could provide that might improve your situaton.

Do these things and you will be far more confident in your renewal process than simply "shopping" your insurance with multiple brokers that people on this fourm - or elsewhere - say are great, but that really can't do much more for you than anyone else - other than be helpful and offer good advice.

Insurance

Dittos to JD's comments!

Being one that has had to deal with an insurance claim, I wholeheartedly endorse Nationair/Chartis. I was very pleased with how everything was handled.

Looks like we have a Boy Scout amung us!

"Find a broker that you like - one that is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent"

Brian

Cub den leader -

I typed the first three without thinking and thought the rest were just as relevant.

Happy with Travers & Associates

I have been using Travers & Associates for several years and they have been great. They were able to save me over $3000 a year on commercial/rental insurance when I was instructing in my Cherokee 140! I used them again for my -6 insurance which is underwritten by STAR. When I cracked the mount on my plane, they were great to deal with and I had a check within a week.

JDRhodes said:

Find a broker that you like - one that is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, Reverent - and let that broker "shop" all of these markets for you.

Click to expand...

that almost sounds like the descriptions of a boy scout

edit i see i am late on the commentary

AVEMCO tries again.

I have an RV7A, 350 hours, private instrument pilot with 2400+/- TT, (only) 80+ in the last year, and the plane is hangared. One prior hail damage claim to a C150 about 7 years ago when that airplane was tied-out at an airport in Maryland, which I assume is irrelevant to underwriting. I've been happily insured by Falcon Insurance for several years of Cessnas and the 3 year life of the RV.

Just for kicks, when I submitted my insurance renewal info this January, I also submitted an application to AVEMCO. Of course, both applications had the same plane, hangar storage, and pilot experience data, and same coverage levels sought. I submitted to AVEMCO via their website, using the experimental aircraft link (I think there were three categories from which to choose). The salesguy still had in the computer a previous 2003 or 2004 unaccepted AVEMCO bid for a C182 that I sold in 2004, but no new application for 2012. He had a few questions and requested that I resubmit by fax the forms I had submitted electronically. Strike 1, or at least one half a strike.

Over a week later, I received a postal mail envelope with an additional one page (admittedly no big deal) form specifically for homebuilts. Took about 2 minutes to complete. I faxed it too. Seems that they could have collected this info on the original link that was specifically for experimentals. Now we definitely have strike 1, cumulatively speaking.

About a week later, I got a proposal/bid by email from AVEMCO. It had the C182, model year 1959, and N-number from that plane - and listed 4 seats, which we know affects premiums. Strike 2. I emailed back, asking them to check the 2012 application for the correct aircraft type, N#, and pilot/aircraft info.

About an hour later, another AVEMCO guy calls back, very professional, all apologetic, to state that this was an admin error on the cover page describing the plane, but that the rate/coverage info was correct. But then, he quizzes me on Wings program and any logged training in the last year, and proceeds to apply the advertised 10% discount. Bottom line: Annual premium $2,034, with $1,000 deductibles on the hull coverage. Yes. Strike 3. AVEMCO claims the following benefits to their policy:
- 10% credit for WINGS program participation (though it was not on the application and was quizzed in the course of correcting their error)
- $5,000 coverage for legal fees in an FAA enforcement action
- no family sublimits
---- FYI: AVEMCO also offers four installments. First installment or full payment must be made before coverage begins.

---

About the same time as the AVEMCO online application, I submitted the RENEWAL app with Falcon Insurance in Texas, using their 2 page form, via mail. Within 2 weeks (don't remember, but it was before AVEMCO bid on the C182 that I don't own), I got a call back from Falcon with three bids, all pretty close together, and I renewed the Global policy via Falcon. 10 minutes later I had a binder by email. Three days later, the full paperwork package a and a bill. Coverage begins seamlessly coverage, without requiring a rush payment. Oh yeah, the premium is $1204 with no deductible on hull.

Hard decision, huh?

Couple questions...

How many folks aren't insuring their RV's (where it isn't required)?
i.e. instead, tucking the monthly payments away in an account witih a nominal return on it and taking the gamble.

2nd question: Are any companies offering a program for guys who spend say greater than half a year away from their airplane due to work? I go to Asia for trips for about 3 mo at a time and normally know a month in advance.

Sorry to rock the boat...

RVZoomie said:

How many folks aren't insuring their RV's (where it isn't required)?
i.e. instead, tucking the monthly payments away in an account witih a nominal return on it and taking the gamble.

Click to expand...

Sure - I'll admit that I ran "bare" for a number of years (with sufficient assets to cover liability) when I was single. When we moved to our current airpark home, Liability was required, so I purchased that. When Louise started flying the -8, she wanted to know that the hull was covered so we went full on the airplane.

The bottom line is that unless the law (rare), or contract agreements (airport, HOA) require it, aircraft insurance is a CHOICE. What you do with your life does not have to be governed by the financial industry in this country.

Paul

RVZoomie said:

How many folks aren't insuring their RV's (where it isn't required)?
i.e. instead, tucking the monthly payments away in an account witih a nominal return on it and taking the gamble.

2nd question: Are any companies offering a program for guys who spend say greater than half a year away from their airplane due to work? I go to Asia for trips for about 3 mo at a time and normally know a month in advance.

Sorry to rock the boat...

Click to expand...

After a few years of full insurance, I took the gamble of liability only. I lost..........and don't have a plane to fly anymore.....

Repairing some sheetmetal here and there, is one thing. Loosing an expensive C/S prop & a subsequent engine teardown requirement, is another.............when funds are not as plentiful as they use to be.

Possibly a safety choice

I agree with Paul that insurance, and especially hull coverage, is a choice.

For me personally, I have always viewed it as "safety" insurance. There are numerous instances of individuals, all type of planes, who lost an engine and tried to "stretch" the glide to land somewhere friendlier to the aircraft itself, stalled and spun in.

I was taught, and believe we were all taught, that the best outcome for the souls on board is to land as close to the ground as possible, as slow as possible and wings level. That we should sacrifice the aircraft, if necessary, in favor of our own outcome.

That is especially hard to do when it's an aircraft you built and you don't have hull coverage.

I am flying an RV-6A that I purchased from the insurance proceeds of the hail damage settlement on my Cherokee. Without insurance coverage, I would still be flying a hail dented aircraft worth $10,000 less than two minutes before the hail storm. YMMV.

Larry Tompkins
N544WB
W52 Battle Ground WA

While I was in the hanger, building one day, this poor fella flipped his upon landing. To his credit, it was very wet and he got one wheel pulling him to the right as it sank in the grass. When he lost enough lift both the tires sank into the dirt and his Maiden flight was a complete total of his pile of bent aluminum. Fuel leaked from the wings for hours. It was a taildragger and did not have paint yet.

He was ok. His plane was a total loss.

Sad if he had liability insurance only.

Insurance is cheap. Plane value is expensive.